I'm about to dip into something a little stinky...

[Prot]

It's been years since I played Deathguard. I'm having a game shortly but this one won't be random. A guy wanting to test a tournament list wants a crack at me.

 

I won't put my list here, but what I plan to do is go pure (well almost pure) Nurgle. I'm a bit surprised as I kind of see some Legions as slightly limiting. I mean saying you're playing "Deathguard' is dedicating towards a mark, or even perhaps towards a style of play.

 

I'm making an 1850 list that includes some of my favorite units and some goofy ideas that fit the theme. I'm wondering as Deathguard players do you typically avoid certain units for any reason? Like for instance, do you play with Raptors? Must everything be marked? Just curious about that.

 

Any way I hope this will be fun and I hope to follow up with a short report (kind of like I've done in my Iron Warriors thread) and see what massive mistakes I make with the kings o' stink!

 

Wish me luck...

[TheDevourer]

I wouldn´t say avoid certain units. For me personally I seem to be drawn towards certain units as a Nurgle player. Spawn, Zombies, Typhus, Organic Heldrakes, Obliterators, Mutilators. 

Going to try some new random stuff out myself tomorrow. Trying to fit everything into a list that I haven´t played yet. Talking Fiends, Possessed, Warp Talons, Raptors, Full Csm Squads just for a change. 

 

And no, for nurgles sake, I wouldn´t advise you to mark everything and anything. It´s such a point sink. Mark multiple wound models, but otherwise I would probably avoid it.

 

Concerning Raptors, I don´t see why Nurgle forces wouldn´t use them. We aren´t limited to death guard only tactics after all. 

 

Look forward to your insight, had fun reading your Iron Warrior thread, may Nurgleth bless your path.

[Prot]

Thanks for the  Nurgle blessings! It was a weird game, as I didn't know what I was doing with some units. Actually part way into a game I asked for a 'reset' because I had so badly screwed up some of the rules on some units. (This is the disadvantage of playing so many different armies!)

 

So we played 1850pts. He was playing Blood Angels and trying something a bit different:

 

Librarian (diviniation, stayed with Dev squad)

Dev Squad Las/missiles

3 x Tactical squads. 1 Squad in a drop pod. Combat squaded the others with heavy weapons (Plasma cannons)

Razorback w/Hvy Bolters

2 Dreadnoughts, 1 with frag launcher, heavy flamer, 1 'Blender' dread with the dual claws (nasty). Both in Pods.

Predator with Autocanon, las sponsons.

Pred with Assault cannon, hvy bolters

Storm Raven flyer - twin Las, M.Melta, heavy bolter

Aegis wall w/ Quad gun.

 

My list Deathguard:

Typhus w/Termie squad

4 Termies, MoN, 2 combi Plas, 2 combi Melta, 2 axes, 2 mauls

7 Deathguard, 2 plasma guns, axe, Rhino

2 x 10 plague zombie squads

Aegis, Quad Gun

Heldrake Bale

4 Bikes, MoN, Plasma, Melta, Champ w/Axe

6 Havoks, Votlw, 4 Autocannons

2 Oblits, MoN

2 Oblits, MoN

2 x Spawns, MoN

1 Mutilator MoN

1 Mutilator MoN

 

If anyone reading this has seen my Iron Warrior thread, you can see I'm using a fair chunk of new units. That's part of why I'm doing this. I literally am trying to give a shot at all the units in the codex (except main characters) and see what happens. This takes me into a new area of heavily marked units (where I normally play vanilla with Votlw.) To keep with the Nurgle spring fashion I've included the spawns and single model units of Mutilators.

 

The Setup:

 

We had 5 x 3 point Objectives on the table. We deployed on the long edge of the table, I gave my opponent first turn. Away he went ahead and deployed his Librarian and Devs in a building on my far right... backing up  a second- the table was mostly city scape. Some blown up tanks scattered with some razor wire fences, and about 5-6 partially destroyed buildings which we agreed would be 4+ cover area terrain.

 

So his fire base seemed to focus on the left side of the table which I found strange. He put his Aegis down on the ground and had some tacticals manning the Quad. Also on my left was the Razorback and Assault Pred. (There was a 1 level ruin that partially blocked LoS right in the center of the table, he was more or less straddling that.) He put the remainder of his tanks on the right side of a large building on his edge of the table, and included his plasma Tacticals on the second floor of that ruin.

