Terminators vs Veteran Squad

[Nortado_Loco]

Having a problem with an allie list. The Dark Angels are my ally in this case. I can either take a Veteran Squad drop pod with 10 Combi Meltas, or I can take a squad of 5 terminators. The Drop pod should give me automatic first blood or at least take out the most annoying thing on the other side of the board. If you were in this situation what would you pick.

[Zombie P]

Why would you take DA veterans? ours are so much better. Who needs 10 Combi Melta anyway! 6 is more than enough, that leaves 3 for each combat squad. Seriously, what you are proposing with the DA veterans is achieved much more easily with our own sternguard. The terminators on the other hand are lovely, and I would recommend those. CML all the way too, btw.

 

ZP

[DarkGuard]

Zombie P is right, our Sternguard Vets are a lot better than the Company Vets of Dark Angels.

 

However, with Terminators it's a different matter. They are more versatile than ours, and Fearless, but they also cost more. IMO the main reason you'd take them is for them being Troops via Belial. But then most of the time, if you're taking Dark Angel allies, you're gunning for the Divination Librarian, which means those Terminators won't be scoring.

 

So definitely not the Veterans, just take our own ones then. With Terminators take our own if you need points and our taking a Libby, if you have the points then they're not a bad buy. Definitely take one or two if you're taking Belial.

[UltraTacSgt]

Don't DA Terminators get to reroll to hit on the turn they deepstrike? Or is that something you get from a DA HQ?

 

 Either way, having a mixed weapons Terminator squad is pretty handy, and should be able to neutralize an enemy threat on landing and continue to cause your foe problems (or at least draw a ton attention away from the rest of your force).

[Disruptor_fe404]

Zombie P is right, our Sternguard Vets are a lot better than the Company Vets of Dark Angels.

 

However, with Terminators it's a different matter. They are more versatile than ours, and Fearless, but they also cost more. IMO the main reason you'd take them is for them being Troops via Belial. But then most of the time, if you're taking Dark Angel allies, you're gunning for the Divination Librarian, which means those Terminators won't be scoring.

 

So definitely not the Veterans, just take our own ones then. With Terminators take our own if you need points and our taking a Libby, if you have the points then they're not a bad buy. Definitely take one or two if you're taking Belial.

 

Belial only makes Deathwing Terminators into Troops if they're all in the Primary Detachment.

[Nortado_Loco]

"Belial only makes Deathwing Terminators into Troops if they're all in the Primary Detachment." 

  ^ Seriously ^ This ^ Makes ^ Me ^ Wanna ^ Cry =,(

 

I was debating between the two because I have Ravenwing Bikes. I can take an Elite choice. My main force ( not going to mention due to I don't like giving out my lists before thorough testing ) is mostly melee based and can't deep strike in. The idea was between the Bikes and the Veterans I can distract the enemy enough to get my other guys up the board. I'm still leaning towards the veterans anyway because they can take out a squad in turn 1 easy.... What if I took 5 combi melta and 5 plasma? Would that be better???

[knife&fork]

If you want scoring terminators and cheap psykers go for GK allies instead. 

[DarkGuard]

 

Zombie P is right, our Sternguard Vets are a lot better than the Company Vets of Dark Angels.

 

However, with Terminators it's a different matter. They are more versatile than ours, and Fearless, but they also cost more. IMO the main reason you'd take them is for them being Troops via Belial. But then most of the time, if you're taking Dark Angel allies, you're gunning for the Divination Librarian, which means those Terminators won't be scoring.

 

So definitely not the Veterans, just take our own ones then. With Terminators take our own if you need points and our taking a Libby, if you have the points then they're not a bad buy. Definitely take one or two if you're taking Belial.

 

Belial only makes Deathwing Terminators into Troops if they're all in the Primary Detachment.

 

I must have missed that bit. Thanks for correcting me. :tu:

 

In which case, only take Deathwing Terminators if you must take Terminators and have the spare points while having taken a DA Libby for Divination.

[Nortado_Loco]

As much as I didn't want to I'm going to make a new thread with my current list on there. Maybe you guys can help me out with some other kinks.

[Toxichobbit]

If you want scoring terminators and cheap psykers go for GK allies instead. 

 

GK are no use if you want psykers. The only reason you want to ally in psykers is to get access to Divination for your army. But, GKs aren't Battle Brothers with anyone, so while they have Divination and can use it on themselves, they can't use it on the rest of your force. Dark Angels on the other hand, are Battle Brothers with most Marines plus Guard, so make much better psyker allies.

[knife&fork]

 

If you want scoring terminators and cheap psykers go for GK allies instead. 

 

GK are no use if you want psykers. The only reason you want to ally in psykers is to get access to Divination for your army. But, GKs aren't Battle Brothers with anyone, so while they have Divination and can use it on themselves, they can't use it on the rest of your force. Dark Angels on the other hand, are Battle Brothers with most Marines plus Guard, so make much better psyker allies.

 

But GK terminators are excellent targets for divination spells. And OM inquisitors are arguably even better value than DA librarians unless you want to give something ATSKNF. 

