Do you think arjac is worth his points?

[Roma]

If you believe he is worth it, please describe in which situations you think he is good, aka:

*leading a specific squad by splitting off

*staying with his WG squad (size/equipment)

*Footslogging, drop podding (please exclude landraider deathstars)?

As I see it: PROS

*5 attacks on the first round of a combat

*good gear

*not an IC, so cant be picked out

*character, can benefit from LOS, etc

*throwing hammer is lovely for some extra damage

CONS

*Expensive

*has to accept/issue challenges, wastes 2 extra storm shield+assault/counterratack attacks killing a puny sergeant OR can end up having to fight Abbadon or whatever

*only 2 wounds

PLEASE LETS KEEP THIS REALISTIC, only veteran advice please, and him looking cool isnt a reason

[Marshall Bretton]

drop podding next to an extremely unpleasant superheavy (a baneblade in my case) and destroying it first turn by throwing his hammer at it

 

nuf said :p

[dswanick]

drop podding next to an extremely unpleasant superheavy (a baneblade in my case) and destroying it first turn by throwing his hammer at it

nuf said

Odds of occuring : 0.6%

Awesome factor : over 9000!

I use Arjac in larger-points 40k games as a Pack Leader for my 10-man Grey Hunter pack being led by a Wolf Priest w/ Saga of the Hunter. People get all kinds of disconcerted when this unit turns up in their Deployment Zone.

[DanPesci]

Ive played him coming out of a drop pod with termies a couple times. Once did really well and crushed a load of deathwing, then crushed belial in a challenge. Second time they came on, had a really bad round of shooting, and then got A LOT of return fire, killing all but 1.

 

He's really good in taking down enemy characters..am i not right in thinking that they FAQ'd him so he has to challenge if its possible?

[irwit]

188 points gets you a pretty decent wolf lord in tda with more wounds.  Id go for that personally considering wolves can have 4 hq.  

[WolfLordSam]

Arjac and 4 WG in TDA with SS, CF and a CML in a pod. Very survivable, able to do a little(not much, but some) ranged damage, can carve up any or all vehicles they encounter, and can bog down any enemy unit in cc until either they die or the game ends.

[dswanick]

188 points gets you a pretty decent wolf lord in tda with more wounds.  Id go for that personally considering wolves can have 4 hq.  

Nope. Just to equip one would cost 250pts (tda, th, ss, wtk, sotb) and looses you S10, the AP1 shot, the innate rerolls, and sotb for a Thunderwolf Lord.

[Quillen]

Correct me if I am wrongbut Termy armor can not sneak right? I thought I remember it in the game somewhere. So how can Arjac come in the the back? He is a termy.

[Grey Mage]

Correct me if I am wrongbut Termy armor can not sneak right? I thought I remember it in the game somewhere. So how can Arjac come in the the back? He is a termy.

Well theres Drop Pods, and then theres Bran Redmaw....

 

Id say hes worth it for his points IF your opponent has a decent CC character for him to face off against, or is packing AV 14- like landraiders. Thankfully any marine plentiful meta is going to be full of that....

 

Id also say hes a good backup if you dont want to drop the points to really kit out a wolf lord, but DO want someone to fill the role of CC badass/anti character hunter when your primary HQ is a single Rune Priest. Hes just an amazing bodygaurd. And sure, thats alot of points on a bodygaurd, but the RP does provide psychic defense over a large area, and he does it in quite the offensive fashion.

[dswanick]

Correct me if I am wrongbut Termy armor can not sneak right? I thought I remember it in the game somewhere. So how can Arjac come in the the back? He is a termy.

In this you are wrong. A model in TDA can't take Saga of the Hunter, but the Wolf Priest has that not Arjac.

[Guest Drekkan]

where have you guys seen that a model in tda can't use soth ?

 

I keep reading the rules and can't find anything supporting this pov.

[Russ Brother 92]

Page 35 C:SW - under all entries for models that can take SoTH it has an asterix and states "*May only be be taken by a model in power armour that does not have a jump pack or Space Marine bike" - this is why it also throws up arguments around whether a Wolf Priest in Runic Armour can use the SoTH (but not going into that as it's ot).

The key ruling here is that quite simply a unit MUST have power armour (or some form of it - imo. including runic) to take SoTH, they must not be on a bike, jump pack or terminator armour (all too loud to be sneaky)...

I think he is just about worth the points, he can be used a good 'shield' for your lord - especially if facing off against high I high S enemy characters (daemon princes, abaddon, dark elder etc.) - and is pretty good at holding his own - the sad part is that perhaps he's just an overpriced TH/SS terminator, he's not quite a battle leader in stats and far from a lord.