 

I decided to remove some of his army from the start of the fight anyway, by putting down my Aegis and Zombies on my very right edge (devs were out of range). I then used a 3 storey ruin to block LOS and essentially create a blocking wall that gave me a quadrant on my corner to deploy in. (even though I had the whole edge, I stuck to this corner as I decided to play it like Mortarion would and get the very best out of my infantry by setting them up for counter punch.

 

Early Game:

 

He went first and the first turn would be a nail biter. His 2 dreads slammed down in my little quadrant. Most of my squads as mentioned were deployed in my corner. He basically ignored the Zombies in the corner with the quad, but he put out the two dreads right along side all my infantry which was hugging that 3 storey building. So I was bunched up, however, knowing he had 2 pods coming in, I was in a position where my Rhino was blocking an edge, and the spawns were 'guarding' my exposed flank. So he was about to unleash a ton of firepower, Frag launchers, flamers, etc, when I said wait.... Let me fire my Quad gun...

 

One of the shootier dreads had its back facing my zombies. They lumbered over to the quad gun and the zombie with the most functional digits managed to wrap his rotten fingers around the quad trigger and he blew the dread sky high. Lucky break. I'm not sure there's anything the Blood Angel guy could do to prevent that as he wanted to unload everything on me, exposing his back.

 

This left the 'Blender' dread to fire off his melta which bounced of my stinky rhino. Several other shots were fired, but I faired well and didn't take any casualties due to my positioning.

 

I knew I couldn't hide like this but I did have my eye on some of the objectives. One of the was near that ruin I was huddling beside so one Zombie squad could sit on it, but I had to grab at least 2 more to guarantee a victory!

 

I fired off several shots, killing virtually nothing, except my bikes did flank around the blender dread as far as they could getting one Melta rear shot, and one Plasma side shot. I got lucky on the melta and the dread detonated on a pen 6.

 

 

Mid Game:

 

I should have mentioned this earlier but it's important to note that he had the Warlord trait that gives me -1 on my reserves. So this meant my Mutilators x 2, Oblits x 4,  Typhus and Termies, and Heldrake were still MIA. But finally like the skin giving way on a puss filled boil, all my reserves came gushing in!

 

His flyer is in, but doesn't have a lot of heavy targets as I'm mostly doing this Mortarion style; stinky infantry.  He did blow up the rhino, he really wanted those deathguard on foot. And he got it pretty early in the game. The deathguard would be slogging it to one objective right in front of his 3 story ruin, but I had to get reinforcements there or I wouldn't last.

 

I got pretty ballsy at this point. I decided it was that moment in the game where I would make a massive infantry push and see what I could over run... picking off his weaker units, I focused fired the Tacticals with Plasma Cannon and almost wiped them to a man. His Drop pod came in and I had 2 oblits drop on his side of the pod (very risky) and my Bikers zoom up on my side of his Tactical pod. The bikers took enough down that I calculated that I could at least tie them up in close combat so the Oblits could now turn their attention to the Annihilator Pred 6" beside them. My opponent questioned the Oblits using Twin-linked Melta, but we settled that and I continued to take my 'overpowered unit' and put one glance on the Pred. D'oh! Those Oblits are looking like snotlings after the game if this keeps up.

 

The Drop pods (x3) were still alive and they took pot shots at my Zombies which shrugged off a good number of the shots but I could see this would be a problem with me only having 3 troops, I needed to keep enough of these meat shields alive for the Objectives. So the footslogging Deathguard started to plasma them away, slowly... as I missed a LOT of shots, but the glances added up.

 

His Quad gun blew up my Quad gun, leaving my defenseless against the Stormraven which was now shooting at my Havok Autocannon squad, but I got my 4+ cover saves. Two floors below the Zombies were getting restless without a quad gun to man, so the Havoks sent them out in search of the Objective which was now supported by my Oblits, and Bikes.

 

The Bikes continued to assault the Tactical squad. The Biker Champ challenged a Blood Angel seargent and struck him to the ground with an axe. Apparently this seargent barely passed the officer's exam and was largely ridiculed by his fellow Blood Angels because the result on the "Boon Table" was - no reward/insignificant offering. Useless Blood Angel!!!

 

Late Game:

 

Finally the big man, Typhus comes in, and the remaining 2 Oblits, the Mutilators and the Heldrake. I broke cover, my 2 spawns hopped over the center ruin on my edge to threaten the Assault Pred, and Razorback with BA in it. Surprisingly my opponent backed away from the Spawns a foot. He did shoot one spawn up and kill it, but this 'retreat' showed me he wasn't going to be able to grab the objective right in front of the spawns. I jumped the last spawn back on the other side of the ruin for now....

