Next Blood Angels Codex

[Squirrelloid]

Converting pilots doesn't sound like it would  be that terribly difficult once you have plastics.  I agree, chopping up pewter for that would *suck*, but plastics?  I converted a rhino driver with the then new SM plastics back on the old rhino chassis (before we had any interior sculpting at all, so I had to build an interior with bits as well), and that wasn't even particularly hard.  (Okay, I cheated and didn't actually use legs, but those old rhino chasses were *tiny* inside, there wasn't room for legs!)

[Memento Of Prospero]

Blood angels are not nearly as unhinged as some of you think they are. Khorne Bezerkers don't have that problem and they know a thing or two about bloodlust. People want them to be all about melee because that's what worked in the past for them. But that's not the road the codex needs. There is not a single successful melee centric army in 40k at this time. The current ruleset is dead set against such a model. All in melee armies are not going to come back anytime soon, because there was no counter play.

 

Assault marines shouldn't be beastly in close combat. At the moment they are good at bullying non-cc units. Death company/sternguard deal with things they can't. They are cheap troops/ jump infantry. Look at how much a khorne bezerker costs for a model on foot without any special weapons access.

 

what I'd like to see is: Ability to replace CCW for bolters on ?Assault Marines-> Mobile firebases.

A reduction on JP upgrade for DC.

A Jump Pack Devastator unit, with 4 special weapons. The honour guard somewhat do this, but they come with a serious price tag and no ablative wounds.

Point reduction for the special characters other than Corbulo.

Astorath should allow DC to score instead of allowing multiple units.

 

Something that would be interesting is the ability to use power axes at initiative rather than unwieldy. This would not require our characters to fall in the "eternal warrior or garbage mode". Perhaps only on Independant, named characters and sergeants.

 

The Red thirst needs to change. Rolling for it does not remove the need for a Sanguinary priest nearby due to feel no pain. I think strait up feel no pain would be a better thing to get than furious charge, as FnP is good on all units - furious charge is not.

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

I realize I may be swimming against the tide here a bit, but my hopes for the Blood Angels:

 

I've been playing with the BA since the Angels of Death codex from second edition and I think that my impression of the Blood Angels is still heavily influenced from that time (apologies to any other longtime vets who took away something different from that venerable codex).

 

Back then there was no appreciably difference between Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Ultramarines except for special characters and special units.

 

The core of the army--tacticals, assault marines, devastators--were all the same.  It was emphasized that the Blood Angels are basically a codex adherent chapter, and that the death company were essentially a practical adjustment to compensate for the flaw.  Now, to many people that may seem a little boring compared the modern Blood Angels, but I think that in some ways, the flavor of the army back then is cooler, and I've always strived to make my army feel more like the older conception of the Blood Angels, which is that they strive to be codex adherent, but can't be.  I don't see them as these tactless maniacs who just want to get in the enemy's face--they are still a tactically flexible force--not a dedicated assault army.

 

 

Equipping Blood Angel basic troops with tools for ripping the enemy apart in close combat strikes me as very base and counter to the noble strivings of the chapter.  I think it's much cooler to imagine that it's actually the tactical marines who *sometimes* just lose it and use their combat blades and bare hands to rip apart their enemy in a way that other chapters' assault marines would normally do.  

 

To me, that means that tactical marines--NOT assault marines--should still be the bulk of the Blood Angels.  I like the idea that the Blood Angels are constantly striving towards balance and nobility, but their flaw comes out part of the time, highlighting an ugly underside to their angelic faces.  The death company is that underside shown in full.

 

The more angelic aspects of the army like the Sanguinary Guard and Sanguinor should represent an EXTREMELY rare dimension of the army, akin to actually witnessing a miracle on the battlefield, and nearly as rare a sight to the average Blood Angel tactical marine as a tactical marine is to the average human.  a "Descent of Angels" shouldn't happen too often, you know?  It is the counterweight of the dark side the death company represents.

 

Anyways, just sort of rambling about general character here, but a few years out from our codex that seems like a reasonable place to start.

Blood angels are not nearly as unhinged as some of you think they are. Khorne Bezerkers don't have that problem and they know a thing or two about bloodlust. People want them to be all about melee because that's what worked in the past for them. But that's not the road the codex needs. There is not a single successful melee centric army in 40k at this time. The current ruleset is dead set against such a model. All in melee armies are not going to come back anytime soon, because there was no counter play.

