All in - Mordrak/Libarian + 3 DreadKnights

[War Father]

With the first strike Mordrak/Librarian combo, they're sent in to take out the priority one target. Because their all by themselves, they in turn get shot to death. So I was thinking now that Dread Knights are very good in 6th, would 3 Dread Knights teleporting over for support give the Mordrak combo new life?

 

Mordrak - 200

 

Ghost Knights - 200

 

Librarian - 160-170

 

Nemisis Dread Knight - 260 x 3

w/ Teleporter, Great Sword and Heavy Incinerator

 

So point wise the list is at 1340-1350.

 

In an 1850-2000pt game, you can still through in plenty of troops to drive over he table while your opponent fights 4 powerful units.

 

Could it work? Or is it to crazy?

 

[himkano]

I've been thinking this too.  I already play a 3 NDK shunt list, and I used to play a Mordrak list, and I have recently thought about combining them.  The problem I had with Mordrak is that you are almost giving away your Slay the Warlord point.

 

Additionally, you are paying about 600 points (Mordrak + Ghosts + Librarian) to take out one target.  My experience has been that this trade usually works out in the enemies favor.  Adding the NDK might change that, but I suggest leaving the Librarian out of this group to further balance the trade (I realize that he adds firepower and a teleport beacon, but it's a lot of eggs in a basket that is going the be charged on turn 2).

 

I am thinking of Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with Psycannon instead of Librarian.  A little cheaper, and can put a psycannon behind something anywhere - but still 3 kill points in one, small unit (although a faq might have made Mordrak and his unit 1 point - I'll look, but for now I have to go).

 

Anyway, just some thoughts based on my experience - the 3 shunting NDK have worked awesome for me, its going to take me a little more thought to find a better way to support them (I was using GKIS, but I don't think they were worth the points)

 

 

[War Father]

The extra Warlord point is a good thought. All of my games have been 5th edition and I only these last two weeks been reading the 6th edition rule book. I only have the one NDK and been wondering if I should get the other two. I glad to hear you've had success with them. I'll have to look at the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor entry to see if he's a good replacement for the Librarian.

[himkano]

Yea, I don't think 1 NDK is enough, I think they are all or nothing (I have lost 1 on the first turn, but never 2).

 

Something else to consider, your list, like mine (my blog has several recent posts with me trying to refine a shunt list) is that it is going to be vulnerable to things like 3 Heldrakes.  By the time you add troops, there isn't enough points for a Stormraven (unless you go with only 2 units of troops, or take henchmen - which I don't like for this list)

 

I really want to put a Stormraven with assault cannon, MM, but then I want my Assault cannon to have psybolt, and then I want to take sponsons to get most out of psybolt, and then I am spending 255 points on an armor 12 landraider...

 

I am exploring allies, but that means studying every army, which takes a while, so if you come up with anything, let me know.

[Justicar Enethys]

I completely understand the point you're trying to make re: the Stormraven - but it's a pet peeve of mine that I want to raise attention to. You refer to it as an, "armour 12 landraider". No it's not. At all. It's an AV 12 Flyer. One of the toughest and most durable there are as well. Something that can only be hit on 6's and requires the opposing army to have to seriously factor in when making their list (Reducing options they might otherwise have taken), thus having an impact on the game before you even started. AV12, hit on 6's - and it can make jink saves against those. Furthermore, it has Ceramite Plating which a Land Raider doesn't - further increasing its durability against the best anti armour weapons in the game. Yes it's harder to hide/position to minimise damage than a Land Raider - but that same exposure means it's getting it's weapons where they need to be.

On top of being harder than it's being given credit for, it is an absolute beast of a weapon delivery platform. Mount the Multi Melta in the nose and there's no target on the board you can't get into melta range of. Assault Cannons on top? No worries - getting to 24" with this guy is not an issue. You want the Hurricane Bolters? Awesome. You can get into range and unleash a veritable torrent of Heavy Bolter equivalent fire as an almost afterthought. Mindstrikes are the cherry on top. Of course there are other weapon combos which people swear by - but this is the combo you mention and the combo I know and love. I'm currently running without Psybolts, but that's merely a desperate lack of points elsewhere in my list. Given 30 points spare anywhere they'd be my first addition.

In a recent Apocalypse game, my SR killed a Stormsword tank and all the men inside it. That exploded and killed off 9 Necron Warriors in turn and immobilised a nearby LRBT. In addition - my SR took out 4 squadroned Land Speeders and 2 Vendettas (One with an insane burst from Hurricane Bolters into it's rear armour). I didn't see ANY of the Land Raiders in that game being anywhere near as useful. Can SR's be fragile and shot down in one turn? Of course they can. But then most Land Raiders don't last much longer against me - and I have to invest FAR less points into my army to be able to take out one of those or at least be prepared for it's threat ...