 

The Oblits came down and fired up a pile of guys manning the quad gun. Typhus past his test for the AP2, 4+ Poisoned large blast, and placed it in the ruin with the remaining Plasma Cannon tactical squad. (I landed right in the center of the ruin, and took all the necessary Dangerous Terrain tests.) The Mutilators prepared to surround the Librarian and the Razorback which was retreating from my spawn.

 

A moment of truth.... the Heldrake zooms in my left edge stopping a foot away from the third floor of the ruin which has the dev squad/librarian in it which have largely been out of the game thus far. He fires his quad gun and gets one glance, the Daemon save actually works for the first time in ages....(on a glance). The Heldrake wounds the entire squad which was seriously bunched up. I apologized to my opponent for that.. but I had to do it as there was no way I could reach him otherwise without being shot to death.

 

One Oblit went down to massed firepower behind the Aegis. This was meant to be a distraction as the surviving Oblit, and Mutilator were surrounding the area so Typhus could mop up the center ruin, and leave the objective for the Deathguard marines and now advanced on the Aegis wall.

 

Typhus' squad took many heavy shots in this game, but never lost a guy from either termie saves or cover saves. Tyhpus cast a Malediction (palsy) on the remaining tacticals fleeing like Blood Angels often do (?) when faced with wheezing marines with runny noses. He hit them with -1 Strength, and -1 Toughness. They continued to run right in range of one of my Mutliators which killed 3 in close combat, not suffering a wound. Typhus slammed into the other side of them.... but would not get to swing.

 

The remaining 2 bikes blew up the Razorback, and the other Mutilator slammed into them taking them down to 3 men from 5. The Deathguard camped an objective, the zombies continued to limp their way out of the Aegis wall into an objective and finally the other Zombie squad sat on their objective.

 

The lone librarian (minus his Dev squad) continued to flee down the stairs of the ruin into the waiting arms of a single, wounded, Obliterator. The Obliterator said something distorted that the Librarian asked him to repeat, the response was a plasma shot in the face. This left his flank completely collapsed and we called it a game before an 'official' wipe was committed... no point in continuing... we shook hands.

 

Post Game:

 

I liked this list a lot. Some of it seemed somewhat dysfunctional, and I didn't know what to do with some of it. Zombies (fearless!) managing a quad gun seemed like a smart thing to do. I can' t do this with my Iron Warriors as the buggers die so damn fast and they run like chickens with their heads cut off. Another great but massively expensive unit was the Deathguard (Plague Marines). Super expensive but I think I only lost one. Several times I'd roll literally 1-1-2 on a fist full of saves, then Feel No Pain would save 2 if not all of them. I know it was luck, but still pretty cool.

 

Typhus getting 2 Nurgle psychic powers instead of that stupid normal rule of having to take something from the main book first is really actually quite good. Being a Termie stuck in deep strike, it gives him a force multiplier possibility while he hunts down something to do as most units simply ran from him. He and his unit literally become sheep herders at that point, but at least he could do something thanks to psyker powers. I think he could suck against future eldar, and definitely against Necrons, but what doesn't?

 

BIkes were gold, Oblits were 'ok', the Heldrake wasn't a big factor, but the one unit it hit was decimated. It's hard to pick one star from this game, but I will say the troops -feel- MUCH more effective in this list than if I took the same 3 units with Iron Warriors. Zombies are just so much superior than cultists, even at the cost of Tyhpus. Deathguard as troops is an unnecessary bonus in this list. Lots of Zombies could have been had instead but they still played an important role. Mutilators did much more than I thought. I think the list has to be well suited to them though as they don't actually act autonomously very well.

 

It was a fun game that had a lot of ebbs and flows. I had to be very cautious in the beginning but it all worked out.

[TheDevourer]

Congrats. Looking over your list, I would criticize the small spawn size, make them 4 if not 5 and to be honest typhus is better in a big blob of zombies otherwise his squad is just much to expensive considering they probably won t reach close combat (a 20 man squad of zombies is next to nothing). As you mentioned it probablywould be better to be rid of the plague marines and buff up on zombies in future games, but it seems that you play in a more friendly environment, so I´m not sure how far you would want to go with list optimizing (I had to chuckle when you apologized for using the drake :D). 

