Land Raiders or Stormravens?

[BAHERSH]

Hey guys, I'm going to pick up either 2 Stormravens or 2 Land Raiders for my 1850 list. Which unit do you prefer and why?

 

I like the Raven models better, and will probably purchase those.  If I get the Stormravens, I'll also get a dread for it to carry, otherwise I'll find somewhere else to spend the points.

 

I should also mention that I don't run any other mech for my army. All my units are on JP's or Bikes, so they're very mobile (aside from the DC, which I will place in LR or Raven).

[Alyssis]

Most people prefer Ravens.. They have an awesome mobility, decent transports, and the fact that you can carry a dreadnought, that can assault from it is awesome..

But most of all, they pack insane firepower.. If you are to use DC, having a squad of 9-12 + a reclusiarch, or even Lemartes, seeing as the raven can carry jump infantry as well, you can also add in a DC dreadnought,, Turn 2, you most likely(hopefully :P) come in, boosts 36 inches ahead, and the next turn you go down to hove mode, and your dc jumps out and kicks some serious ass..!

Granted, the land raider has its uses as well.. But its expensive, its slow, and doesnt have nearly the same firepower that the raven has..!

Go for 2 ravens, have dc and a dc dread in one, and a nice pack of terminators in the other..! And enjoy..! ;)

[BAHERSH]

Thanks for the quick response! It definitely confirms what I wanted to do. I was planning to get one fully loaded with DC and a DC Dread. Think I'm gonna and paint that Raven black

The other one was just going to hold some scouts to eventually drop them off at an objective and most provide cover fire in the mean time. Do you highly recommend termies? I know 2+/3++ is sweet, but I was going for a more shooty BA list with the DC as the exception.

[TheSauce]

Ravens are awesome, but they have their problems.

 

First, they're not always going to show up. This can be mitigated by a comms relay (70 points for Aegis and Comms - totally worth it), but if both stormravens don't show up turn two, you're going to be hurting, as you're pretty much playing 1000 points against 1850 for two or three (or even 4) turns.

 

Second, they're HUGE targets. They're expensive, and you can throw enough in them to make them priority 1 targets for your opponent. And if they blow up you can pretty much say goodbye to anything inside that isn't a TH/SS terminator (or a dread, they take an auto-pen, but that doesn't always mean the end of them), as they all take S10 hits with no armor saves.

 

That said, they are great models, and I run two (with aegis and comms relay) in my 1500+ plus lists. They're amazing air defense, and rock at destroying both infantry (with hurricane bolter sponsons) and tanks (TL MM and the S8 AP1 missiles). And I love the idea of my blood angels dropping from the sky and calling in air support.

 

I would say LR are a little more survivable in today's meta (you see a lot of S7 spam and skyfire, especially with new tau), but lance and gauss weapons are nasty against it, and it's pretty slow. Both are very solid options, but the Stormraven feels a bit fluffier, at least with how I want to play my BA.

[BAHERSH]

Ravens are awesome, but they have their problems.

 

Second, they're HUGE targets. They're expensive, and you can throw enough in them to make them priority 1 targets for your opponent. And if they blow up you can pretty much say goodbye to anything inside that isn't a TH/SS terminator (or a dread, they take an auto-pen, but that doesn't always mean the end of them), as they all take S10 hits with no armor saves.

 

Could they function in a PURE support role? I could throw JP's on the DC and have them advance (expensive, I know) with the rest of my JP/ Bike army for the price of the DC dread. I'm not the kind of player who likes to put all his chips in one bag.

[Sanguis militis]

I also started running 2 ravens and easily prefer then to landraiders. As far using them solely in a support role, I actually tried that for the first time a few nights ago. No squads inside and I used them to destroy two hell drakes before they could start harassing my ground troops.. Their TL MM, s8 ap 1 missiles, and depending on preference either a TL Las or asscannon put out a nice stream of fire into one target and will down most fliers in one salvo of firing. As said before I believe, the hurricane sponsons are definitely worth the upgrade to add some nice rapid fire against blobs of infantry especially if you chose the asscannon too to add to that anti infantry firepower.

 

Putting squads or dreads inside them are great since they are assault vehicles but it can be very risky especially if the enemy has anything with skyfire+interceptor. There's a good chance you'll lose one of the ravens literally as soon it comes on the table, along with nearly everyone inside. But if you bring them on empty as fire support atleast one will get through the interceptor shooting, usually meaning atleast one target will be toasted as soon as the surviving raven makes it into combat.

 

Try them out and see how you like them. Personally, I never right a list without atleast one raven in it.. They are just integral to the blood angels to not take them in my opinion.

[BAHERSH]

Sweet, yeah its a lot of points to risk getting shot down before 1 turn of return fire. But I can deal with losing 230 pts (just not that + the dc + dc dreadnought).

