More toys for the Knights

[VVolf]

As a long time fan of 40k books, especially the Grey Knight ones, I found the perfect excuse to start my hobby when the codex came out.

 

One thing that has always struck me though is how little we have access to despite being an inquisitorial chapter and a stones throw from Mars. I recently asked forgeworld if they had any gk releases in the pipeline and was told no.

 

Are there any units people would like to use for gameplay or fluff purposes?

[Grey Mage]

Sisters of Silence.

[Gentlemanloser]

Storm Shields and Melta Guns.  Jetbikes.  ICs with the ability to purchase Personal Teleporters.  Land Speeders might be cool as well.  Heck, throw in Vendetta's as well. ;)

 

Guns with ranges longer than 24".  Henchmen with Sniper/Hell Rifles.

[VVolf]

I've been having a think whilst working... I would like inquisitorial stormtroopers, chaplains (common in the fluff) and maybe a choice of powers per squad that set them apart from each other as different types of psyker.

 

I think more special characters would be cool, especially if they showed more differences between brotherhoods.

 

The sisters are an intresting one, as far as I know they haven't been seen since the heresy.

[adamv6]

I always get the feeling they missed out on a character Dreadnought in the GK codex.

 

Surely a fallen Brother Champion could have been put into a Dreadnought chassis.  A Purifier Dreadnought would have been brilliant as well.

[Gentlemanloser]

Psyker Dreadnought for sure.  Not just Fortitude.

[number6]

Ditto on the psyker dreadnought. I was offended when the 5e BA codex was released with a massive retcon to the both the large number of psykers the chapter supposedly has AND the large number of dreadnoughts the chapter supposedly has. (The existence of the Furioso to me never equated to "BA's got loads of dreadnoughts, y'all!" It actually seemed to me to be the Death Company Dreadnought ... before the Death Company dreadnought. :( Le sigh.)

 

Before C:GK, dreads were supposedly quite rare for GKs. That's fine. But since when were BA's more psychic than GKs? :( If anybody deserves a librarian-like dreadnought, it's the GKs, seeing as every single GK is a psyker.

 

Upon the release of the BA codex, I was well and truly convinced that the (then forthcoming) GK codex would also contain a librarian -- or at least super-psychic -- dreadnought.

 

So ... where is it?!

 

Bah.

[thade]

Aye, the lack of true pskyer dreads is a bit strange; especially considering it was the same guy that wrote both dexes...but what can ya do?

The allies matrix, healthy doses of counts-as, and a very good relationship with the peeps you tend to play with can help here a bit; not the kind of thing that would fly in a tournament, but in a match between friends, if that silver Dread is technically an "allied Furioso Psyker dread" and that Inquisitor in power armor is "technically a space marine captain" and that Deathwatch detachment is "technically a unit of Death Company"...you get the idea. If you're not trying to cheeseball anything and just gunning for your fluff-tastic list, it's the kind of thing I'd happily play against. Getting more Dreads into your list isn't really the Internet Meta these days, so you'll probably meet little resistance.

[Vesper]

Sisters of Silence.

To mess all GKs up thanks to the fact that the sisters are all Blanks ? That'd be hilarious.

[VVolf]

More of a psychic emphasis would have been fitting I think, the same power for most vehicles and knights is abit lame.

 

+1 for psychic dread, might come up with a data sheet if I get time.

 

Another one I thought was odd is that we can't take contemptors, again oweing to the 'we get all the toys'. Plus my psyflemen dreads are modelled with them.

 

Didn't know the sisters were blanks, learn something everyday lol. Could be used as an aggressive deepstrike squad? I imagine the range of their field to be around 6-12".

[Justicar Enethys]

Personally, I was content with the amount of unique toys and shiny things we got. I think our Codex is very charismatic and allows us to field many things no-one else gets to at all. At least for the time being. However, I was always disappointed with the lack of 'standard' things we have. For example - our Terminators and Paladins are great, but what . . . the most skilled and elite warriors, in the sharpest equipped Chapter in the Imperium, just thought Storm Shields were a bit girly and decided to leave them back home on every galactic outing? Melta - THE tool for opening armoured positions and vehicles just removes the challenge for them? C'mon GW.

 

"Brother Choros, slag that enemy tank. No no. Don't be a sissy, man. Put the Melta down. Punch it for Throne's sake".