 

[dswanick]

Page 35 C:SW - under all entries for models that can take SoTH it has an asterix and states "*May only be be taken by a model in power armour that does not have a jump pack or Space Marine bike" - this is why it also throws up arguments around whether a Wolf Priest in Runic Armour can use the SoTH (but not going into that as it's ot).

The key ruling here is that quite simply a unit MUST have power armour (or some form of it - imo. including runic) to take SoTH, they must not be on a bike, jump pack or terminator armour (all too loud to be sneaky)...

 

And the key part of this key point is that only the IC unit taking the saga must have power armor. Nothing prevents him from then joining a unit with non-power armored models(else he aouldnt be able to join Wolf Scouts.

I think he is just about worth the points, he can be used a good 'shield' for your lord - especially if facing off against high I high S enemy characters (daemon princes, abaddon, dark elder etc.) - and is pretty good at holding his own - the sad part is that perhaps he's just an overpriced TH/SS terminator, he's not quite a battle leader in stats and far from a lord.

 

He is vastly superior to a TH/SS Wolf Guard, and as a challenge fighter he is argueably superior to a comparably equipped (and significantly more expensive IC).

[Guest Drekkan]

Page 35 C:SW - under all entries for models that can take SoTH it has an asterix and states "*May only be be taken by a model in power armour that does not have a jump pack or Space Marine bike" - this is why it also throws up arguments around whether a Wolf Priest in Runic Armour can use the SoTH (but not going into that as it's ot).

 

The key ruling here is that quite simply a unit MUST have power armour (or some form of it - imo. including runic) to take SoTH, they must not be on a bike, jump pack or terminator armour (all too loud to be sneaky)...

 

true, my bad.

[irwit]

 

 

Page 35 C:SW - under all entries for models that can take SoTH it has an asterix and states "*May only be be taken by a model in power armour that does not have a jump pack or Space Marine bike" - this is why it also throws up arguments around whether a Wolf Priest in Runic Armour can use the SoTH (but not going into that as it's ot).

The key ruling here is that quite simply a unit MUST have power armour (or some form of it - imo. including runic) to take SoTH, they must not be on a bike, jump pack or terminator armour (all too loud to be sneaky)...

 

And the key part of this key point is that only the IC unit taking the saga must have power armor. Nothing prevents him from then joining a unit with non-power armored models(else he aouldnt be able to join Wolf Scouts.

I think he is just about worth the points, he can be used a good 'shield' for your lord - especially if facing off against high I high S enemy characters (daemon princes, abaddon, dark elder etc.) - and is pretty good at holding his own - the sad part is that perhaps he's just an overpriced TH/SS terminator, he's not quite a battle leader in stats and far from a lord.

 

He is vastly superior to a TH/SS Wolf Guard, and as a challenge fighter he is argueably superior to a comparably equipped (and significantly more expensive IC).

How is he better than a wolf lord with ss and th in tda which is pretty much same cost but better stats?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

 

 

 

Page 35 C:SW - under all entries for models that can take SoTH it has an asterix and states "*May only be be taken by a model in power armour that does not have a jump pack or Space Marine bike" - this is why it also throws up arguments around whether a Wolf Priest in Runic Armour can use the SoTH (but not going into that as it's ot).

The key ruling here is that quite simply a unit MUST have power armour (or some form of it - imo. including runic) to take SoTH, they must not be on a bike, jump pack or terminator armour (all too loud to be sneaky)...

 

And the key part of this key point is that only the IC unit taking the saga must have power armor. Nothing prevents him from then joining a unit with non-power armored models(else he aouldnt be able to join Wolf Scouts.

I think he is just about worth the points, he can be used a good 'shield' for your lord - especially if facing off against high I high S enemy characters (daemon princes, abaddon, dark elder etc.) - and is pretty good at holding his own - the sad part is that perhaps he's just an overpriced TH/SS terminator, he's not quite a battle leader in stats and far from a lord.

 

He is vastly superior to a TH/SS Wolf Guard, and as a challenge fighter he is argueably superior to a comparably equipped (and significantly more expensive IC).

How is he better than a wolf lord with ss and th in tda which is pretty much same cost but better stats?

A wolf lord in tda with th ss sotb and a wtn costs 235 which means you pay 47 more points for a similar wolf lord with a slightly better statline than arjac, but a lower strength so his th is only s8, and who cannot use his hammer as a ranged weapon. I think arjac is a bargain for his points if u need a cc guy but don't feel like goin in for a wolf lord.