Finally - by having a Stormraven you've taken a huge step to having some AA protection in your list - which it's sorely lacking in its current incarnation.

I say all this to hopefully try and give you a bit more optimism/justification in taking the SR. You aren't buying a more fragile version of the Land Raider. You are buying - for the same price (Actually 10 points cheaper if the LR takes it's Multi-Melta upgrade) - one of the toughest flyers out there with an ability to put whatever weapons you choose wherever you choose. My SR has done me proud and my lists above 1,500 always incorporate it now.

[himkano]

Do you use psybolt too?  You are of course right about it being a flyer - my perception is skewed because most of my non-tournament games are played agaisnt necrons and orks, and lootas and necron warrios with gaus, in the numbers fielded, rarely have a hard time shooting down my Storm Raven (I have included them in several lists).

 

In tournaments I am underwhelmed because most people locally don't play a lot of vehicles, so once I pop the flyer, and maybe 1 tank, I basically have a 205 point auto cannon.  When the enemy doesn't bring a flyer or a tank, I am paying 205 points for an auto cannon, and getting nothing else out of it (this is why I am thinking of adding sponsons).

 

Don't get me wrong, I know we need anti-air, and the Stormraven is good for that, it's just a lot of points - of course part of my problem might also be that I am stuck with the mentality that if you are going to take something tough, you better take 2, and then its 1/4 of my army.  That could be a personal problem, left over from 5th

[Justicar Enethys]

I always use Pysbolt Ammo and pop on the sponsons whenever I can - though in my recent lists, they get shaved more often than not.

I understand your drama with the enemy not bringing many vehicles to 'justify' the cost. However - even in games where you've popped a flyer and a tank, the Stormraven has usually proven its worth and can continue to contribute - even if it only racks up the points slowly. In addition to what it kills, is the effect it has on other forces and how they have to factor it in. If the lootas take a turn and pummel it with shots, just remember that your troop units which didn't have to eat that fire. In my lists it has a lot relevance as if something big and nasty or a unit with muchos dakka decides to go for it - my expensive terminators have less saves to make - and ultimately they're the units winning the games for me.

As for its use once it's out of vehicle targets, it still has plenty to offer in my opinion. Of course, this is where the Hurricane Bolters come into their own (Though I am partial to using them for rear shots on other flyers too) - however the Assault Cannon is still fantastic too. The SR isn't a 205 point Autocannon at all at this point. It is a twin linked Assault Cannon with rending that is S7 if you buy the Psybolt Ammo. The reduced range isn't too much of an issue as it's mounted on a flyer. And that aside - you have TWICE the shots, RE-ROLLABLE, that REND. And that is in addition to your Mindstrike Missiles and your Multi Melta. A 205 point Autocannon is far from what you have after priority targets are down. I can see why you'd be cautious if that's all you see it as - but if that is all you see it is - you aren't looking closely enough at what it can do.

Lastly - priority targets. If your local meta doesn't have many vehicles in it - then fair enough and you must do what is right for your area. However - there are pretty much always some vehicles and some flyers, and even if there aren't - or they're all gone, there are big characters and Monstrous Creatures out there as well as tougher troops that are begging to get spanked by a Multi Melta or ripped apart by a TL Psycannon (AssCan w. Psybolt Ammo). Mindstrike Missiles LURVE Psykers as well, and at worst become frag missiles. Either way - there's always targets appropriate for what you're packing. Crank this up to 11 if you have Psybolt Ammo Hurricane Bolters

Depending on what else you field, a second may very well not be necessary. I haven't fielded my 2nd Stormraven in over 20 games and while it's nice to bring it out for Apocalypse, I can't see myself using it in regular games in the foreseeable future. And my local gaming group plays at 2,500 where two could be fielded with ease.

[jeffersonian000]

Oddly enough, i've been playing around with my Stormraven's loadout since adding it to my Ghostwing list, and have had excellent results with the cheaper "sniper" configuration of Missile Launcher and Twin-linked Lascannons. I can dog fight other flyers, pop tanks, and drop blast markers on hordes, all in one 230pt package. As a support for Mordrak and crew, it fills in for those fiddly bits my army normally lacks. Of course, to shoehorn in a Stormraven, I've been swapping out my 2nd GKT squad for GKSS.

 

However, this thread has got me thinking about adding monsters to mr list!

 

SJ