 

I get that balancing issues come into play - but I'm absolutely certain prices could reflect their inclusion as a wargear option - for Paladins if nothing else. I don't play Paladins in my lists, but I think that, fluff-wise, these epic heroes might carry one. I doubt the forges only ever produced the one currently carried by Chuck Nor . . . Draigo himself. Gameplay wise, they wouldn't really make anything worse. They'd cost more (Making Paladins horrifically expensive - on top of that they are) and would remove the vambrace mounted Storm Bolter/Psycannon/Incinerator.

 

And I agree with Gentlemanloser even further when he mentioned IC's with Personal Teleporters as a wargear option. If people don't want it - they don't have to take it - but the option would be nice.

[VVolf]

I agree completely, my only thoughts on why we don't get things like melta is that its not really a grey knights job. Daemons don't really have tanks and from a fluff standpoint, force weapons or bolters with blessed ammo are the only way to go.

Reasons for no shield? I got nothing...

I just wish I could flick through forgeworld use something without bending the rules or gimping my army with allies.

[Justicar Enethys]

That's a fair point about the Melta. Though in fairness - if fluff were the reason why game mechanics and inclusions/exclusions are the way they are - 40K would be unrecognizable from it's current incarnation The fluff of 40K is fantastic, but it has very little relevance on actual game-play. Going by fluff, we show up to fight the daemonic, so blessed ammo and force weapons are the way to go. However - in my last 20 battles or so I've played Daemons maybe twice. Melta would have been useful in the other 18 games I wasn't limiting myself to fighting the one type of opponent I 'should' - fight 'by the fluff'

However, we haven't got them so no point whining about it now I suppose. I guess the Storm Shield omission from the Codex bugs me more, but it's the same story there.

A line needed to be drawn. Having access to Inquisitorial resources theoretically means we should be able to get our hands on anything. Including Inquisitorial Vendettas . . . .

[thade]

I think that, if any psykers would not be rendered incapable by the presence of the Sisters, it'd be the Grey Knights. They're the best trained psykers in the Imperium, with the most powerful (and dangerous) abilities, defenses, and equipment. They also have the Big E's gift which probably counts for something there. (The Big E was not really off-put by the Sisters. If he were, he'd never have let them live, let alone dwell in the palace.) As it is, our book gives us a Culexus, which is creepier than a Sister of Silence in my book.

[Vesper]

I think that, if any psykers would not be rendered incapable by the presence of the Sisters, it'd be the Grey Knights. They're the best trained psykers in the Imperium, with the most powerful (and dangerous) abilities, defenses, and equipment. They also have the Big E's gift which probably counts for something there. (The Big E was not really off-put by the Sisters. If he were, he'd never have let them live, let alone dwell in the palace.) As it is, our book gives us a Culexus, which is creepier than a Sister of Silence in my book.

Gks are psykers. Psykers can't stand the presence of Blanks, who are the exact opposite of psykers. Therefore Gk can't stand Blanks. I can train, as a human, to hold my breath as long as possible. Yet if one day, I choke on my cereals, I'd die. GK aren't god-moding the galaxy, and until it gets retconed/specified, they're helpless against Blanks, because that's the whole point of Blanks. Otherwise, the Galaxy would end up really tiny, with Daemons immune to GK, GK immune to Blanks, psykers immune to the Warp...

Back on topic, I would say that the codex should come back something more focused on the inquisition. Having the gk is fine, but they are just a tool among others in the toolbox of the inquisition. And it would be so cool to explore that diversity.

[Grey Mage]

 

Sisters of Silence.

To mess all GKs up thanks to the fact that the sisters are all Blanks ? That'd be hilarious.

Itd be an interesting dichotomy wouldnt it? Making it harder for psychic powers to go off nearby, friend or foe, but bringing a much desired psychic defense.... real choices to make there.

 

Honestly theres no reason GKs wouldnt be affected by sisters. Period. Full stop. Sisters powers are either on or off, and thats only because of significant training. But if anyone could call upon them, itd be the GKs. There are times when nullifying the warp in an area would be to the GKs advantage, as they arent exactly made of alpha level psyckers for example.

 

And one could always take them as part of the inquisitorial henchmen armies.

 

Otherwise, an option for special issue ammunition on purifier squads stormbolters for say... 5pts a model, and the multimelta as a terminator special weapon could be interesting.

 

The GKs dont actually neeeeed much. They suffer little from the 6th ed meta of moving away from vehicles and gain much. A points drop on the vendread would be welcome, but otherwise Im almost confused this topic even came up.

[Vesper]

 

Itd be an interesting dichotomy wouldnt it?

It would.