 

Casting mainly on yourself and your unit means never being out of range or hamstrung by having to stick units together.

[Huginn]

BA libby w/ jp and some DC w/ RB. DC are basically elites in a troop slot.

[DarkGuard]

 

 

 

If you want scoring terminators and cheap psykers go for GK allies instead. 

 

 

GK are no use if you want psykers. The only reason you want to ally in psykers is to get access to Divination for your army. But, GKs aren't Battle Brothers with anyone, so while they have Divination and can use it on themselves, they can't use it on the rest of your force. Dark Angels on the other hand, are Battle Brothers with most Marines plus Guard, so make much better psyker allies.

 

But GK terminators are excellent targets for divination spells. And OM inquisitors are arguably even better value than DA librarians unless you want to give something ATSKNF. 

 

Casting mainly on yourself and your unit means never being out of range or hamstrung by having to stick units together.

It all depends what you want your divination libby to do and the flexibility you want to have with him.

[knife&fork]

 

 

 

 

If you want scoring terminators and cheap psykers go for GK allies instead. 

 

GK are no use if you want psykers. The only reason you want to ally in psykers is to get access to Divination for your army. But, GKs aren't Battle Brothers with anyone, so while they have Divination and can use it on themselves, they can't use it on the rest of your force. Dark Angels on the other hand, are Battle Brothers with most Marines plus Guard, so make much better psyker allies.

 

But GK terminators are excellent targets for divination spells. And OM inquisitors are arguably even better value than DA librarians unless you want to give something ATSKNF. 

 

Casting mainly on yourself and your unit means never being out of range or hamstrung by having to stick units together.

It all depends what you want your divination libby to do and the flexibility you want to have with him.

 

True, but I would argue that a ML1 divination librarian isn't very flexible. The only thing he will reliably do is cast prescience. Any flexibility comes from what he chooses to buff. When talking about units worth giving that reroll I have a hard time coming up with something more versatile than GK terminators!

 

With a TDA OM inquisitor we are looking at a scoring unit with two characters, grenades, 8 psycannon shots (4 of which have precision shot!), a smattering of bolter rounds and a very solid CC punch with a lot of ways to kit. DS capable too and of course 2+ all around.

 

The third wound on the inquisitor gives you more margin on perils which IMHO more than makes up for the T3.   

[DarkGuard]

The flexibility comes in what unit to cast Prescience on. You might not always want to use it on GK Terminators, you may want your bigger guns to have that buff etc. Plus what happens if those GK units die early on, your psyker can't do much then.

 

In general, Dark Angels and Space Marines fit together much better than Grey Knights and Space Marines do, which is why most Marine lists are allying in Dark Angels if they want access to Prescience but don't want to change the list too much.

[knife&fork]

The flexibility comes in what unit to cast Prescience on. 

 

We are both saying the same thing. 

 

This thread was also about taking terminators and GK have the best ones in the game, easy to access too.

[DarkGuard]

 

The flexibility comes in what unit to cast Prescience on. 

 

We are both saying the same thing. 

 

This thread was also about taking terminators and GK have the best ones in the game, easy to access too.

 

Not quite. You're saying that GK Terminators are the most flexible unit to cast Prescience on. I'm saying that the flexibility of Prescience is coming from the having a larger choice of units to cast Prescience onto. It's different. You're speaking about one unit which can fulfil a couple of roles, I'm talking about a multitude of units able to potentially fill even more roles.

 

And I'd dispute that. GK Terminators are good, but with 6th Ed their power weapons aren't as good as they once were. The only weapon worth taking is the psycannon, which means they aren't as good at long ranged combat than Deathwing or C:SM Terminators, both of which can engage multiple targets at 48" range. Furthermore, for deployment Deathwing are better, as they get those bonuses when deep striking, and Split Fire is also a pretty nifty ability for them. The one downside they have is that they can't be scoring.

 

Finally, Assault Terminators are much better in combat than GK Terminators than a lot of things. GK Terminators are good, but they're still expensive, especially if you add lots of upgrades, and their flexibility also means they become a bit "jack of all trades".

 

Furthermore, the OP was about asking which would be better, Deathwing Terminators or a Dark Angel Veteran Squad, which is why most people weren't talking about C:GK. The OP also said he was choosing those units because he was using C:DA for allies, not C:GK.

[knife&fork]

True, but I would argue that a ML1 divination librarian isn't very flexible. The only thing he will reliably do is cast prescience. Any flexibility comes from what he chooses to buff. 

 

 

 I'm saying that the flexibility of Prescience is coming from the having a larger choice of units to cast Prescience onto. 

 

We are saying the same thing. I can't argue against myself. 

 

The relative value of GKTs is a separate issue, one where we obviously value different abilities. 

[DarkGuard]

Ah, fair enough. I was taking your post as a whole where you were saying that the inherent flexibility of GK Terminators with psycannons basically made them the only thing you'd want to buff, while I was saying that there could well be different units you'd want to buff, which you wouldn't be able to do with GK allies. But you are right, we've both said the same thing, but we've backed up it differently for our own arguments.

 

You do make a good points.