More toys for the Knights

[Vesper]

 

The level of control and focus required for the GK to safely use

those powers has got to be among the best. Given that, I think they

might be able to still carry on about their business with trained,

allied blanks hanging about...if unable to wield their powers while in

close proximity. It's said that blanks make psykers very, very

uncomfortable...but then, so do demons, and the GK handle them alright.

You can't make a straight line between Warp and Blanks because those aren't the same at all. And the gk being trained against one of those doesn't prevent them from the other at all (it might even be the contrary). A simple proof would be to note that GK aren't tasked with fighting against Blanks threats and are only made (literally) to deal with Daemons. They are a very specialised tool. The imperium has other tools for other uses.

[VVolf]

I think it would be interesting to see regardless, though grey knight fluff isn't that common :( maybe a ciaphas story in future?

 

Another unit I thought of would be a drop pod, again we have one in the fluff but not in the codex.

 

Like I said though, i'm not saying the codex is lacking, just wanted ideas and discussion on expanding it along with peoples thoughts on forgeworld stuff we 'cant' use.

[Aethernitas]

I want my Inquisitional Stormtroopers back. Henchman are nice and all but tying them to a single named model is wrong in so many ways :\

 

I want my possessed back. Make them badass (like in the Ravenor and Eisenhorn books) and a little random if you have to. I know they are not compatible with Grey Knights but with some small changes here and there GKs could field a fluffy radical army too.

 

I want a GK equivalent for the Librarian Dread the BA got.

 

I want shunting HQs and and a stormshield trade-off for Paladins and maybe Terminators.

 

I want cool deployment rules. GKs are supposed to be even more adapt in precision attacks than other SMs save for Blood Angels maybe - yet they get one (again - named...) HQ that can't even extend it's ability to other squads.

[IndigoJack]

I want cool deployment rules. GKs are supposed to be even more adapt in precision attacks than other SMs save for Blood Angels maybe - yet they get one (again - named...) HQ that can't even extend it's ability to other squads.

We do have grand strategy though, and of of it's uses is to confer scout. If you have scoring covered (and really, you should), then scout is a good way to get your guns midfield where they belong. Additionally, the fact that almost every GK unit can deep strike is something very few armies can do (although, it was stronger back when full reserves was a thing).

[Gentlemanloser]

IJ, as said, I'd rather have the options to purchase a Drop Pod, than have DS as a rule on the unit.

 

DPs for their limited cost (let's ignore the free SB!) allow you to bypass the 50% reserves limit, Almost negate any penalty from Scatter, and give you 50% coming in turn one with DPA.

 

DS on the unit itself just can't compare.

[Aethernitas]

to be a little more specific:

 

the fluff states that GKs have the most advanced teleporting technology of all chapters to ensure that theyshow up where they are needed most on the battlefield, yet apart from Servo Skulls and the homers every army gets we have no way of reducing our scatter distance. For an army that specialized in teleporting and dropping in on gunships I would have expected a little more.

 

Maybe some deepstriking on turn one. Maybe a generic HQ to deepstrike with another squad without scatter. Maybe an overall scatter reduce of 1D6. As it is now we are behind virtually every other SM army in effective deep-striking.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup.

 

We don't even get Locator Beacons. /golfclap

 

For thier Fluff, Strikes needed to have Scout/Infiltrate over DS.  If they are supposed to get there *before* the rest of the army, kinda hard to do when you have to arrive by DS *after*.

 

But we couldn't have Teleport Assault, as that's reserved for the Deathwing.

[Sigvard]

It does always baffle me when my Belial Striking opponent drops his Deathwing unit of deathly death without scatter directly in the squishiest parts of my nether regions having only reasonably basic kit. Yet my technologically advanced and generally superior Grey Knights using their high end non scatter teleporters get eaten by deep striking into an angry forest. Gah! Also The fact that those same Deathly Deathwing Death dealers of death stromp around the field with their T5, 2+ AS and 3+ IS turn all of my shiny physic warriors to telekinetic paste is quite frustrating.

 

Clearly GK needs Storm Shields, Plasma is the bane of my 40k playing existence and my group uses it like it is going out of fashion.

[Aethernitas]

I'am okay with other SMs getting their own Elite Units like Deathwing Knights for DA. Contrary to the general opinion of GKs beeing the most elitist of the SM orders I tend to think about them as the best of the best "only" in their specific field - daemon hunting. Therefore it's only natural that some other orders beat them in their special field like for example the Imperial Fists when it comes to siege warfare or the Salamanders for their mastery of melter and flame.

