The Hammer And Scalpel: How To Ally With Guard

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Been meaning to write this for a while. H-h-here I go....

 

 

General principles when Allying: 

 

It may sound obvious, but we all forget it at times. Don't Ally units in that replicate what you could do better with existing in-faction units. Example;

 

- Henchmen have a variety of special weapon options, storm bolters as a base firepower option, and have access to Chimeras

- IG Veterans have a variety of special weapon options, lasguns as a base, and have access to Chimeras

 

Both are solid choices, but which you take is going to depend on what primary you have and who is being Allied. Obviously, we can buff Henchmen, but we can't buff Veterans (due to 'Convenience restrictions). Vice versa, we can't Order Henchmen, but we can Order Veterans. In a choice between two similar units, take the one you can support better. Synergy is how armies function. 

 

 

Imperial Guard Dating Profile:

 

Stats:

+ Cheap, plentiful infantry

+ Underpriced Flyers

+ Cheap tanks

+ Solid in-faction buffs through the Orders system

- Melee defense consist of tarpitting or sacrificing squads to delay assaults on important stuff

- Slow, static style for the most part 

- Individual squads boast some of the worst stats in the game, and their base firepower of S3 is a drawback in firefights

 

Likes:

+ Strong melee units

+ Durable units

+ Anti-psyker

Dislikes:

- Other T3 weaksauce

- Overpriced stuff that eats up points that could be spent on more cheap infantry or tanks

 

Knights In Charge:

 

So, as a Knight player, what exactly are you looking for in an Allied IG detachment?

 

HQ:

 

Creed:

Still haven't FAQ'd his Genius (IIRC), so its like a free 'Grand Strategy' buff but its always Scouts. Other than that, he's a cost effective way to get multiple Orders out...and that's about it. He's still not terribly expensive, but I'd look for him in a Primary IG+Knight Allies build or in larger games. He really wants a Chimera to hide in. Astropath is a solid choice, as is Master of Ruse. 

 

Primaris Psyker:

Oooh boy...Telepathy is a strong choice, especially for the replacement Primaris power to the normal 'S6 random hits' shooting he can do. When combined with a PSB, you can delete units at will. He's also quite cheap, which is the motto of the IG. 

 

Generic Command squad:

For when you can't afford Creed...quad plasma gun, Chimera, Astropath/Ruse Master, call it a day. 

 

Lord Commissar: His aura makes him more cost-effective than multiple squad Commissars. He's also alright in melee with a powerfist+power sword combo. Plus his Stealth pants still work unless they nerfed that in the FAQ. 

 

Elites:

 

Mostly a wasteland of failure, but there is two gems worth considering;

 

PSB:

These guys really start humming with the Primaris attached. A Chimera is mandatory, they're pathetically easy to kill and their abilities require being in the mid-field to be in range. 'Weaken Resolve' is already an insane power, but when combined with the Primaris Telepathy, you can delete units at will. 

 

Marbo:

He's the Imperial Assassins we should've had. Even if he just lands, throws a demo-charge then dies, he's easily worth the points. 

 

Troops:

 

The bread and butter of IG, and one of the two main reasons they're the top-tier army of 40k (just on their own, nevermind as an Ally). Again, there are still duds even here, but two options are very good;

 

Infantry Platoon:

The mandatory PCS squad is annoying. You generally want to keep them bare-bones, hide them somewhere and give Orders to Da Blob. If you'd like to achieve anything else with them, quad flamers and a Chimera can be amusingly effective and still dirt-cheap. 

 

Onto the real star of the show, the Infantry squad. Your weapon options are going to reflect how ambitious you want to be with them. If Combined Squads is your idea, flamers to soften up enemy charges and power weapon spam on Sergeants is the way to go. If you wanna do any actual shooting with them, plasma gun+autocannon spam either in seperate squads or in Blob works great. Remember, you only need the 1 squad with Commissar per Blob, his effects spread to all when they combine. Stubborn Ld9 and another power sword dude is a solid investment, especially for the melee tarpit Blob. 

