duel dark talon

[oldmanlee]

hi all

 

i was thinking of picking up a second flyer kit (mad i know) and was wondering if anyone had any luck running two dark talons?

[egon1six]

For me they are too expensive points wise and pocket wise.

[Tiger9gamer]

They can work in conjunction with a lot of models, like a stasised enemy from black knights could be blinded better, or they can drop the ultra stasis bomb and make a unit play freeze-tag with DWK.

 

also, maybe they can work with banner of devastation.

[Brother Brucey]

I could see two Dark Talons swooping next to a RW Command Squad with the salvo banner doing something useful. The Talon is more survivable against the majority of incoming fire when compared to a regular RW squad and pumps out a comparable amount of shots. The flyer can also redeploy a bit faster to the other side of the table if needed (and the Command Squad can keep up with Turbo-Boosting, if necessary).

 

You lose the special weapons and a possible scoring unit, though.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

The only way to make them work is using synergy, making sure you have the best ground units in order to take advantage of the de-buffs the Dark Talon can provide, otherwise, its as useless as the Nephilim.

 

Without knowing the rest of your list, its hard to make a judgement call.

[Master Avoghai]

I could see two Dark Talons swooping next to a RW Command Squad with the salvo banner doing something useful. The Talon is more survivable against the majority of incoming fire when compared to a regular RW squad and pumps out a comparable amount of shots. The flyer can also redeploy a bit faster to the other side of the table if needed (and the Command Squad can keep up with Turbo-Boosting, if necessary).

 

You lose the special weapons and a possible scoring unit, though.

Talking about that :

 

Say I have my command squad within 6" of my first dark talon. I shoot using the dakka banner power. Then I turbo boost with my command squad, and now they are within 6" of the second dark talon. May I use the dakka banner power with the second dark talon now?

[Brother Brucey]

Talking about that :

 

Say I have my command squad within 6" of my first dark talon. I shoot using the dakka banner power. Then I turbo boost with my command squad, and now they are within 6" of the second dark talon. May I use the dakka banner power with the second dark talon now?

Yeah, you can do that, and probably will have to with two Talons criss-crossing the battlefield.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Oldmanlee, to ask a similar question but mine would be two Nephilim's. Not to derail the thread and if you'd like me to move my question I will. I just figured two Dark Talon's two Neph's are pretty much the same.

 

So to the rest of you what do you think about two Neph's (A-10's) providing ground support since we've established they aren't anti flyer material what about light transport soft troop killing? Obviously expensive but if not taking bikes? Maybe a veteran or two could throw out their two cents?

 

[elphilo]

 

Talking about that :

 

Say I have my command squad within 6" of my first dark talon. I shoot using the dakka banner power. Then I turbo boost with my command squad, and now they are within 6" of the second dark talon. May I use the dakka banner power with the second dark talon now?

Yeah, you can do that, and probably will have to with two Talons criss-crossing the battlefield.

Yep. As it stands right now you are allowed to do that. The banner has to be within 6" of when the squad shoots. Now if it said the banner had to be within 6" of the squad at the beginning of the shooting phase, you wouldn't be able to do it. 

 

Oldmanlee, to ask a similar question but mine would be two Nephilim's. Not to derail the thread and if you'd like me to move my question I will. I just figured two Dark Talon's two Neph's are pretty much the same.

 

So to the rest of you what do you think about two Neph's (A-10's) providing ground support since we've established they aren't anti flyer material what about light transport soft troop killing? Obviously expensive but if not taking bikes? Maybe a veteran or two could throw out their two cents?

I've got a game later today and in it I'm taking two Nephilims, though I'm taking them with their Lascannons. I'll let you know how it goes, but pre-game prediction is it won't be worth it. 360 points for what it does is just a tad bit much.

[Morticon]

Just remember, you can only gain the effects of the Dakka Banner if the model carrying it is within 6" of the actual Jet hull/wings as opposed to the base.  When its in flyer mode, you ignore the base for everything else except the two items listed under "Flyers And Measuring"pg80 - its the same reason you cant claim with flyers unless they're hovering (or the objective is above the ground)

[Master Avoghai]

Yup but since the base are something like 4" high... I've measured ;-)

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

eliphlo,

 

Thanks I would appreciate the Batrep. I do expect for 360 points there is going to be better stuff out there but I am curious. I think against Guard they could be quite good if you can get some platoons in the open with no cover.