 

When it comes to Grey Knights some of the underrepresented main aspects that come to mind are:

 

> they are all rigorously trained psykers and their brother captains and grandmasters are some of the most capable leaders mankind has ever seen

yet when it comes to dreadnoughts they waste them for run-of-the-mill GKs with a lower WS than Paladins and no special pychic powers whatsoever?

 

> they have highly advanced weapons and appropriate training to fight daemons toe to toe

Some of the Nemesis Force Weapon rules are weird (like the +1 invul save on the swords) and other for me obvious options are absent (like the storm shield which they already had in earlier versions) or extremely underwhelming (like the Psilencer). I consider the GKs  experts in close combat - after all they have to fight Daemons in melee - right up there with Blood Angels and Wolves, yet every vanilla TH/SS squad kicks their ass?! I would also trade the Dreadknight for a Deathwing Knight-ish unit with SS at any time. Such a unit would fit the "special squad to fight greater daemons" - theme much better than the DK.

 

> the teleport technology of the GKs is the best the Imperium of Man has to offer to allow extremely precise attacks

There is pretty much nothing in the rules to represent this. Every other Space Marine army has better options when it comes to deep striking. The only advantage was our Stormraven which was subsequently given to all the SM orders. Yay. Granted, GKs have shunting but for me that isn't an option of deployment but rather a unique way for GKs to move on the battlefield. Apart from that there is no way whatsoever to manipulate the reserves or to better control them.

 

That is what I can't fathom: why some of the characteristic aspects of the GKs are so blatantly passed over...

[Gentlemanloser]

 

That is what I can't fathom: why some of the characteristic aspects of the GKs are so blatantly passed over...

 

Balance and homogenisation.

 

No SS because of NFS +1 Invulnerable in CC.  No Teleport Assault because Dangels have it.  No Psyker Dread because Bangles got that instead.  No Plasma/Melta because it was all rolled into one in the Psycannon, as long as you roll a 6 that is.

 

I think PE was supposed to represent our focus at Daemon killing.

 

And we didn't get Drop Pods because we got Deep Strike on our units instead.  Which is so much better. :P

 

While people bemoan the 'power' of the GK 'dex, or that it's too easy to cobble together a list that will win games, personally I think the overall design of the army is really lacking.

[Sigvard]

The all encompassing unit that combats Daemons that Aethernitas speaks of should be Paladins. They are the greatest line troops the Grey Knights have to offer and as such should be kitted out accordingly. Storm Shields on Paladins would elevate them to the level of Deathwing Knights and give them specific rules in the same fashion as Knights to combat Daemons rather than CSM. I think the Dreadknight is a brilliant idea in itself to have and I do not think it should be sacrificed for an Elite Terminator unit when we already have one, it just needs some love in terms of equipment.

 

The Psilencer for me has been a mix and match of good and bad. The only practical application I have found for it is on my shunting DK when I teleport behind objectives in my gaming group and mow down Cultists or Fire Warriors. But apart from that it offers nothing to the army what so ever. The Psycannon I think is a brilliant concept but against an almost entirely Space Marine meta I find I struggle to give it a practical application on the field of battle as it tends not to even dent power armour.

 

Finally my over all opinion with the Codex is that it tries to do 2 things that deserve to be focused on as completely separate. I would rather GW focused on doing one thing well than 2 things in a mediocre fashion. Me and friend have been talking recently about an entirely separate Inquisition Codex, with the inclusion of more of the massive and diverse arsenal that they can bring to a fight. In the same way that the Grey Knights deserve a full book devoted entirely to themselves. Are they not after all, a gift from the Emperor himself and thus deserve the have their own spot light?

 

Sigvard

[Gentlemanloser]

The NDK needs to be allowed to purchase two of the same Ranged Weapons, to allow it to become the shooting platform it desires to be.

[Aethernitas]

No SS because of NFS +1 Invulnerable in CC.  No Teleport Assault because Dangels have it.  No Psyker Dread because Bangles got that instead.  No Plasma/Melta because it was all rolled into one in the Psycannon, as long as you roll a 6 that is.

 

I think PE was supposed to represent our focus at Daemon killing.