 

To Blob Or Not To Blob, That Is The Query: It's gonna come down to personal preference and game scenarios. As a rule of thumb, its easier to Order a single big unit or two big units, than a bunch of little ones. Blobs also can absorb alpha strikes and melee units, and can last longer on objectives. Individual squads have the freedom of not wasting firepower (ie you keep shooting then switch targets with remaining squads once your target dies), plus they can gum up assault angles and cover more ground. Multiple squads can also take multiple objectives, which is a big focus in 6th. 

 

Special Weapon teams are mainly brought for flamers and demo-charges. They're like Veterans only even more suicidal. Load into Vendettas, drop out to nuke things. 

Heavy Weapon teams are useful, but ultimately you can shield your heavy weapons better in an Infantry Blob. They're okay for extra autocannon or lascannon if you'd rather have a melee tarpit Blob. Orders make them a lot better obviously. 

 

Veterans:

In the context of a Knight list, they're not as good or as spammable as Henchmen. In a primary IG list though, they're solid gold as fire support and Vendetta/Valkyrie cargo. Plasma/melta and 'Demolitions' for meltabombs+demo charge is the usual story, along with a Chimera to get them alive to their target (assuming they aren't being air-cav'd in). 

 

The Rest:

Concripts are terrible

Penal Legion are terrible

The SC upgrades to the PCS are all expensive and marginal. Chenkov is hilarious but once you snipe him the endless Conscripts stop. 

 

Fast Attack:

 

You're only getting one of these usually, so it is a bit of a no-brainer;

 

Vendetta Squadron: Take 2-3 if you can, 1 is really not enough. They do everything you want but kill infantry, which is what everything else does well. Hover Mode is generally only for dropping off Special Weapon teams or Veterans, stay Zooming the rest of the time. 

 

Heavy Support:

 

Again, as you only get one choice usually, the unit you want is obvious;

 

Leman Russ Squadron: The basic battle cannon is fine. I find adding plasma cannon sponsons a worthwhile investment, you camp a lot with these tanks and AP2 fire support on a cheap, durable AV14 platform is pretty solid. Pask is a trap, you quickly end up spending Land Raider price. Demolishers can be cool with 'Genius' Outflanking. 

 

Manticore is also an option. It doesn't come in squadrons sadly, and like most things IG its better in multiples. Worth considering though, S10 blast is nasty as hell in 6th. 

 

 

What Should You Take With It?

 

Now it time to look at how your list will compliment the IG you've brought. 

 

HQ:

Coteaz:

Amazing. Envied by so many other armies. Take him. 

 

I will mention he is an SC, and thus some may not wish to include him on those grounds. Nothing wrong with generic Inquisitors either (cheap 'Prescience' spam is great), but the Troops unlock is very compelling. Scoring Henchmen are so good they compete with IG Veterans. So yeah...best 100pts you'll ever spend. 

 

Grandmaster:

Even post-FAQ nerf, 'Grand Strategy' is still solid gold, and he's a melee powerhouse with a nemesis hammer. His cost may be an issue though, so carefully consider whether his scoring unlock is worth the price of admission. 

 

Elites:

Paladins:

They're still a strong unit, although a Raven or 'Outflank' to get them into position is probably a good idea. Grandmaster fits them like a glove. 

 

Purifiers:

Another unit that loves a Grandmaster handing them scoring status, these guys are a little vulnerable in the world of Heldrakes and Riptides. IG have shooting covered, so perhaps a quad incinerator+hammer spam squad in a Raven. Remember, Combat Squads can share transports now. 

 

Troops:

Henchmen for cheap Razorspam, to compliment the horde of infantry the IG are supplying. You can even sub out the heavy weapons you'd take on IG for Razors instead. Las/plas is a solid choice, as is psybolt-boosted twin-AC. 