[Roma]

While possibly better than a wolf lord, he is the same cost as 10 GH with a wolf banner, 2 plasma guns , and a MOTW.

 

They are tougher to kill, better in cc and at range, and are troops. Can anyone thing of a justification? Seems kinda hard to justify anything but the incredibly cost efficient GH and necessary upgrades.

[dswanick]

While possibly better than a wolf lord, he is the same cost as 10 GH with a wolf banner, 2 plasma guns , and a MOTW.

They are tougher to kill, better in cc and at range, and are troops. Can anyone thing of a justification? Seems kinda hard to justify anything but the incredibly cost efficient GH and necessary upgrades.

Yeah, Arjac can join that Grey Hunter pack as a Character giving them more than double the CC power, protecting an attached IC from challenges, and giving them a native Ld9.

[Roma]

You can use the pack leader as challenge fodder for a IC though...

I don't see how he gives more cc power than 10 gh+motw

[Wulfebane]

You can use the pack leader as challenge fodder for a IC though...

I don't see how he gives more cc power than 10 gh+motw

Never underestimate the power of intimidation. Arjac is a beast individually; even if your GH pack can drop more dice overall, the few dice Arjac drops will most definitely devastate the target, and your opponent will fear and respect him ever more from it.

[Grey Mage]

While possibly better than a wolf lord, he is the same cost as 10 GH with a wolf banner, 2 plasma guns , and a MOTW.

 

They are tougher to kill, better in cc and at range, and are troops. Can anyone thing of a justification? Seems kinda hard to justify anything but the incredibly cost efficient GH and necessary upgrades.

I could say that about almost every character in the codex, so Im not sure its really a big deal. Theres a reason that one HQ is a requirement.

[Roma]

So grey mage, are you saying he is'ntt worth it?

 

After all he can't even be the sole HQ, so this isn't a competition of who is the best character.

[Grey Mage]

Not... per se. What Im saying is that there are times when the expense IS worth it, or all anyone would ever take are grey hunters. Wich, to be fair... half my points are always in GHs, if not a lil more.

 

Certain units/models allow our squads to get their jobs done better by being better at something quite particularly. Arjac is in that category. He holds enemy monsters at bay, keeping your squad alive during an assault they would likely lose during the course of being wiped out. He gives them a shield, and sometimes thats exactly what you need. Hes also offensively capable, and so works well as a sword too- Id certainly consider mixing him into a DPing Meltapack.

 

That doesnt mean youll need him every time of course. But just like a Landspeeder Typhoon, when it works in your overall strategy its worth its points and double.

[skeletoro]

To use a throwaway WGPL as challenge-fodder, you need to actually accept the challenge. If you don't, your opponent can choose to negate your IC's assault actions instead of your WGPL, if they prefer. Which means they really are fodder.

 

Dramatically outclassing an IC's melee capabilities (In challenges, Arjac does this against the vast majority of ICs; just not the real heavy hitters like Abaddon, Lysander, etc) conveys some pretty large benefits. If they turn down the challenge, you're denying them all their attacks at no cost. You still get to beat up their unit. If they accept the challenge, and you truly do outclass them, you're paying back a huge chunk of your points in a single assault phase. The next assault phase, you're likely still shiny and new, and the enemy IC is dead.

 

I think quite a lot can be at stake with challenges.

On the other hand, which IC needs to be protected by Arjac? If it's a Rune Priest, it's not a majorly huge deal to decline and lose your attacks; you're not a melee character anyway and can still use all your psychic powers that turn.

[dswanick]

To use a throwaway WGPL as challenge-fodder, you need to actually accept the challenge. If you don't, your opponent can choose to negate your IC's assault actions instead of your WGPL, if they prefer. Which means they really are fodder.

 

Dramatically outclassing an IC's melee capabilities (In challenges, Arjac does this against the vast majority of ICs; just not the real heavy hitters like Abaddon, Lysander, etc) conveys some pretty large benefits. If they turn down the challenge, you're denying them all their attacks at no cost. You still get to beat up their unit. If they accept the challenge, and you truly do outclass them, you're paying back a huge chunk of your points in a single assault phase. The next assault phase, you're likely still shiny and new, and the enemy IC is dead.

 

I think quite a lot can be at stake with challenges.

On the other hand, which IC needs to be protected by Arjac? If it's a Rune Priest, it's not a majorly huge deal to decline and lose your attacks; you're not a melee character anyway and can still use all your psychic powers that turn.

Or a Wolf Priest, who is tuned for killing normal dudes, but who struggles against true melee specialists.