 

Also, I feel like they're less of a threat if my DC are charging forward on JP's (usually the primary target). Plus I won't have to put them in a risky position for the assault phase. I'll try them out for sure. Thanks!

[Rommel44]

Personally, I am not a huge fan of flyers in general, as although the SR is very nice, particularly the BA one, many peopel at my store have the means to shoot them down very quickly. Plus, it is also VERY expensive to take, and it hurts really bad to have it shot down early, or not even come on in turn 2, which by then usually your opponent has ruun you off the table. I like LR's for there reliability, and each varient has a role to play depending on which opponent I am facing (currently have ALL of the weapons for all of the varients, all magnitized for the easy switch ). Although I have only 1x, it has done great for me everytime I have used it, however more often then not I find myself running the standard Land Raider, due to a lot of IG players at my store with a wall of Armor 14 LRBT's, and I have lost count how many tanks my LR has sniped every game. Besides that, the Land Radier Redeemer is still my favoirte, as I run it with a Squad of 11x DC and Gabriel Seth, and this unit just wipes everyone off the table. Its quite hilarious to watch your opponents face as they see there army getting demolished right in front of there eyes.

[Shuggnuggath]

What about one of each? Should be quite flexible.

 

In my opinion spamming begets spamming. Once your regular opponents are familiar with your brand of spam they will naturally adjust their lists to counter it.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

What about one of each? Should be quite flexible.

 

In my opinion spamming begets spamming. Once your regular opponents are familiar with your brand of spam they will naturally adjust their lists to counter it.

I found that the other day, had a 4000 pt battle vs gaurd & Tau and they both spamed anti air, luckly i brought mass armor to the fight so they wasted a shed load of points which pretty much handed me the game, made me smile.

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

Try to examine my point of view as I don't have two Stomravens, but I do have two LRs, one a LR and the other a LRC.

 

Both have the same benefits, but different weapon load outs. Both also can get a MM increasing their threat range.

 

The LR can act as an anti-tank first and anti-infantry second. The TL LCs are a bane to anything. I like to send a DC in this vehicle as it can destroy a tank and then let the DC mop up.

 

The LRC can act as anti-infantry first and anti-tank second. The Hurricane Bolters can really tear apart infantry along with the AC. The AC can take down armor, but I don't like to relie on luck. I tend to place a full Sternguard or squad in here so at a glance of pure firepower ...

12 inches you have 32 Bolter (6 TL) shots, 4 AC (4 TL) shots, and 1 MM shot (Optional Librarian with Prescience or Poison Sternguard)

24 inches you have 16 Bolter (6 TL) shots, 4 AC (4 TL) shots, and 1 MM shot (Optional Librarian with Prescience or Poison Sternguard)

(+/-) a Bolter shot if Sergeant does not carry a bolter.

 

I don't use Terminators, but they could do the same I suppose. However I tend to look for raw firepower causing an opponent to roll multiple dice as much as possible.

 

 

Another way to look is consider your actions if one arrives late or if one is destroyed, what is your intended backup plan.

[Squirrelloid]

I really like LRRs.  S6 AP3 templates are incredible, and you can pack an Assault Cannon and Multi-Melta for anti-armor should you need it. Also, the 12 capacity is nice, because it means you can run a character with hammernators, or a full assault squad and a character - no need to give up special weapons or limit your character deployment options.

 

LRC and regular LRs don't impress me as much.
-The regular LR's HB doesn't synergize with the Lascannons at all, whereas if it had an assault cannon it would feel like a more solid tank.  (It's hard to get both lascannons at the same target, so generally you end up PotMSing the 2nd las, and the HB might as well not be there).  And if there isn't valuable armor to shoot at, its not going to justify its point cost.  Edit: Also, capacity 10 is annoying and limits its power as a squad delivery mechanism.
-LRC feels like you're paying too much because a lot of what it does is more than you need. Its troop capacity is too high for most armies to really use (whereas the redeemer is just right), and its weapons are too wimpy in my opinion.  Hurricane Bolters can't compete with either other LR sponsons.  Scoring enough infantry kills with Hurricane Bolters to justify the crusaders pricetag is *hard*, even if you do have an assault cannon to help.

 

And to top it all off, the LRR is *cheaper* than the other two, so you can take that Multi-Melta upgrade and not feel like you're overspending.

 

Now, if they made the LRC *fast*, I'd use it in an instant.  That would justify its cost to me.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Buy 2 landraiders, make both!

[BAHERSH]

Hmmm, all of that is a lot to consider... My main concern for both is they pretty much HAVE to function as my main source of anti-flyers/ heavy support. I will have some attack bikes to help out, but everyone else is geared for CC. Perhaps one of each might be the way to go (I only really need to use one for transport capabilities).

[Shuggnuggath]

I really like the Redeemer, for all the reasons Squirrelliod mentioned. 

 

I'm taking a Redeemer and a Stormraven in my 1750 list.