 

The alternative is a cheap plasma servitor unit for your 2nd Troops slot (attach Coteaz), then Terminator blob. Termie blob compliments the IG blob very well. 

 

Fast Attack:

Vendettas > Ravens. Only take a Raven if you really need its transport capacity. 

 

Heavy Support:

DK's are the only thing IG can't replicate better. DK's can also act as supremely mobile support for the Vendetta+cargo assault on the enemy backline. Dealing with an MC and a couple of plasma/melta squads landing in your backline is very problematic to many lists. 

 

 

Now, needless to say, Knight things are expensive. Balancing how much to invest in either side is going to come down to your playstyle and preferences. There really is no netlist to this, it completely depends on what you wanna do. Some general rules of thumb though;

 

HQ: Several cheap HQ's > 1-2 expensive ones

Elites: To a minimum, they're utility and support mostly

Troops: Lions share of points

Fast Attack: Vendettas are solid gold investments, but don't go overboard or cut them if you are low on Troops/scoring

Heavy Support: Same as FA, don't let spending here detract from Troops

 

 

Hopefully people find this useful. Comment below on things you'd like to see added, or things you think need fixing. I've put some sections below for sample army lists and cool strategies.

 

 

Sample Knight+IG builds;

 

Sample IG+Knight builds;

 

Strategies and Tactics:

[IndigoJack]

Nice write-up. IG can be a daunting codex to those whom have never played it. It's good to review which units GKs would work best with. That said, I have a few minor disagreements.

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Heavy Support:

 

Again, as you only get one choice usually, the unit you want is obvious;

 

Leman Russ Squadron: The basic battle cannon is fine. I find adding plasma cannon sponsons a worthwhile investment, you camp a lot with these tanks and AP2 fire support on a cheap, durable AV14 platform is pretty solid. Pask is a trap, you quickly end up spending Land Raider price. Demolishers can be cool with 'Genius' Outflanking.

I don't quite agree with this. While the LRBT is a solid choice, you shouldn't overlook the humble manticore. S10 barrage is great at removing other blob squads while hiding out of LoS.

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Vendettas > Ravens. Only take a Raven if you really need its transport capacity.

I also don't quite agree with this. While the vendetta is a (mostly) better AA choice than a stormraven, the stormraven has better survivability in that it's AV12 all the way around and is immune to lucky melta. Additionally, the stormraven's turret weapons allow you a better second chance at taking out other flyers. Additionally, a twin-linked skyfire MM is fantastic at tearing up most other flyers. Meanwhile, getting on the vendetta's flank isn't too difficult and can prevent a lascannon from firing, therefore reducing its efficiency. I'm not saying that the stormraven is better than the vendetta, but I don't believe it's a clear cut choice.

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Troops:

Henchmen for cheap Razorspam, to compliment the horde of infantry the IG are supplying. You can even sub out the heavy weapons you'd take on IG for Razors instead. Las/plas is a solid choice, as is psybolt-boosted twin-AC.

IMO, the psyback is the best razorback choice available to GKs. It's cheap, tears up infantry and light AV. I've even used mine to ping hull points off flyers.

Quote

Heavy Support:

DK's are the only thing IG can't replicate better. DK's can also act as supremely mobile support for the Vendetta+cargo assault on the enemy backline. Dealing with an MC and a couple of plasma/melta squads landing in your backline is very problematic to many lists.

No mention of the psyfleman? I'm not sure there is a way IG can reproduce that kind of efficiency.

[Justicar Enethys]

Reclusiarch Darius, on 15 May 2013 - 01:15, said:

HQ:

Coteaz:

He's in your list. It's not even up for debate. Even compared to IG HQ's (which are cheap as chips), he's still underpriced.

Fast Attack:

Vendettas > Ravens. Only take a Raven if you really need its transport capacity.

Heavy Support:

DK's are the only thing IG can't replicate better.

Nice effort typing all that up mate. I fear you may have set yourself quite the task here as the room for expansion on this is immense! For saying how there's no net list for this and how it's down to the individual player, you make some sweeping inclusions and exclusions.

