Ranged Support Allies for GKs?

[AnImA8]

A friend of mine suggested to me today that--for a non-Henchmen army--GK's need allies for ranged support, even with Psyflemen. His point was that lack of AP 2- on the Psyflemen makes them almost exclusively designed to strip Hull Points, and even with that in mind they're really only good at taking out low to medium AV transports in this way. Their own lack of durability doesn't help their case either.

Dreadknights aren't really a substitute for this ranged firepower since PTs make them cost almost as much as 2 Psyflemen, and even then their Assault-based reach still doesn't compare to the Psyflemen's 48". Land Raiders are equally prohibitive in cost and are usually dead in the water with all the melta, lance, and gauss out there anyhow.

So what do y'all think? Is there a case to be had for Godhammer LRs or Teleporting DKs? Or is my friend probably right that we ought to start considering Guard or Space Wolves for more ranged support?

[Gentlemanloser]

NDKs aren't ranged support.  If you want that, then Guard or Tau would be your best bet.

 

NDKs are great, but you'll be using them more agressively.  If that makes sense.

[IndigoJack]

A friend of mine suggested to me today that--for a non-Henchmen army--GK's need allies for ranged support, even with Psyflemen. His point was that lack of AP 2- on the Psyflemen makes them almost exclusively designed to strip Hull Points, and even with that in mind they're really only good at taking out low to medium AV transports in this way. Their own lack of durability doesn't help their case either.

I use a combination of psyfleman and psybacks and other than hammer and anvil deployment, I haven't really had issues with range. Psyfleman are good at far more than just stripping hull points. The reliable high RoF combined with high strength will do a good job of hurting even MEQ. The same applies to the psyback.

 

There really isn't an issue with pure GKs lack of low AP weaponry. They more than make up for it with mass firepower. In fact, high volume of fire is more reliable than low volume, low AP weapons. This is due to law of averages. The more dice you roll, the closer you come to rolling average. Simply put, low volume, low AP weapons have a higher standard deviation than high volume, high AP weapons. This means that when you fire low volume weapons you have a greater chance of statistical outliers. Have you ever had a game where that plasma gun (or other low volume weapon) always missed 1/2 its shots, even though you're BS4? That's because of the higher standard deviation of low volume weapons. When building a list, especially a competitive one, one of your goals should be to minimize randomness wherever possible. This means in general, high volume, high AP weapons are going to perform better than low volume, low AP weapons.

 

I want to be clear though, I'm not saying that low volume, low AP weapons are bad, just that a pure GK army doesn't really need them.

[AnImA8]

Gentlemanloser, on 07 May 2013 - 12:36, said:

NDKs aren't ranged support. If you want that, then Guard or Tau would be your best bet.

 

NDKs are great, but you'll be using them more agressively. If that makes sense.

Yea, the suggestion wasn't that NDK's are ranged support. What I was getting at with talking about NDK's is that they can destroy the same types of targets, and that their "threat radius" was comparable with the PT upgrade. You're right though to point out that there is a difference between a highly mobile (PT), short-ranged (Assault 2d6") attack platform, and a low-mobility (move 6"), long-ranged (48") attack platform in terms of behavior.

 

IndigoJack, on 07 May 2013 - 13:30, said:

I use a combination of psyfleman and psybacks and other than hammer and anvil deployment, I haven't really had issues with range. Psyfleman are good at far more than just stripping hull points. The reliable high RoF combined with high strength will do a good job of hurting even MEQ. The same applies to the psyback.

 

There really isn't an issue with pure GKs lack of low AP weaponry. They more than make up for it with mass firepower. In fact, high volume of fire is more reliable than low volume, low AP weapons. This is due to law of averages. The more dice you roll, the closer you come to rolling average. Simply put, low volume, low AP weapons have a higher standard deviation than high volume, high AP weapons. This means that when you fire low volume weapons you have a greater chance of statistical outliers. Have you ever had a game where that plasma gun (or other low volume weapon) always missed 1/2 its shots, even though you're BS4? That's because of the higher standard deviation of low volume weapons. When building a list, especially a competitive one, one of your goals should be to minimize randomness wherever possible. This means in general, high volume, high AP weapons are going to perform better than low volume, low AP weapons.

 

I want to be clear though, I'm not saying that low volume, low AP weapons are bad, just that a pure GK army doesn't really need them.

I'm glad that I took Stats classes now so I know what you're talking about haha. :)

[number6]

IMHO, the GKs can compete just fine without allies, though your analysis that they are limited in certain tactical areas is correct. (Additionally, pure GK codex armies struggle to compete against heavy flyer opponents.)

 

IMHO, the best allies for GKs are Tau. They can provide significant long-range firepower that is both high STR and low AP, as well as give GKs the ability to shoot at flyers with ease.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Tau or IG are our top picks. We handle melee, monsters and infantry just fine, its vehicles, flyers and Turn 1 shooting we lack for the most part. 

 

IG bring an additional advantage over Tau, in that for the price of a Strike squad (or thereabouts), they can bring a horde of dudes that either blob up (in 'Purge') or can be spammed onto objectives cheaply and effectively. Tau have terrible Troops.