I think you posted this  while I was writing my own post--I so completely agree!!

[Brother Maikel]

Whatever happens, I'd like the BA to continue to be focused on finesse and mobility over brute strength. Fluffwise it makes sense: our primarch had wings and we are devoted to art and elegance rather than brutality or stubbornness. Gameplay-wise it would distinguish us from our C:SM, C:DA, C:SW, and C:GK bretheren, retaining our niche and ensuring we don't end up feeling like "red Ultramarines".

To this effect, were I designing the codex, I'd adopt the following rules (some shamelessly stolen/modified from other posters here )

To reflect our mobility:

* BA marines with Jump Packs may use them in both the movement and assault phases, and may use them to run 2d6" instead of normal.

* BA marines may disembark from a transport that has moved >6", but treat normal ground as difficult terrain and difficult terrain as dangerous terrain. They may also disembark during the shooting phase after the vehicle moved flat-out, but may not shoot or assault this turn if they do so.

* Decent of Angels: After normal reserves are declared, but before models are deployed, any number of units that have this rule may elect to make an Airborne Assault. These units are placed into reserve and automatically arrive on Turn 1. Any units with this rule not making an Airborne Assault scatter d6 less when arriving from deep strike reserve.

To reflect our flaw:

* Red Thirst: BA marines are treated as "Fearless" in CC. If declining a challenge you must first select one friendly C:BA character in the combat to make a Leadership test; if he fails that character automatically accepts the challenge.

* Black Rage: any unit with this rule has the FnP 5+, FC, Rage, Fearless, and Relentless USRs. Prior to deployment, any number of non-vehicle units with this rule may be combined, and units combined in this fashion are treated for all game purposes as a single unit (reserves, kill points, etc).

* I might consider combining Priests and Chaplains. Have them grant FnP, FC and true Fearless in a bubble, and have "High Priests" (read: HQ choices) grant rerolls on the charge. This would be a pretty significant change to the fluff, but I think it would fit our chapter reasonably well.

Other than that, most of the changes I'd make would be minor... giving ASM the option to purchase bolters, giving Death Company the option to buy special weapons, changing prices around to reflect actual utility (Plasma Pistols are way too expensive).

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Whatever happens, I'd like the BA to continue to be focused on finesse and mobility over brute strength. Fluffwise it makes sense: our primarch had wings and we are devoted to art and elegance rather than brutality or stubbornness. Gameplay-wise it would distinguish us from our C:SM, C:DA, C:SW, and C:GK bretheren, retaining our niche and ensuring we don't end up feeling like "red Ultramarines".

To this effect, were I designing the codex, I'd adopt the following rules (some shamelessly stolen/modified from other posters here )

To reflect our mobility:

* BA marines with Jump Packs may use them in both the movement and assault phases, and may use them to run 2d6" instead of normal.

* BA marines may disembark from a transport that has moved >6", but treat normal ground as difficult terrain and difficult terrain as dangerous terrain. They may also disembark during the shooting phase after the vehicle moved flat-out, but may not shoot or assault this turn if they do so.

* Decent of Angels: After normal reserves are declared, but before models are deployed, any number of units that have this rule may elect to make an Airborne Assault. These units are placed into reserve and automatically arrive on Turn 1. Any units with this rule not making an Airborne Assault scatter d6 less when arriving from deep strike reserve.

To reflect our flaw:

* Red Thirst: BA marines are treated as "Fearless" in CC. If declining a challenge you must first select one friendly C:BA character in the combat to make a Leadership test; if he fails that character automatically accepts the challenge.

* Black Rage: any unit with this rule has the FnP 5+, FC, Rage, Fearless, and Relentless USRs. Prior to deployment, any number of non-vehicle units with this rule may be combined, and units combined in this fashion are treated for all game purposes as a single unit (reserves, kill points, etc).

* I might consider combining Priests and Chaplains. Have them grant FnP, FC and true Fearless in a bubble, and have "High Priests" (read: HQ choices) grant rerolls on the charge. This would be a pretty significant change to the fluff, but I think it would fit our chapter reasonably well.

Other than that, most of the changes I'd make would be minor... giving ASM the option to purchase bolters, giving Death Company the option to buy special weapons, changing prices around to reflect actual utility (Plasma Pistols are way too expensive).