The parts I've quoted are where I disagree to an extent. The rest I largely agree with or simply don't know enough about to comment.

Coteaz is awesome. Way under priced for what he offers. He offers so many tactical advantages and potential strategic options he's hard to pass up. Agree wholeheartedly. Considering his price and abilities he's a very good option. Just that though - an option. Saying it's not up for debate with him though . . . Bit off the mark. There are other options. Not saying better - but there are options out there. Not everyone plays the game the same way and Coteaz just may not tick all the boxes for some.

The Stormraven. You know my views on the Stormraven and it serving as a transport. I think it's a very ill founded view that it's transport capacity is the only reason you should take one. I actually almost laugh when I hear that or read it. However - that aside - in an allied list where you have access to the massively under costed Vendetta, fair play. I'd go for them as well to be honest. Their price is insanely cheap for what they offer. The more the merrier if points allow.

Have to agree with IndigoJack. The Psyfleman is an option the IG can't really replicate - and certainly not better. There's a few things Codex wide like this, but Heavy Support specifically and as the most stand out thing - Psyflemen.

Keep up the good work. That must have taken a while to draw up. I think it'll be a valuable resource for people new to IG allies and even allies general

[DAwarrior43]

I do like the write up but along with the others there are some things I disagree with.

 

-Marbo is a valid option for the IG. He is a one trick pony but he will make your opponent think and he can terrify backfield units or people caught in the open.

-Manticores are awesome! S10 pie plates of doom! Watch your opponent spread out in fear. Also, this puts heat on things like land raiders and makes people carefully consider where they deploy their wraiths and other things that can be instant gibbed.

Griffons-never underestimate the cheap artillery platforms! They are so accurate with that reroll it's sickening. I love using these to pile on the wounds. It makes thinks behind aegis' think twice about being clumped together.

Lord Commissar-orders are nice from the stock command squad but this guy makes not blabbing up as much of a liability due to his LD bubble.

 

These are just some of my experiences with IG allies.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I don't quite agree with this. While the LRBT is a solid choice, you shouldn't overlook the humble manticore. S10 barrage is great at removing other blob squads while hiding out of LoS.

 

 

The thing is though, AV12. I know you can hide Manticores, but LR's can sit in the open and tank (literally) enemy fire whilst blasting back. I'll add it in though, I just though LR's were probably a stronger choice as Knights lack long-range anti-Marine. AP4 and anti-horde we can already do. 

 

 

I also don't quite agree with this. While the vendetta is a (mostly) better AA choice than a stormraven, the stormraven has better survivability in that it's AV12 all the way around and is immune to lucky melta. Additionally, the stormraven's turret weapons allow you a better second chance at taking out other flyers. Additionally, a twin-linked skyfire MM is fantastic at tearing up most other flyers. Meanwhile, getting on the vendetta's flank isn't too difficult and can prevent a lascannon from firing, therefore reducing its efficiency. I'm not saying that the stormraven is better than the vendetta, but I don't believe it's a clear cut choice.

Vendettas are AV12 all around as well...unless that changed in 'Death From The Skies' or whatever. Melta isn't a common AA weapon, S7 AP4 is a more common profile. 

The clear cut choice comes on price. 70pts is a huge discount, not to mention the Vendetta gets an extra gun over the Raven. As I mentioned though, the Raven brings advantages to the Knight component of the army that the Vendetta doesn't (ie transportation, Terminator delivery, charging after leaping out etc). So, if you're just taking FA units for gunships, the Vendetta is better. However, if you want to deliver melee Henchmen, Purifiers or Paladins, Raven will be better. It really depends in your army composition. They're both great choices. 

 

IMO, the psyback is the best razorback choice available to GKs. It's cheap, tears up infantry and light AV. I've even used mine to ping hull points off flyers.