 

The NFS bonus of +1 Invul save is extremely dubious anyway - I wouldn't mind to get rid of that. Teleport Assault is not something uniquly Deathwingish and betweeen BAs and GKs i would give the psychic dread to GKs all the time. No Plasma/Melta I can totally accept, as those are weapons primarily designed to take apart heavily armoured infantry and vehicles - both of which Daemons have very few to none.

 

Anyways - I don't dig your explanation of countering homogenisation. Having two armies with overlapping strengths and similar special rules to represent it is not homogenisation for me, but rather streamlining. Apart from that there are dozens of ways to realize those GK fluff-strengths without reusing other armies special rules.

 

The all encompassing unit that combats Daemons that Aethernitas speaks of should be Paladins. They are the greatest line troops the Grey Knights have to offer and as such should be kitted out accordingly. Storm Shields on Paladins would elevate them to the level of Deathwing Knights and give them specific rules in the same fashion as Knights to combat Daemons rather than CSM. I think the Dreadknight is a brilliant idea in itself to have and I do not think it should be sacrificed for an Elite Terminator unit when we already have one, it just needs some love in terms of equipment.

 

The Psilencer for me has been a mix and match of good and bad. The only practical application I have found for it is on my shunting DK when I teleport behind objectives in my gaming group and mow down Cultists or Fire Warriors. But apart from that it offers nothing to the army what so ever. The Psycannon I think is a brilliant concept but against an almost entirely Space Marine meta I find I struggle to give it a practical application on the field of battle as it tends not to even dent power armour.

 

Finally my over all opinion with the Codex is that it tries to do 2 things that deserve to be focused on as completely separate. I would rather GW focused on doing one thing well than 2 things in a mediocre fashion. Me and friend have been talking recently about an entirely separate Inquisition Codex, with the inclusion of more of the massive and diverse arsenal that they can bring to a fight. In the same way that the Grey Knights deserve a full book devoted entirely to themselves. Are they not after all, a gift from the Emperor himself and thus deserve the have their own spot light?

 

Sigvard

 

I agree. From a fluff standpoint Paladins are the perfect unit to carry the burden of fighting the strongest of the daemons. It would also adress the flaw of an whole order called "Grey KNIGHTS" without one single unit with the iconic shields many of us probably picture as integral part of the knight archetype. Maybe make SS an option that overlaps with the psibolter/psilencer/incinerator option for standard PA and TA GKs  and an independant option for Paladins.

 

Concerning the DK I would really like to know why you think of it as such an brilliant idea? I for one think it's a reasonable concept with a bit of a lackluster realisation when it comes to modelling it. The external carriage of the pilot, the not-at-all modelled super forcefield that protects the pilot and he extreme inflexability when it comes to positioning are all on the contra side of my arguing. Apart from that I don't really like that pattern GW displays with huge walkers beeing represented as MCs... very sceptical bout that.

 

The psilencer for me is just a given away opportunity to add a very cool weapon concept/mechanic to the arsenal of the GKs. Something like wounding against the LD or ignoring cover (psychic bullets) or something along those lines.

 

I also wish for the Inquisition to be more present in current books, although I don't know if giving them their own book works so well with GW current politics of making every codex a stand-alone codex. Without requisitioned troops a Inquisition codex would have a hard time to stand on it's own feet. I think it would be a better Idea to expend a little on the Inquisition choices present in the GK and Sisters codex and give them the option to make IG battle brothers by choosing a Inquisitor Lord as HQ. Would be cool to play a stand-alone (even radical) Inquisition army again :)

 

The NDK needs to be allowed to purchase two of the same Ranged Weapons, to allow it to become the shooting platform it desires to be.

 

From what I remember of the DK fluff it was never meant to be a shooting platform. The ranged weapons re only a nice addition that helps when slaughtering your way through dozens of lesser daemons to engage your main target - the great daemons. I think it pretty obvious crunchwise too as you dont exchange your melee weapons for the ranged ones but instead add them for good measure.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

The NFS bonus of +1 Invul save is extremely dubious anyway - I wouldn't
mind to get rid of that. Teleport Assault is not something uniquly
Deathwingish and betweeen BAs and GKs i would give the psychic dread to
GKs all the time. No Plasma/Melta I can totally accept, as those are
weapons primarily designed to take apart heavily armoured infantry and
vehicles - both of which Daemons have very few to none.

 

+1 to all of those.