I'm a fan of these changes. I particularly like the Priests/Chaplains combo. I think it's likely that the Blood Angels would only have one order to which they look for spiritual guidance. Gamewise it seems reasonable too.

If I had to pick a single thing that I would want to see done for the Blood angels it would probably be to give assault marines access to boltguns.

[sockwithaticket]

Most of what I'd like has been covered really, but here goes anyway. To me the Blood Angels aren't combat monsters, but they are quick, manoeuvrable and skillful with a preference for fighting up close and personal. They are also artificers as per the fluff.

- Dante and Astorath striking at initiative (stupidest thing not to be errata'd...)
- High Sanguinary Priest
- Captains with access to artificer armour and relic blades.

- Master crafted weaponry for HQs

- Elite Chaplains as a 1-3

- Ability to disembark and assault from transports
- Access to Storm Talon and Storm Eagle.

- Furious Charge conveying initiative bump.
- 1d6 scatter for deep striking if using a jump pack, Vanguard don't scatter
- Hammer of Wrath whenever jump troops charge.


- Bringing basic stuff up to 6th ed. (points values, anti-air access etc.)

 

[Memento Of Prospero]

- Ability to disembark and assault from transports

- Furious Charge conveying initiative bump.

 

These are not coming back. They were deliberate changes.

[tomjoad]

I'm sure I've posted this somewhere before, but here's all they need to do: Make our points in line with Dark Angels, then make Corbulo an HQ (he's the care-taker of the chapter in Dante dies, so why would he be an Elites choice?).

 

They can fiddle with the captain's wargear, or fix Dante and Astorath, or give us the Storm Talon...whatever. Just those two changes and it's a perfectly good book again.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I would love to see the return of the Sanguinary High Priest as an HQ option a la 3rd edition. At the very least Corbulo returning to an HQ slot so you can use one. I used to always use a SHP as my commander until the PDF codex took him away.

 

Tweak the HQ options. I find this the hardest part of any list hands down, since I don't particularly like using special characters, and most of the normal ones I find severely lacklustre for their points cost (a dark angels librarian can do what ours do for little more than half the cost).

 

I like Descent of Angels as an army gimmick. It fits the fluff, it's unique, but more importantly than either of those it's strong without being overpowered. I say we keep it as-is.

 

Points costs - bring in line with other books. We had our devastators get cheaper than vanilla marines, but we also had hammernators get more expensive. Uniformity is key - figure out what points cost is fair and keep it uniform. Perhaps pay a slight premium on jump pack models to compensate for Descent of Angels.

 

Red Thirst is our biggest problem as as its effectively our replacement for combat tactics. The problem is that each other chapter has their own variant which does something different and useful consistently. Our army instead gives each unit a 1/6 shot of getting their special rule. Not as consistent, and its not as useful as the combat tactics options. I'm not sure entirely how to fix it though. 

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

"Red Thirst is our biggest problem as as its effectively our replacement for combat tactics. The problem is that each other chapter has their own variant which does something different and useful consistently. Our army instead gives each unit a 1/6 shot of getting their special rule. Not as consistent, and its not as useful as the combat tactics options. I'm not sure entirely how to fix it though."

 

 

 

 

The problem with representing the Red Thirst as a useful rule is that it isn't a reliable condition for the chapter, so if we go by a narrative rationale for including rules for the Red Thirst it kind of needs to be random, which is obviously part of the issue we all have with the practical application of our chapter's signature trait.

 

Space Wolves get to have things like counter-attack because Space Wolves are kind of reliably huge dicks--hence you always get them in your face if you charge one of them.

 

Blood Angels however--and many folks here don't like this idea--are more like an Index Astartes in their character, except when they're not (i.e. hallucinations etc.).  

 

I think the easy answer is simply up the odds of having Red Thirst take hold, say a roll of a 1 or 2.  They could even hint towards the timeline inching forward by suggesting the flaw is accelerating...

 

But for reason I explained in a post above I am fine having the Red Thirst be a random occurrence.  Now, the rules for when it does take effect, however, THAT is something that I wouldn't mind seeing improved.

