Honor guard, who fields them, And how ?

[Deamons Redeemer]

Who fields a unit or units of honor guard? And how do you use them?

[JamesI]

Mine is jumpy with 4 Plasma guns.  But I tend not to run them often.

[Taranis]

Agreed. Shooty. 4 plasma guns or 4 melta guns. And yes not often fielded by me either. Dante and no scatter is reliable but expensive.

[Midnightmare]

I used to run the 4xPlas but they haven't been run for a while. The problem is they are expensive for 5 man squad (the priest can be targeted nowadays as the only IC) I did experiment with 4xMelta and Flamer for a few gamea too as these are the same points as a Plasmagun, and they actually did pretty good (you wouldn't want to charge them!)

[Leonaides]

But the priest isn't an icin an honour guard...

[Fionnrua]

The priest iis hidden. I normally wouldn't take them melee but as shooty on a 2+ hunting spree; 4 plasma guns have earned their points back for me a few times by taking pot shots at termies & characters.

Not to mention overwatch plasma with a div libby if they get charged...plus they aren't too shabby in CC either.

[Midnightmare]

Sorry my bad - Priest (noviate) is not an independant character true, but he is a character for challenges/sniping purposes (yet still unable to purchase additional equipment). So how I meant it is he is not 'hidden' as such.

[Squirrelloid]

+1 shooty.  I could even see 4x Flamer, although plasma or melta is better.  Dante is basically essential to running them well, though.

 

@Midnight Runner: The Sanguinary Novitiate is a not a character at all.  He has no armory access and is never called a character.  He's just a model with a different profile in the unit.

 

(The only definition of 'character' in the game is on p63: "... represent squad leaders".  The Sanguinary Novitiate is not a squad leader, and thus not a character).

[Quixus]

Midnight Runner, on 13 May 2013 - 15:49, said:

Sorry my bad - Priest (noviate) is not an independant character true, but he is a character for challenges/sniping purposes (yet still unable to purchase additional equipment). So how I meant it is he is not 'hidden' as such.

Where is that in the rules?

[Brother Maikel]

(The only definition of 'character' in the game is on p63: "... represent squad leaders". The Sanguinary Novitiate is not a squad leader, and thus not a character).

The full text of that quote is "Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry." (emphasis mine) The quote is making a generalization about characters (and is correct... most characters are squad leaders of some sort), not laying down the only circumstances under which a model can be a character. The actual rules are under the relevant unit entries in either the codex (for 6th edition codices) or the reference at the back of the rulebook.

 

A Sanguinary Novitiate is listed as Infantry (character) in the reference at the back of the BRB (pg 410).  As such he can be challenged (pg 64), gets precision shots/strikes when you roll a '6' for his attack rolls (pg 63) and can Look Out, Sir! wounds he is assigned, though because he is not an independent character, he does so on a 4+ rather than a 2+ (pgs 16, 26, 39).

[Midnightmare]

Beat me too it ^^^ By definition, the company champion would be a character too, although I haven't got my rulebook on me at the minute.

[Squirrelloid]

 

(The only definition of 'character' in the game is on p63: "... represent squad leaders". The Sanguinary Novitiate is not a squad leader, and thus not a character).

The full text of that quote is "Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry." (emphasis mine) The quote is making a generalization about characters (and is correct... most characters are squad leaders of some sort), not laying down the only circumstances under which a model can be a character. The actual rules are under the relevant unit entries in either the codex (for 6th edition codices) or the reference at the back of the rulebook.

 

A Sanguinary Novitiate is listed as Infantry (character) in the reference at the back of the BRB (pg 410).  As such he can be challenged (pg 64), gets precision shots/strikes when you roll a '6' for his attack rolls (pg 63) and can Look Out, Sir! wounds he is assigned, though because he is not an independent character, he does so on a 4+ rather than a 2+ (pgs 16, 26, 39).

 

Funny, I would have concluded that the characters who weren't squad leaders were the independent characters.  (Ie, not all characters are squad leaders is obvious, because some don't come with squads!)  Because the problem is that the section on characters doesn't otherwise define who would be a character, so you're left with two types of characters according to the character rules: Squad leaders and models with the Independent Character rule.

 

It's unclear to me whether the character designations in the BRB actually take precedence over the rules in codices according to their own rules, given codices > BRB when they disagree.  They really need to modify that to account for publication date if they're going to release new editions every couple of years.  (Given how long-term the hobby is, an edition which actually lasted long enough for every army to get a new codex would be nice).

[Brother Maikel]

The BRB also specifically mentions Mephiston as a character, who is neither a Squad Leader or an Independent Character, but rather is a single model unit.  Furthermore there is no definition of "squad leader" in the BRB.

 

The BRB vs Codex discrepancy is taken care of by the Amendments section of the Blood Angels FAQ document, where it states we should use the Reference section of the rulebook for Unit Types and Hull Points.

[Quixus]

Thanks, I don't know how I could have missed that. Too bad for the Sanguinary Initiate.

[Brother Maikel]

Thanks, I don't know how I could have missed that. Too bad for the Sanguinary Initiate.

 

Honestly I'd say the Novitiate came out ahead in that change.  True he can be challenged, but he can always refuse the challenge and all that happens is you lose out on a pair of WS4 S4 AP - attacks.  In exchange he gets a 4+ Look Out Sir! against whatever wounds he would have otherwise taken, his attacks (when they happen) can be precision, and you have the option of challenging when it would be advantageous (such as when trying to tie up a big nasty CC character for a couple of rounds).

 

Plus it provides more incentive to take the Blood Champion.  20 pts for a WS5 Power Sword/Axe with a bonus 6++, and character status?

[terminatorAM]

For those of you that have used the plasma squad, do you use them as a suicide unit that DoAs in or start on the board as a support unit and use the priest's abilities to help close by squads by providing FNP?

[appiah4]

For those of you that have used the plasma squad, do you use them as a suicide unit that DoAs in or start on the board as a support unit and use the priest's abilities to help close by squads by providing FNP?

 

One of those methods fails to make any use of a 50pt IC you get for, basically, free of charge.  That option is the poorer choice.  I'll let you decide :)

[Fionnrua]

Thanks for the info on the Novitiate!

 

As for DoA plasma HG...I really wouldn't. I like to think of them as play-makers; poking and prodding, softening things up for the harder units to charge. They do this much better when they're on the table, turn 1.

 

Manouverability, mid range stopping power with a built in priest...they open up so many tactical options.

 

Personally, I take HG exclusively for plasma for the sole reason of popping 2+ armour; the priest is just a bonus.

During turn 3 or 4 they still have the manouverability to get stuck in whereever needed.

 

They were so good for me in this role that I actually thought they were overkill and gave them a back seat for a while.

 

I play friendly matches ofc ^.^