Polaria Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I've been thinking about adding some Fortifications to my Chaos arsenal but I was thinking of personalizing them past the "add spikes" theme... Or, rather, using other models altogether.So, how would you feel about using these as Bastion and Defense Line:http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=170997&d=1368858012&thumb=1http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=170998&d=1368858084&thumb=1Also, how should this rulesbook text be interpreted: "Weapons: Four emplaced heavy bolters (typically one on each facing)" (BRB p.116)Does the "typically" -part mean that you can actually mount them any way you wish, like two, three or all four per side or in corners? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Typically, well its not strong language. Do what you like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 In a friendly game, why not? So long as both players agree, it shouldn't matter. In a competitive context however, the answer will be no. The Aegis Defence Line is a wall, not a trench - so a model should only get cover from one direction (the front). A trench-line on the other hand offers cover from two directions (in front and behind) and the Wall of Martyrs is a trench-line. The lengths of each section are also different from an Aegis, so will cover a different length of the table. The Bunker is a fortification with a completely different visual profile to a Bastion. It has different access points and no mountings for the Heavy Bolters. It's essentially the same as turning up and saying "you see these Guardsmen, well they're actually Terminators, hope you don't mind." In a friendly game, your opponent might just say OK, but if it's a competitive one, he probably won't. As far as placing the weapons is concerned, I didn't like the "sponson" look of the Bastion so did this: http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r358/MatthewDaunt/BastionandAegisDefenseLine.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaria Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 In a friendly game, why not? So long as both players agree, it shouldn't matter. In a competitive context however, the answer will be no. The Aegis Defence Line is a wall, not a trench - so a model should only get cover from one direction (the front). A trench-line on the other hand offers cover from two directions (in front and behind) and the Wall of Martyrs is a trench-line. The lengths of each section are also different from an Aegis, so will cover a different length of the table. The Bunker is a fortification with a completely different visual profile to a Bastion. It has different access points and no mountings for the Heavy Bolters. It's essentially the same as turning up and saying "you see these Guardsmen, well they're actually Terminators, hope you don't mind." In a friendly game, your opponent might just say OK, but if it's a competitive one, he probably won't. As far as placing the weapons is concerned, I didn't like the "sponson" look of the Bastion so did this: http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r358/MatthewDaunt/BastionandAegisDefenseLine.jpg Actually I think the Defense Line would be less of a problem... You can deploy Aegis in a circle so that it also covers the models from all sides in which case its VERY similar to Wall of Martyrs, except for the fact that Wall is shorter and has less height so I can't use it as cover for Vehicles. Can't see why anyone would not allow me to model for disadvantage... By the way, your Bastion seems to be nowhere near as tall as the original is. Have you had trouble over it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 A circle is different to two lines- think about barrage landing in the mIedke for example... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaria Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 A circle is different to two lines- think about barrage landing in the mIedke for example... The difference is irrelevant in this case as Aegis Defence Line cannot be legally deployed into two lines, but can be deployed in circle. Thus anything that counts as should also mirror those deployment restrictions. Wall of Martyrs shape is almost perfect clone of circular Aegis deployment as seen in BRB p. 114. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 And as noted, bastions are purposefully flexable in their shape and footprint and have been since they were released for planetstrike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Polaria - No I've never had a problem. Primarily because whilst it's shorter, and therefore not as easy to draw line of sight to, that lack of height comparatively reduces the ability of the unit on top to see over surrounding terrain. The height related advantages and disadvantages all balance out in other words. Now it's still got the same footprint, the same weapons and the same (single) access point - so works from a WYSIWYG perspective just fine. Besides, I don't use a Bastion that often - they die too easily, and what's inside/on top usually dies with it. The Aegis, however, is an excellent defensive structure, and I use one regularly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaria Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 If you put a minimum unit of Cultists inside a naked Bastion it stays quite cheap for four AV14 heavy bolters, but generally I think you are right. Defence Line is better. Lately I've been taking long and hard look at Skyshield Landing Pad. Its well under 100 points and when the shields are up it gives 4+ invulnerable save, making it superior to Defence Line if you are regularly facing barrage weapons, baleflamers and such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3374717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 The only downside to the skyshield is that you can't take a weapon emplacement, which is one of the main reasons anyone takes a fortification in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275645-fortifications/#findComment-3375195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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