But that kind of fancy stuff, with actual drawbacks, is reserved to Xenos armies. MEQ being very straightforward in their design. For example, Chaos has boons, daemon weapon that can make you lose a fight, randomness into more randomness here and there. That wouldn't be the case for a MEQ army (Chaos Marines being way closer to Xenos), it just can't happen because the design direction is simply not the same.

[VVolf]

From how i've read about blanks, they cancel out abilities and sever links to the warp. Psykers become disorientated but are ok provided they don't cast. Daemons on the otherhand lose their tenuous grip on reality and go back to the warp. Rule wise you could have a bubble that cancels psychic powers in range both recieved and cast. Daemons get some kind of debuff, lose their invul etc.

 

As for the topic, I'm not trying to start a wishlist. I wanted some ideas on what I could convert/counts-as or make datasheets with that isn't in the codex. Plus, see how people feel about grey knights limitations with forgeworld and 'standard' astares wargear we lack :P.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Another one I thought was odd is that we can't take contemptors, again
oweing to the 'we get all the toys'. Plus my psyflemen dreads are
modelled with them.

 

FW sucks y'all. ;)  The Contemptor model rocks though!

 

 

Gks are psykers.

 

Nope.

 

GK are Sorcerors.  Subtle difference. ;)  Enough to make the Emperor send the Wolves to kill the Sons.

 

 

Daemons don't really have tanks

 

Soulgrinders disagree. ;)

 

As do possessed Vehicles.

[VVolf]

What is the difference between a psyker and sorceror? To me they both use warp powers, but sorcerors are chaos tainted. If thats correct then they would be classed as a psyker as they are pure, same as a sanctioned psyker from the gk or ig codex.

 

The comment about daemons not using vehicles is from a fluff standpoint, they do use things like chariots etc but not enough to warrant anti-tank weapons. Same with the soulgrinder, it has taken over a defiler but is still mostly daemon and needs anti-daemon weapons. Possessed vehicles don't count as they are used by chaos marines, who generally don't operate in daemonic incursions. I concede the point from a game standpoint though.

[Vesper]

GK are Sorcerors. Subtle difference. Enough to make the Emperor send the Wolves to kill the Sons.

Or just ask them to be nice and Magnus to nicely come to Terra sit on a facy chair. I wonder why they didn't kept the whole "Horus messed up the SW's orders", and chose to don't reveal what really happened. Maybe they keep it for later.

But gk still are all psykers, as far as I know.

[thade]

...Im almost confused this topic even came up.

I thought it was for theme? That's how I approached it, haha. I agree that the codex really doesn't suffer any notable shortcomings. It doesn't *need* a psyker dreadnought, but that'd very thematically appropriate. I almost wish that the Dreadknights had enshrined brothers instead of, well, Knights awkwardly posed outside.

 

Once I find a suitable face-plate for mine, that's precisely what it'll be haha.

[thade]

A sorceror is a kind of psyker; sorcery not really a trait so much as a methodology behind wielding and shaping warp energy. It's heavily ritualistic (they use chants, totems...thigh bones) which implies to me that their belief in it powers it up. They need to get wrapped up in it, even get a bit emotional, to get it working. It's very powerful and very dangerous, hence why it was restricted...and why it motivated the order that sent the Wolves after the Sons.

 

The level of control and focus required for the GK to safely use those powers has got to be among the best. Given that, I think they might be able to still carry on about their business with trained, allied blanks hanging about...if unable to wield their powers while in close proximity. It's said that blanks make psykers very, very uncomfortable...but then, so do demons, and the GK handle them alright.

[Grey Mage]

Psyckers use innate power, Sorcerers pull power through pacts and rituals, that is the difference.

[jeffersonian000]

First off, GKs consider psykers and sorcerers to be the exact same thing, and consider their own psychic abilities to be sorcery. Says so right in their codex, as well as in the BRB.

 

Second, the only things we are truly lacking are Storm Shields, Personal Teleporters for PA ICs, Librarian Dreads, and a functioal teleportation assault army ability. All four are there in fluff, no reason they shouldn't be there as options.

 

One thing I'd like to see is a squad specific power for our GKT, who lost Holocaust to Paladins when they got re-classed as troops. I'd like them to have the older version of Holocaust back, awkward to use that it was, or another ability uniquely their own such as a "no scatter when deep striking with a successful psychic check" or "may assault after deep striking with a successful psychoc check". Either ability would give us a tough choice better Hammerhand, activation, something flashy, and add to the play style without being too overpowered.

 

SJ