[tomjoad]

The issue with Red Thirst could be solved by making it have some different effect even when you fail the roll. As it is, even when you pass it's worse than combat tactics and worse than several versions of chapter tactics. That's fine, because if it was good they'd have to probably charge us more for assault squads having better weapon options plus DoA. But letting it have some effect in every game, rather than a one in six that I always forget to roll for anyway, would be nice.

[Chaplain Admetus]

Inquisitor, I think you've said what I was trying to say better than I managed it (as has tomjoad) - I don't mind its intrinsic randomness as that fits well with the Red Thirst concept, but even when it does happen its really not very good. I've occasionally not had to take a leadership test to see if a squad runs off an objective (but ATSKNF means they're coming right back anyway for those that do, unless its the last turn of the game).

 

What I was trying to get at (and to clarify my previous post) is that its our equivalent of combat/chapter tactics only its in effect less than 20% of the time per unit, and its not even very good. That and the fact that people forget to roll for it all the time is a fairly big issue as its just something that sits there, and you tend to assume that your rules are automatic. As it is, it doesn't even fit the fluff very well as the not-running-away part comes into effect far more than the gone-angry-and-smash part.

[JamesI]

z

 

I would love to see the return of the Sanguinary High Priest as an HQ option a la 3rd edition. At the very least Corbulo returning to an HQ slot so you can use one. I used to always use a SHP as my commander until the PDF codex took him away.

 

Tweak the HQ options. I find this the hardest part of any list hands down, since I don't particularly like using special characters, and most of the normal ones I find severely lacklustre for their points cost (a dark angels librarian can do what ours do for little more than half the cost).

 

I like Descent of Angels as an army gimmick. It fits the fluff, it's unique, but more importantly than either of those it's strong without being overpowered. I say we keep it as-is.

 

Points costs - bring in line with other books. We had our devastators get cheaper than vanilla marines, but we also had hammernators get more expensive. Uniformity is key - figure out what points cost is fair and keep it uniform. Perhaps pay a slight premium on jump pack models to compensate for Descent of Angels.

 

Red Thirst is our biggest problem as as its effectively our replacement for combat tactics. The problem is that each other chapter has their own variant which does something different and useful consistently. Our army instead gives each unit a 1/6 shot of getting their special rule. Not as consistent, and its not as useful as the combat tactics options. I'm not sure entirely how to fix it though. 

Remember Descent of Angels and Red Thirst are the replacements for combat tactics.

[Drunken Angel]

DOA (Descent of Angels) + Meltaguns used to scare the pants off everyone.  With interceptor becoming more common DOA has become more like ..... Dead On Arrival .....

[BAHERSH]

Blood angels are not nearly as unhinged as some of you think they are. Khorne Bezerkers don't have that problem and they know a thing or two about bloodlust. People want them to be all about melee because that's what worked in the past for them. But that's not the road the codex needs. There is not a single successful melee centric army in 40k at this time. The current ruleset is dead set against such a model. All in melee armies are not going to come back anytime soon, because there was no counter play.

 

Assault marines shouldn't be beastly in close combat. At the moment they are good at bullying non-cc units. Death company/sternguard deal with things they can't. They are cheap troops/ jump infantry. Look at how much a khorne bezerker costs for a model on foot without any special weapons access.

 

what I'd like to see is: Ability to replace CCW for bolters on ?Assault Marines-> Mobile firebases.

A reduction on JP upgrade for DC.

A Jump Pack Devastator unit, with 4 special weapons. The honour guard somewhat do this, but they come with a serious price tag and no ablative wounds.

Point reduction for the special characters other than Corbulo.

Astorath should allow DC to score instead of allowing multiple units.

 

Something that would be interesting is the ability to use power axes at initiative rather than unwieldy. This would not require our characters to fall in the "eternal warrior or garbage mode". Perhaps only on Independant, named characters and sergeants.

 

The Red thirst needs to change. Rolling for it does not remove the need for a Sanguinary priest nearby due to feel no pain. I think strait up feel no pain would be a better thing to get than furious charge, as FnP is good on all units - furious charge is not.

I really like all of these changes. Especially Bolter options for AM's and a mobile JP Devastator option (i.e.: 4 plasma guns). As the 40k metagame shifts to a more shooty style of play, I really feel that we need more mobile fire support units. Sure, I like my CC specialist units, but I like playing blood angles mainly because of their superior mobility. In the future, this will require more fire support. What do we actually have right now? Other than Baal Predators, I can't really think of anything that is unique to the blood angles armory (not that our Stormravens/ Attack Bikes/ Land Speeders are bad or anything).