 

 

Yes and no. My issue with the basic PsyBack is that it doesn't do anything Knights don't do already (ie ding up infantry and light armour). Bringing the twin-AC or the las/plas variants brings firepower Knights normally don't have access to, or only get limited amounts of (ie psycannon). As far as anti-Flyer goes, you'd wanna bring solid hard-counters rather than relying on chance 6's to do something. 

 

No mention of the psyfleman? I'm not sure there is a way IG can reproduce that kind of efficiency. 

 

IG demolish vehicles no problems, they have many options for doing so. PsyDreads are nice, but they're not what they were in 5th. 

 

For saying how there's no net list for this and how it's down to the individual player, you make some sweeping inclusions and exclusions.

Well, I'm trying to be even handed. Also, it isn't just a dodge, it is pretty true that you can do quite a few different builds with Knights+IG. I can't really be too prescriptive, I have to just point out what are some good units, then let people figure out their own combos/shenanigans. IG do possess things we don't need, and vice versa. However, I'm happy for people to argue otherwise and add more stuff to the OP. 

 

Coteaz is awesome. Way under priced for what he offers. He offers so many tactical advantages and potential strategic options he's hard to pass up. Agree wholeheartedly. Considering his price and abilities he's a very good option. Just that though - an option. Saying it's not up for debate with him though . . . Bit off the mark. There are other options. Not saying better - but there are options out there. Not everyone plays the game the same way and Coteaz just may not tick all the boxes for some.

Well, its very hard not to include him. He's better than two Prescience Inquisitors, and he's half the price of a Grandmaster whilst bringing a powerful set unlock ('Grand Strategy' is random, you can sometimes roll low and only buff 1 unit) and 2 powers. I'll go back and edit my statement though, I am probably being too dogmatic. 

 

The Stormraven. You know my views on the Stormraven and it serving as a transport. I think it's a very ill founded view that it's transport capacity is the only reason you should take one. I actually almost laugh when I hear that or read it. However - that aside - in an allied list where you have access to the massively under costed Vendetta, fair play. I'd go for them as well to be honest. Their price is insanely cheap for what they offer. The more the merrier if points allow.

Hey hey, lets keep our bickering about Ravens in the other thread ;) I want to argue about Guard Allying here. 

 

-Marbo is a valid option for the IG. He is a one trick pony but he will make your opponent think and he can terrify backfield units or people caught in the open.

He's fun. I'll add him in, I just don't think he's worth the Elite slot when you could take a PSB instead. But others may prefer him, so I'll put him in. 

 

Griffons-never underestimate the cheap artillery platforms! They are so accurate with that reroll it's sickening. I love using these to pile on the wounds. It makes thinks behind aegis' think twice about being clumped together.

More anti-infantry isn't something Knights want. I'll add the Manticore, but Griffons are glorified Whirlwinds for the most part. 

 

Lord Commissar-orders are nice from the stock command squad but this guy makes not blabbing up as much of a liability due to his LD bubble.

The Command Squad can be cheaper. I forgot about his aura ability though, I'll add him as an option. 

 

Thanks for the feedback guys, I do appreciate it. 

[Justicar Enethys]

The Vendetta is 12/12/10. Always has been.

[Aethernitas]

Just doublechecked the same in 'death from the skies' as I had a sudden panic attack for cheating our IG player all those times I shot his Vendettas in the back

Turns out my slate is still clean...

[Justicar Enethys]

It's a particularly satisfying thing. Shooting a Vendetta in the **$* with strength 4/5 weapons and taking it down. I particularly love it when dog fighting and hitting it with Hurricane Bolters in the rear while your bigger guns hit the other Vendetta invariably accompanying it :) Of course, getting to that rear amour isn't always the easiest thing in the world :P

[Aethernitas]

a turret mounted lasercannon and a very flexible mounted MM help =)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

The Vendetta is 12/12/10. Always has been.

 

Sweet. 

 

Any more suggestions for the OP guys? I've made some changes to reflect feedback.