Anyways - I don't dig your explanation of countering homogenisation.
Having two armies with overlapping strengths and similar special rules
to represent it is not homogenisation for me, but rather streamlining.
Apart from that there are dozens of ways to realize those GK
fluff-strengths without reusing other armies special rules.

 

Streamlinging as in why bother with a seperate codex...

 

 

From what I remember of the DK fluff it was never meant to be a shooting
platform. The ranged weapons re only a nice addition that helps when
slaughtering your way through dozens of lesser daemons to engage your
main target - the great daemons. I think it pretty obvious crunchwise
too as you dont exchange your melee weapons for the ranged ones but
instead add them for good measure.

 

One of the largest benefits MCs have is the ability to shoot two weapons.  At the least let the NDK purchase two Heavy Incinerators.

 

Also, PTs for them cost far too much.  Do you purchase one of those and get a once a game shunt, or would you pay 25 ponts *less* and gain the ability to become a Flying MC instead?

 

No contest really.

[Justicar Enethys]

I agree with much of the sentiment here, but regarding the Personal Teleporter on the NDK - yes - it is insanely priced and for two of them in a list you're looking at a whopping 150 points. But it doesn't just buy you a once per game 30" shunt. It buys you 12" movement every turn and if you choose to use it in the Assault Phase you get your Hammer of Wrath attack. S10 AP- = but it all adds up. I agree that it is over costed and think even 50 points would be much more reasonable, but it's not just 75 points for a one off 30" shunt.

[Aethernitas]

Streamlinging as in why bother with a seperate codex...

 

[...]

 

One of the largest benefits MCs have is the ability to shoot two weapons.  At the least let the NDK purchase two Heavy Incinerators.

 

Also, PTs for them cost far too much.  Do you purchase one of those and get a once a game shunt, or would you pay 25 ponts *less* and gain the ability to become a Flying MC instead?

 

No contest really.

 

I meant streamlining as in: establish all special rules in the BRB and introduce them as needed with every new codex release. The combination of the different special rules, the different units and weapons in the respective dex and the general army organisation are more than enough to give each and every army a very distinct character while using the same special rules from the BRB. It creates diversity and complexity without needlessly complicating the basics of the game. Thats something GW imo did very well with 6th edition and it shows.

 

Only cuz a MC may fire two weapons (something a walker can do too btw) doesn't mean it has to. Stemming from the fact that the DK can get and fire two weapons anyway I'd like to think that it came down to a simple design choice to not let him buy the same weapon option twice. I don't really have a problem with that.

Regarding the high coss of the PT I'm with Enethys on this - I think they add up quite well. After all it is a force multiplier to have something already very powerful like the Dk (it's like a Trygon with less wounds and attacks but a much better armour and more powerful weapons) and giving it a mobility that is pretty much unrivaled among it's kind (MCs) apart from the flying MCs that is.

If you take a DK with Incinerator and sword your are still under the points of a vanilla Trygon but the DK will kick the Trygons ass hard due to his force weapon. Additionally to all of that goodness you add the ability to move as jump infantry and shunt (once)... in my book that is unquestionably worth 75 points. I mean I pay 40 points to make my Trygon a synapse and double it's unremarkable shots. If I could instead pay 75 points to make it jump infantry and shunt I won't think twice about it ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

I agree with much of the sentiment here, but regarding the Personal

Teleporter on the NDK - yes - it is insanely priced and for two of them

in a list you're looking at a whopping 150 points. But it doesn't just

buy you a once per game 30" shunt. It buys you 12" movement every turn

and if you choose to use it in the Assault Phase you get your Hammer of

Wrath attack. S10 AP- = but it all adds up. I agree that it is over

costed and think even 50 points would be much more reasonable, but it's

not just 75 points for a one off 30" shunt.

Never said you didn't get a 12" move. You get that *as well* with Wings...

Regarding the high coss of the PT I'm with Enethys on this - I think

they add up quite well. After all it is a force multiplier to have

something already very powerful like the Dk (it's like a Trygon with

less wounds and attacks but a much better armour and more powerful

weapons) and giving it a mobility that is pretty much unrivaled among

it's kind (MCs) apart from the flying MCs that is.

If you take a

DK with Incinerator and sword your are still under the points of a

vanilla Trygon but the DK will kick the Trygons ass hard due to his

force weapon. Additionally to all of that goodness you add the ability

to move as jump infantry and shunt (once)... in my book that is

unquestionably worth 75 points. I mean I pay 40 points to make my Trygon

a synapse and double it's unremarkable shots. If I could instead pay 75

points to make it jump infantry and shunt I won't think twice about it

'Nids suck. We really shoudln't make any comparisons using them! :P

As for mobility, it's exactly the same mobility that any Winged MC gets. FMC status or Shunt.