 

Anyway, here's a few suggestions:

 

1. Sternguard can have a JP option

2. A Sanguinary High Priest can fufill an HQ slot (with a 12" bubble instead of 6", or 4+ FnP instead of 5+)

3. JPs need to be cheaper for DC. The fact that DC are now more effective with bolters in Drop Pods is just stupid and contradicts their fluff

4. ACannons and/ or Flamestorm Cannons for our Attack Bikes would be so SWEET (obviously OP, but maybe 1 per 3 units?)

5. Please for the love of God, let us take more upgrades for our Captains and HQ's. I may not feel the need to use a librarian every game if this changed.

6. Most of the special characters feel underpowered for their pt value (either give them a buff or lower the cost)

7. Tactical squads would be great if they could also have 2x special weapons (i.e.: plasma guns) instead of 1 and a heavy weapon

8. Sanguinary Guard can be taken in 5 - 10 man units.

9. As mentioned above, Bolter options for AM's.

10. Baal Predators can be taken as Heavy Support or Fast Attack (still 3 units max)

 

Honestly, if all the new codex offered was #1 and 9, I would be a very happy camper. #4 might give me a heart attack.

[Blindhamster]

I think Assault marines should go back to the FA slot for us, with them as troops we technically couldn't field a company using the FOC, which is daft for a codex adherent army (we always have been).

 

BUT, I reckon our tacticals should be able to take jump packs, but wouldn't be allowed heavy weapons if they did, would be a decent way of showing that our entire army is well trained in Jump pack use. And maybe have our normal assault squads have heroic intervention but at a point increase of course. The Vanguard would still be better due to better stats and weapon options, but it'd show our preference and skill for jump packs nicely. I'd also consider moving vanguard to Elites, I know that means they're competing with a lot of cool stuff, but that's fair enough, the bulk of your army should be the standard marine company.

[Squirrelloid]

Bahersh:

*Fast* predators is something other marines don't have.  I know Stormraven overshadows them right now, but if you're playing mechanized you're going to want to toss 2+ predator destructors in your list along with your Baal Predators.

 

Blindhamster:

I couldn't disagree more. 

-You can field a whole company, you'd just have to use bikes instead of assault marines. 

-Assault marines as troops is one of the few things that makes us noticeably different from other marines.

-Assault marines are part of our standard marine company.  All our "tacticals" also have training as assault marines, and can switch into that role on demand.  Assault marines as troops is actually fluffy for us.

-Putting assault marines in fast attack would just ensure they never got used (again, I remember 3rd edition).  You have to consider the implications for list building.  Sad but true, the only reason blood angels players use assault marines is because they can field them as troops.

[Chaplain Admetus]

@Squirrelloid - don't forgot the special weapons option. I guarantee you'd see codex marines fielding ASM as fast attack if they could get the special weapons options that we can. As it stands though, ASM are probably the single least used marine kit. I only ever see them fielded by Blood Angels, or very occasionally as a bodyguard for a vanilla marine captain who's using a jump pack to get to the fight faster.

[Squirrelloid]

@Squirrelloid - don't forgot the special weapons option. I guarantee you'd see codex marines fielding ASM as fast attack if they could get the special weapons options that we can. As it stands though, ASM are probably the single least used marine kit. I only ever see them fielded by Blood Angels, or very occasionally as a bodyguard for a vanilla marine captain who's using a jump pack to get to the fight faster.

 

Yeah, but even with the weapon options, can assault marines compete with Multi-Melta attack bikes and Baal predators?  Vanguard Veterans have even better kit options, and basically no one uses them except for highly specialized assignments (like following a Sternguard Drop Pod).

[Angelus Mortifer]

Someone earlier beat me to the punch, but I would be very surprised if Flamestorm Cannons didn't become Torrent, which latterly for us would improve two of our units straight away (Redeemers and Baals). For Baals specifically, it would make HB sponsons viable with the cannon.