[elphilo]

So just played my game and ran a list with Dual Nephilims against new Tau. And yeah, they did really bad. Luckily my opponent didn't take interceptor so I was able to get one shooting phase with them. But the only heavy armor my opponent had was his Sky Ray Gunship. With the first Nephilim I managed to hit and then fail to glance/penetrate with the Lascannon, and since its front AV is 13 the rest of the weapons were useless. However the 2nd Nephilim got a hit, pen with a weapon destroyed which I bumped to immobilized. Then on my opponents turn he promptly shot them down with the same Sky Ray Gunship (though to be fair I did get a second round of shooting with one of the Nephilims, but the only target I really had was his warlord which did nothing because I kept rolling 1s . . .). Unfortunately I didn't cause any damage when they exploded

I told my opponent the reason I took two was I wanted to see how two of them would work together. He said he thinks they are too points intensive to take in pairs, which I agree with him. I can see you taking one in 2k+ games, but less than 2k games they are too many points and very lackluster. Though to be fair this was against Tau and could totally be different versus other armies. But in the end it is really points intensive and you're most likely not going to get the points back. When they came on the board it wasn't a game changer, which it should be because at 1850 (which is what I played) two Nephilims is almost 20% of your list. It is unfortunate, because I really want to like the Nephilim.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Thanks for the report. That's kind of how I thought they would do. Though as you said to be fair against tau isn't the greatest match up. Not sure if the Avenger would be better than the las or not. I know for me it would because TL or not I always manage to miss that one shot. I may just keep my two for fun big apoc type games and hope I can find a nice soft target that needs buzzing. Like you said the model is gorgeous. I want to like the Dark Talon but the one use bomb seems a bit meh when I've got grenade launchers on Black Knights and Command squads. Am I missing something with the synergy here for the Dark Talon? Tactics anyone?

[Brother Brucey]

The one thing a Dark Talon is uniquely capable of is softening up several enemy units right before an assault. I could see some use for one in a list with lots of Black Knights or Assault Marines/Terminators. In an ideal situation you could stasis-bomb one unit and blind another with the Rift Cannon, giving you two juicy targets in the following assault phase.

 

The problem is, of course, that generally you'd want to end the assault on the enemy turn to be safe from shooting, so the Dark Talon's "help" might be too much against non-dedicated assault units. A big fearless CC unit would probably be the ideal target, especially for Black Knights who would get two close combat phases' worth of protection from either debuff and could Hit & Run away at the end of the opponent's turn.

 

All you need is for the bomb to hit, the cannon to hit, and the enemy to fail his Blind save. And your opponent should be kind enough to bring several big fearless CC units to the battle. So, yeah...

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Brother Bucey,

 

Having not played a game in 6th I am a noob to flyers and the rules. Don't have the book right now can a flyer attack more than one target per shooting phase? I though all shots at one target? Or the bomb on one unit and shoot at another is that how it goes?

 

Question to my fellow flying bretheren. Has anyone managed to use magnets on the Talon/Neph yet? I would like to just use magnets instead of buying one and committing to a single type flyer. I am not a fan of the stasis chamber (I'm air force flyers are supposed to look like they can fly not a box with wings, part of why I don't own a Storm Raven) so I will be putting it on a Neph body but I may swap weapons if I can easily magnetize the thing and I will of course make it very clear when I play what I'm bringing. So how's about it before I put this overcosted pretty piece of plastic together do they magnetize easily or well? Or am I going to need to rebuild the whole thing by the time I get done?

Thanks

DoC Sgt

[Cactus]

Having not played a game in 6th I am a noob to flyers and the rules. Don't have the book right now can a flyer attack more than one target per shooting phase? I though all shots at one target? Or the bomb on one unit and shoot at another is that how it goes?

Page 81, bombs are used in the movement phase.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Thank you kindly Cactus greatly appreciate it.

[Cactus]

You're welcome.

[Biggabertha]

DIsciple of Caliban Sgt.,

 

The Nephilim and Dark Talon seem to have two semi-awkward places to magnetise for the weapons depending on the size of your magnets. As you may already know, the smaller the magnets, the less likely they are of being able to hold the piece AND stay firmly in place without tearing each other off at the same time. At least they have in my experience.

 

I don't have the model on hand but from what I could see on my initial look/glance, it seems a real stretch to easily replace the wings for your conversion if you plan to magnetise it. Gluing the wings seems better just for structure purposes (transport will be a TON easier if you can remove the wings though, I must admit) but when I get back home in the next few days - and if you can wait that long, I can give you a better prognosis as well as some clear pictures if you'd like.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Bigga,

 

That would be awesome especially the pics. I looked at mine and the Heavy bolters and lascanons seem easy enough but the Hurricane bolters and Missiles seem like they could be a pain. I've got large Magnets so that isn't a problem  and the bombs seem like they could be easy enough. As I said pictures would be greatly appreciated and anyone else with magnetizing Nephilim/Dark Talons I would be grateful.

 

To the OP sorry I kind of stole this from ya didn't mean to if you'd like me to move it I will.

[oldmanlee]

no problem im kind of intrested on how to magnitize the thing myself

[Biggabertha]

A crazy thing a friend suggested to me once before, was using stick-on Velcro strips cut to size. While not maintaining any satisfactory level of stability... it could actually work for the Blacksword Missiles/Hurricane Bolters as they are fairly static in their housing.

 

I'll have to look into that when I get the chance because I can imagine velcro being a lot less painful to reapply/remove/cover up if there are any mishaps in comparison to magnets.

[AngelVeto]

There was a thread a brother made when they first came out about magnetizing it. Was made rather well and very detailed.

[Bryan Blaire]

Brother Dean's Magnetizing your Nephilim/Dark Talon thread.