 

And yes mutilators can work wonders sometime, somehow. I´m always shocked by their performance considering everyone seems to think they are a sub par unit.

 

The list as a whole doesn´t seem to build together very well. As you said you tried a great deal of new units, and of course they won´t function well together. 

 

If you want to check out how my list performed yesterday, I uploaded a short battle rep yesterday in my painting thread.

 

I wish you many more enjoyable games with grandfather nurgle and look forward to reading more battle reps.

[Prot]

Congrats. Looking over your list, I would criticize the small spawn size, make them 4 if not 5 and to be honest typhus is better in a big blob of zombies otherwise his squad is just much to expensive considering they probably won t reach close combat (a 20 man squad of zombies is next to nothing). As you mentioned it probablywould be better to be rid of the plague marines and buff up on zombies in future games, but it seems that you play in a more friendly environment, so I´m not sure how far you would want to go with list optimizing (I had to chuckle when you apologized for using the drake ).

Thank you! The environment is friendly, but make no mistake it's usually competitive. This guy was playing his Tournament Blood Angels but I honestly don't know what to think of what he was doing.... he claimed he wanted to try a firebase BA list and I simply can't understand that. The other BA player I've had many a run in with usually finishes top 5 in tournies with his 'descent of angels' list and it is very nasty. This guy wanted to try something different.

Yea, the Spawns seemed blah to me. I didn't know what the heck to do with them, and I tried threatening a flank and it failed, so I used them as meatshields for Zombies/Deathguard, but as you noted, I did not have near enough to make it work.

We may have different views on list building though as I've never really played monotone lists. I prefer taking my chances in several areas of strategy rather than bulking up one angle of attack. (IE: I never liked the old Iron Warrior 3.5: 9 Oblit, Lt, 3 Defiler lists).

What I did like about Typhus and Termies is combined with 4 oblits and 2 Mutilators I could encircle him and he couldn't really run without getting hit by something.

So list 'optimizing' is perhaps subjective, but I do agree a table full of zombies is definitely a -strong- idea so don't get me wrong, I just have trouble comitting to what I call monotone lists. I just love to see what I can do to challenge myself with 'sub-optimal' lists and units.

But you're right I felt pretty bad for my opponent when I bale-flamed him. He was dying in fistfulls at that point and the only real threat he had left was the Devs/Librarian so it just kind of felt dirty to do that. But I blame him! It was his reserve modifier that made the Heldrake come in so late! SO it's technically his fault he got his face melted. :)

And yes mutilators can work wonders sometime, somehow. I´m always

shocked by their performance considering everyone seems to think they

are a sub par unit.

The list as a whole doesn´t

seem to build together very well. As you said you tried a great deal of

new units, and of course they won´t function well together.

If you want to check out how my list performed yesterday, I uploaded a short battle rep yesterday in my painting thread.

I wish you many more enjoyable games with grandfather nurgle and look forward to reading more battle reps.

Yes Mutilators...so nice. Toughness 6 bikes for support? Nice as well. It gives the list a sense of never being out of it because of all the Deepstriking.

I already read your batrep and enjoyed it! Multiplayer games are always a mosh pit of destruction.

I don't know how many games I'll do with these guys, as I'm 'supposed' to be painting Iron Warriors! But I have to tell you, the -core- of this list felt better. My troops didn't feel as much like.... a boat anchor. They had more staying power, and were absolutely more reliable. I am seriously tempted to switch gears here to Deathguard. Playing IW seems best as a minimalist which I am good at..... very few points spent on anything in particular, and an interesting strategy results. Deathguard seem the opposite almost..... huge point sinks are your power units, with proper support in place via Zombies. Very interesting.

In the meantime I took up Dark Angels and had a report in that forum too. It was a really fun list as I love termies. So I'm seriously torn right now. lol

Thanks for checking this out and giving me some advice. I appreciate it.

[TheDevourer]

Always like helping out fellow players ;). 

To be honest I love playing all kinds of "sub-optimal" units, however I love zombies, so I kind of ended up fielding what I field now thanks to personal preference. Also, I was told that the list was sub optimal quite a few times, until I beat people with the list. I still haven´t lost so far which is a bonus I suppose. I´ve also been through alot of other units to get to this list though. Played havoc spam, mutilators, termis with typhus, bikes, spawns. All kinds of nurgle stuff to be honest. 