 

(Would we still have Deep Striking Raiders by then of course..? It was a bit of a gimmick in my opinion, and seldom used so it will likely get dropped I would have thought)

 

Things we should automatically expect with a new book in 6th: some sort of "large" new unit, possibly a new character (maybe replacing an existing one), and probably around 2+ new general units (which may just be new units added to C:SM which we won't be able to use ourselves except via Allies, until we get our own versions). Separate specific Warlord chart.

 

Something we should in theory see based on recent 6ed books is a reduction in points for a reasonable amount of things, given GW's desire to get more boots on the ground. I would welcome cheaper DC or at the very least for their JPs. C:SM should give us a good indication of what reductions we could see when our time comes (e.g. Terminators, Stormraven, Tacs and Devs).

 

I do think we need a stronger focus towards our air time/manoeuvrability and the assault element we are supposedly renowned for, because 6th has made us a little lacklustre compared to 5th. Just throwing random thoughts out there (without giving them serious thought, and adding to what some have already said ;)) - maybe jump-shoot-jump somehow / HoW for assaulting irrespective of how you moved / HoW at S5/6 AP- depending on whether you have the FC bubble when you assault or not (to make up for the loss of the FC Initiative bump from 5th, maybe combined with HoW being always ON) / Roll a D6 for every non-Vanguard Deep Strike, on a 6 you can assault on arrival (Vanguard automatically have Fleet built in)....etc, etc ???

 

Rage and Thirst do need to be addressed in a better way though. I agree that other books having "Always On" benefits puts us at a disadvantage.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The Flamestorm cannon was not upgraded to torrent in the Rulebook, so I doubt they will upgrade it this edition. However, one can only hope!

[Angelus Mortifer]

The Flamestorm cannon was not upgraded to torrent in the Rulebook, so I doubt they will upgrade it this edition. However, one can only hope!

Fair point, I forgot it was listed in the BRB, but GW have also had a tendency to not do random obvious/needed upgrades at the beginning of an edition or FAQ update, so as to not dilute the eventual Codex....

 

(...he says "only hoping" ;))

[BAHERSH]

Bahersh:

*Fast* predators is something other marines don't have.  I know Stormraven overshadows them right now, but if you're playing mechanized you're going to want to toss 2+ predator destructors in your list along with your Baal Predators.

 

Yeah, but it doesn't really make them unique or better for that matter. Just more expensive. I guess I feel that the entire Heavy Support portion (barring Stormravens) of the codex is pretty much garbage, unless you're running mech. My recommendation was simply to give the option of taking Baal's in Heavy Support, since it is not any faster than the Predator variant (why does a different weapon make it fast attack?).

 

I field a mobile infantry list, and the Stormraven is really the only good option to take right now, which just feels a bit disappointing. If Baal predators were available in HS, I would love to give them a try (I just prefer MM A Bikes and 2 x HB Speeders over the Baal).

[Squirrelloid]

 

Bahersh:

*Fast* predators is something other marines don't have.  I know Stormraven overshadows them right now, but if you're playing mechanized you're going to want to toss 2+ predator destructors in your list along with your Baal Predators.

 

Yeah, but it doesn't really make them unique or better for that matter. Just more expensive. I guess I feel that the entire Heavy Support portion (barring Stormravens) of the codex is pretty much garbage, unless you're running mech. My recommendation was simply to give the option of taking Baal's in Heavy Support, since it is not any faster than the Predator variant (why does a different weapon make it fast attack?).

 

I field a mobile infantry list, and the Stormraven is really the only good option to take right now, which just feels a bit disappointing. If Baal predators were available in HS, I would love to give them a try (I just prefer MM A Bikes and 2 x HB Speeders over the Baal).

 

I'd hate that because I currently field 2 Baals and 2 Destructors in 2k.  I like getting predators in 2 slots.  And I think the Baal is competitive for fast attack slots.  (Indeed, armies that want Baals generally aren't going to want the other FA options).  If Baals were competing with other predators for slots, the other predators would never see play.

 

Why are some dreadnoughts HS and some Elites?  So you can take more than 3!

[BAHERSH]

Exactly, so an option to select Baal Predators as FA or HS (3 max still) would be beneficial to all style of plays - as I mentioned in the first post. My point is that jumper lists don't have a great mobile option in HS aside from Stormravens. Devs are overpriced and have 0 mobility and are sadly the next best option. Obviously I recognize that a lot of people play mech lists and don't want to take anything away from their arsenal.