And FMC staus is universally cheaper than our Shunt it.

Which boggles the mind.

[Sigvard]

I think the Dreadknight in concept is fantastic a Brother particularly attuned to the way the machine works sets himself the grueling taks of tackling a Greater Daemon alone, the design of said amazing idea however is almost laughable in parts. The Grey Knight hanging in the external harness I will agree is poorly though out and the lack of modelling for superb shield it is meant to have is also poorly designed. For me the design in my head would look more like a mini titan wielding the Nemesis Greatsword as I like take with it. The Wraithlord is a good example of a good idea well executed. Also some of the rules concepts I find lacking. With model being such a points vacuum it needs to have more protection than it does, escpecially when you know your opponent is going to turn into a wonderful silveru puddle of goo by the end of the first turn. Unfortunately this also leads to the personal teleporter to be a large waste of points in general as my DK tends to last too long in a game. Hence my running of a Vindicare Assasin, cheaper, more survivable and tends to boss most big things by the end of turn 3.

 

Also I am not a lover of using Dreadnaughts in my army as fluff supports the fact that this a fate worse than death for GK hero, all each of them wants is to lay in the dead fields with their fallen brethren. In respect of that I choose not to run them. However I tend find myself at a bit of firepower disadvantage.

 

I have to agree with some of the other things being said here. I feel that a lot of identity is tied up very heavily in the Inquisition and the actual Grey Knight chapter itself is just an amalgamation of a number of other chapters in terms of rules and general abilites. I mean don't get me wrong I love GK and I am slowly starting to get the love for the Inquisition (Inquisitor Sakura Kato -  borderline radical Malleus Inquisitor) but they just need refreshing to fit in with the highly dynamic 6th edition.

[Justicar Enethys]

Also, PTs for them cost far too much. Do you purchase one of those and get a once a game shunt, or would you pay 25 ponts *less* and gain the ability to become a Flying MC instead?

No contest really.

@ Gentlemanloser - I know you know it gets the 12" movement as well I'm merely pointing out - in direct reference to the highlighted part of your quote - that for 75 points you aren't just buying a once per game shunt You pay for the 12" movement, 30" once per game shunt and possible Hammer of Wrath attack if you ever feel it would be necessary. All these add to what is a very threatening unit, making it become even more threatening to your opponent. You pay for the versatility and potential. Keeping your opponent on his toes is a silent contributor to the cost and I'm sure something factored in at design level.

Comparing it to what you get on a flying MC is irrelevant. Units in different armies are priced differently when weighing up the potential use of that unit in the specific army. They are designed in context with the rest of your army. Just because you get a 12" move with wings (for cheaper) doesn't necessarily mean the Personal Teleporter is over-priced for that reason. Winged MC's out there pack plenty of their own nasty surprises and flavour - as does the DK. Factored into the price will be the fact that if he is made scoring by a GM's 'TGS' - he becomes an absolute beast at late game objective claiming. Not just contesting - claiming. If the Personal Teleporter was cheaper to fall in line with Winged MC's, it would probably be considered overpowered considering the roles we can use it for. We cop enough flak as it is for choosing our favourite lads from Titan

All that said, I agree that it is over-priced and is one of only a handful of things in our entire Codex I resent paying the asking amount for. That and GM Psycannons. Extortionate is the word. However, in the case of the NDK I almost feel they got it right. A slight reduction would be nice, and I feel appropriate. 50 points and I wouldn't mind at all.

[Brother Maikel]

... and possible Hammer of Wrath attack ...

 

If I recall correctly, MCs get HoW by default, so that shouldn't be factored into the price.

 

 

The only things I really want are storm shields and better servo-skulls (6" move/turn, don't run away as easily).  PT for ICs, AA option for Inquisitors, "Lord Inquisitor" upgrade (take Henchmen as Troops w/out Coteaz), a bike unit (with Nemesis Force Lances?), or T1 Deep Strike would all be nice/nifty, but hardly essential.

[Justicar Enethys]

You are correct in that. My mistake. I've grown so used to factoring it in with Interceptor assaults that I had started to just assume it to be a benefit of the Personal Teleporter!