 

Staying power is nurgle. Cheap troops that aren´t really worth killing, but still need to be killed because of their objective holding power.

 

To be honest the monotone thing works best when going for an allround kind of build. It leaves the game as a kind of rock paper scissors run. You win some and lose some. In mixed armies you may not win any, due to not being specialized in some areas. But as I said I love zombies and I kind of optimized my list around them. Rather than trying to build a hard list in the first place. ;)

 

I will also agree, that the BA list seemed meh at the very most, I´m also puzzled as to what he was trying there. But hey, maybe he´ll make something interesting out of it after a few more games.

 

Glad you enjoyed my Bat Rep. And to be honest I only really play teamtag tournies at the moment. They just seem a lot more interesting than solo tournies. Also alot more fun if you play against the right opponents ;)

[Prot]

Yea I can see the Zombie thing is just really potent.

 

Since I played this game I've made quite a few lists some are head-to-head so to speak with what I can build with Iron Warriors vs what I can do with the same concept with Deathguard. Deathguard wins almost every time.... why? Zombies.  Every list I make even with 3 medium sized zombie squads gives me an immense head start over the Iron Warriors EVEN with just a Warpsmith HQ.

 

It really is something. When I make an Iron Warrior list that's mean to be as thrifty on troops, I simply can't just make them Cultists because I know they'll bloody run, and won't start up with out any FnP saves.  Even with the list I made where I had 2 Zombie lists and one Plague Marine squad, it was thrifty enough to offset Typhus who really is a decent character.

 

I am seriously considering switching over at this point. The freedom of the Zombies, and the 'fun factor' of Typhus is really tempting. Plus the mark, although expensive, is really decent on a few units.

[Xenith]

Yea I can see the Zombie thing is just really potent.

 

Since I played this game I've made quite a few lists some are head-to-head so to speak with what I can build with Iron Warriors vs what I can do with the same concept with Deathguard. Deathguard wins almost every time.... why? Zombies.  Every list I make even with 3 medium sized zombie squads gives me an immense head start over the Iron Warriors EVEN with just a Warpsmith HQ.

 

Nice reports. I'm feeling the same. I want some of that zombie goodness, and will be making a IW Slave-master for Typhus. My Warsmith gets annoyed when they ran out of meat shields so summoned someone who can work out a way to bring them back so they can serve again.

[minigun762]

Yea I can see the Zombie thing is just really potent.

 

Since I played this game I've made quite a few lists some are head-to-head so to speak with what I can build with Iron Warriors vs what I can do with the same concept with Deathguard. Deathguard wins almost every time.... why? Zombies.  Every list I make even with 3 medium sized zombie squads gives me an immense head start over the Iron Warriors EVEN with just a Warpsmith HQ.

 

It really is something. When I make an Iron Warrior list that's mean to be as thrifty on troops, I simply can't just make them Cultists because I know they'll bloody run, and won't start up with out any FnP saves.  Even with the list I made where I had 2 Zombie lists and one Plague Marine squad, it was thrifty enough to offset Typhus who really is a decent character.

 

I am seriously considering switching over at this point. The freedom of the Zombies, and the 'fun factor' of Typhus is really tempting. Plus the mark, although expensive, is really decent on a few units.

I know some people are having good success with basic cultists in CSM lists but I fail to see how they live up to the hype. Lack of Fearlessness is the biggest drawback and zombies do wonders at fixing that. Typhus is even halfway decent for an HQ, I think he compares well against the generic claw & fist lord.

[Ederan]

Hey there!! Sounds like you had a great game!! I myself played iron warriors for a number of years, but with the release of 5th edition I started giving my units mark of nurgle for the extra staying power, and it wasn't long before I fully switched to Deathguard. My biggest worry going in...I was always grossly outnumbered by the array of cheaper (points wise) armies I regularly play against. And yes, your faith in Plague Marines will be well rewarded. I don't think I've lost more then one whole unit in a game, and I field 3 minimum with a powerfist, 2 meltas or one melta and a flamer, 8 men strong and a rhino when I have the points. Expensive but while my opponents out number me everytime, they find it rather annoying to wound on 5s or more commonly 6s without dedicating weapons/units meant for other elements of my army. I also field EVERYTHING with the Mark if its available to them. Keeps my havocs in the game that much longer to pop those flyers and any other armour/mc.

[Prot]

Well I think I'll probably be retiring my Chaos efforts for a little while at least while the shifty Eldar are being released. But yea after playing the Zombie style troops vs. cultists there is no comparison. It's really annoying actually!