[Gentlemanloser]

@ Gentlemanloser - I know you know it gets the 12" movement as well
I'm merely pointing out - in direct reference to the highlighted part
of your quote - that for 75 points you aren't just buying a once per
game shunt
You pay for the 12" movement, 30" once per game shunt and possible
Hammer of Wrath attack if you ever feel it would be necessary.

Maybe I should have been more verbose, but as both get the 12" move and HoW attacks, I didn't see the need to mention them. ;)

75 points for the total package, or 50. Where the expensive one gives you a once per game shunt, and the cheaper gives you the ability to become a FMC.

Units in different armies are priced differently when weighing up the
potential use of that unit in the specific army. They are designed in
context with the rest of your army.

Drops Pods are 35 points for every Imperial Army that has access to them. As are Rhinos (unless you're the woefully outdated BT). Space Wolves, for example get access to 35 point Drop Pods, which are more important to them army wide, than Vanilla Marines, as the Space Wolves cannot Teleport.

It's not quite as simple as saying you can't compare costs becuase one army is different to another. There is an underlaying cost matrix GW (at least once) use, to keep things stable.

I find it hard to belive that a PT costs 25 points more than an equivalent bit of gear (which is *better*), purely becuase an expensive HQ has the option to randomly make a few of them Scoring.

All our vehicles cost the same as the other Imperial versions, bar the 5 point increase ours get for being 'psychic' (and the additional rules/benefits that brings).

When compared to other, equivalent upgrades, the PT is just too expensive. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Phew, that turned into more of a rant than I expected. I really do think our 'dex needs a 'patch'. I really do. ;)

[Aethernitas]

I really do think our 'dex needs a 'patch'. I really do.

I totall agree. Actually I think for the sake of the metagame new Necron and GK/Inquisition codizes are more important than any other of the 'older' codizes and that for me even justifies releasing them asap even though my beloved Nids will have to carry their cross even longer ;)

[Justicar Enethys]

You are right. That did become quite a rant - and one in which you ignore or choose to conveniently skip points to make your own :P

When factoring in price differences across different armies, the context of the army and it's potential uses ARE a contributing factor. The sole factor? I would imagine not, no. But certainly a factor nonetheless. In fact - I would go as so far as to say the biggest and most influential factor.

 

I don't see the pricing of the Personal Teleporter as fair. I honestly don't. As I've now mentioned twice - I think it's over the top and needs a reduction, but at the same time - I've been using Personal Teleporters for a long time now and I don't seem to be losing every game due to the fortune I pay on them. More often than not they more than earn their points back in a multitude of ways. Do I sit back after a victory and think, 'Ha - even though I got robbed on the PT cost, I still prevailed'? No. Do I sit back after a loss and think, 'If only I'd paid 25 points less for a Personal Teleporter . . . '? No. 

 

Flying MCs aren't from Imperial Codexes. I would agree that Marines are generally of a same level in a points comparison contest. A fluctuation here and there, but generally in the same region. A rhino is a Rhino is a Rhino.  Flying MC's are from races such as Nids and Daemons. They are not remotely comparable to Grey Knights in any pricing structure so trying to constantly draw a reference there is futile. There is no baseline when comparing the basic troops and points defaults in armies such as those to our own. Apples and Oranges Sir. Apples and Oranges.

[Gentlemanloser]

I still don't understand why people think the GK need to be 'nurfed' in 6th.  So much of the power the dex had was equlaised by the release of 6th.

 

As for the rest, the only things that need ot be fixed are the three obnoxious fliers.

 

The Scyth (and it's lololol transport beam), the Helldrake (I can kill everything bar TEQ) and the Vendetta (all your fliers belong to us).

 

The Stormraven is no where near as obnoxious as these, and the major problme with 6th is that GW has realised, and the fliers after are for want of a better word, 'balanced'.

 

That's not to say 6th doesn't have other issues.  Hull Points need ot be slightly redesigned (when you've lost your las Hull Point, you're not destroyed, but each glance is then a Pen.) and Stubborn/Fearless Blobs need ot be addressed.

 

But nothing specific to the GK 'dex.

 

 

There is no baseline when comparing the basic troops and points defaults in armies such as those to our own.

 

TEQ, MEQ and GEQ.  They are all comparable, across armies.

 

That's the whole point.  They have to be, otherwise GW would have no inbuilt ability to remotely balance their game.