 

I like the twist of a 'slave-master' for IW. But I would probably go full deathguard, and I can't do that as I have too much invested in 10 years of Iron Warrior collecting. Although I was cleaning my 'closet of shame' and I found 3 boxes of metal Deathguard! Couldn't believe it! One box still in plastic wrap, and 2 squads partially assembled. I found a Typhus as well. And you're right, Typhus is very decent, especially with the Nurgle psychic powers.

[Chaeron]

 

Yea I can see the Zombie thing is just really potent.

 

Since I played this game I've made quite a few lists some are head-to-head so to speak with what I can build with Iron Warriors vs what I can do with the same concept with Deathguard. Deathguard wins almost every time.... why? Zombies.  Every list I make even with 3 medium sized zombie squads gives me an immense head start over the Iron Warriors EVEN with just a Warpsmith HQ.

 

It really is something. When I make an Iron Warrior list that's mean to be as thrifty on troops, I simply can't just make them Cultists because I know they'll bloody run, and won't start up with out any FnP saves.  Even with the list I made where I had 2 Zombie lists and one Plague Marine squad, it was thrifty enough to offset Typhus who really is a decent character.

 

I am seriously considering switching over at this point. The freedom of the Zombies, and the 'fun factor' of Typhus is really tempting. Plus the mark, although expensive, is really decent on a few units.

I know some people are having good success with basic cultists in CSM lists but I fail to see how they live up to the hype. Lack of Fearlessness is the biggest drawback and zombies do wonders at fixing that. Typhus is even halfway decent for an HQ, I think he compares well against the generic claw & fist lord.

 

I concur, but you'll still struggle to be that competitive with sinking all those points into Zombies. Lots of stalemates abound...

[minigun762]

I concur, but you'll still struggle to be that competitive with sinking all those points into Zombies. Lots of stalemates abound...

True but how many zombie squads do you need?

I like the image of the 100+ horde but since they have next to zero offensive abilities, it seems prudent to only take enough to claim your home objectives safely and use the rest of the points on aggressive plague marine squads for claiming new objectives.

 

At least that's the basic idea I'm working with, but I'm using Plaguebearers and CSMs instead.

[Chaeron]

 

I concur, but you'll still struggle to be that competitive with sinking all those points into Zombies. Lots of stalemates abound...

True but how many zombie squads do you need?

I like the image of the 100+ horde but since they have next to zero offensive abilities, it seems prudent to only take enough to claim your home objectives safely and use the rest of the points on aggressive plague marine squads for claiming new objectives.

 

At least that's the basic idea I'm working with, but I'm using Plaguebearers and CSMs instead.

 

Yes, the only issue being with Typhus and the appropriate 35 strong mob (realistic) is tottering about 400pts. That's a lot for what, in essence, is a delivery system for your pricey HQ.

 

Again, as you say, would prefer to be investing in Plague Marines, the very crux of our army, instead!

[Prot]

400 pts isn't really -that- much when you consider you're getting a pretty decent HQ. I got so fixated on 'zombies' that anything Typhus did felt like... almost a bonus. But he was better than I gave him credit for, and I found him and a Termie retinue were my kind of style (not for everyone, but I seem to have a thing for the termies.)

 

I do agree though depending on the point value you have to be very careful just how many cultists make sense. I would suggest going to 'base' marines, or Plague Marines for your more aggressive units to help out Tyhpus.

 

I like the idea of trying to do an Iron Warrior equivalent to this army. I could do a termie Lord comperable to Typhus and the 'zombies' could just be cultists with the techno virus or bionics, etc.

 

But again I truly value the zombies and my experiences with the 'normal' cultist have been pretty cruddy. I've had games where I don't have to babysit them, and I've had games where they're just a big headache.... regardless, zombies you gotta kill to the last. The tarpit is just one use.

 

Now Eldar are out and while I await my massive pre-order I'll probably be delaying most Chaos projects. One thing that hit me was the AP2 ability of so many units (allegedly) that really hurts my terminator love. :/

[Chaeron]

My criticsm would be in a 1500-1850pts game (most common here for tournaments etc.) you are spending nearly 1/3 to 1/4 (approximately) of your points on that delivery system. It's a "decent" HQ, but putting him against other options it doesn't look as good! I love Zombies and the concept - but I feel that it isn't the optimum way to spend points (especially when there are Plague Marines itching to be deployed...).