skeletoro Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I'm starting to have second thoughts about cyclone missile launchers, given the rumoured stats for the new Eldar Wraithknight. Supposedly it's T8/W6/2+. Krak missiles are going to bounce right off, if that rumour is correct and it really has a 2+ save. It's making me start to think that Assault Cannons are the way to go. Against everything that a CML is good against, they're extremely close in power. But versus high armour values and 2+ armour saves, they're far superior. Of course, this is just one unit. But it seems likely that we'll see more titan-sized or near-titan-sized walkers in the near future. It's hard to predict what their stats will be (if they have an AV then the difference between CML and Assault Cannon is much smaller), but if it's anything like this, krak missiles are going to stop being the panacea they currently are. This goes for missile launchers on Long Fangs, too. Even plasma cannons will be 4x as effective as krak missiles vs a statline like the above, and lascannons twice as good as that. It may start getting a tad harder to decide on the best loadout for your Long Fangs. Of course, this is all going off of a rumour. Perhaps the Wraithkight only has a 3+ save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 pffff... missile launcher spam is boring anyway. I greatly prefer having EVERYTHING! rawr and such. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3377844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Hehe, well, you certainly had the rule of cool on your side before. The point is, if we see a lot of mega walkers like this wraith knight in the future, it might be the rule of cool AND the rule of optimality. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3377902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 A strength 10 thunder hammer still ignores its armor save, and wounds on a 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I agree that there's so many +2 armor saves lately. Missiles are still good but might have to go for more lascannons in the future since with the riptide and maybe soon Wraithknight and then who knows? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Sniper Rifles are also a decent weapon against that. any roll of "6" will ignore that 2+, and force it to take enough armor saves and it will fall. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I'd be very surprised if it had 6 wounds at T8 with a 2+ save. The points cost would have to be immense to justify that. Still, 1 JotWW, opponent rolls a 6, big scary monster falls down a hole and dies. I've seen it happen to a Wraithseer, why not any other broken über-unit? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 Hah, yeah. JotW would be pretty funny. But you can't give long fangs thunder hammers, sniper rifles or JotW... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 You want at least one CML mixed in with your Wolf Guard units so that you don't lose wounds if all of the models in your target unit aren't within 24", but in general, I have been finding that I was happier with the assault cannon than with the cyclone, with the missile launcher just there to let wounds flow deeper into my target unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I'd be very surprised if it had 6 wounds at T8 with a 2+ save. The points cost would have to be immense to justify that. Still, 1 JotWW, opponent rolls a 6, big scary monster falls down a hole and dies. I've seen it happen to a Wraithseer, why not any other broken über-unit? Theyre saying 350pts with weapon options included. Is that immense enough? Oh, and 'It will not die' as a special rule. This is why half my LFs in each pack have lascannons.... Landraiders, Monoliths, Predators, Hammerheads... and Wraiths. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!! Not worried about it personally. Missiles will stay in my army because they remain the most versatile option against all comers despite falling short in instances of Wraithknights. If you absolutely feel the need for the something extra in your Long Fang packs, try this one on for size; Rune Priest w/LL WGTDA w/CML Long Fang w/ML x2 Long Fang w/LC x3 4 ML attacks 3 LC attacks d6 str7 attacks I can live with that just fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 For the record, I didn't think the sky was falling :P Yeah, I'd probably mix some lascannons in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 You want at least one CML mixed in with your Wolf Guard units so that you don't lose wounds if all of the models in your target unit aren't within 24", but in general, I have been finding that I was happier with the assault cannon than with the cyclone, with the missile launcher just there to let wounds flow deeper into my target unit. Umm, is that a rule? Isn't it the other way round? As long as [your] model was in range of the enemy when rolling to hit, [your model] is considered in range for the duration of the attack even if removing [enemy] casualties means the closest [enemy] model is now out of range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3378740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegue Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Ramses - wouldn't you need one less Longfang to add the WGPL? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Why would that be? The wgpl can be added to any legal longfang squad. So the number of long fangs is irrelevant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 You want at least one CML mixed in with your Wolf Guard units so that you don't lose wounds if all of the models in your target unit aren't within 24", but in general, I have been finding that I was happier with the assault cannon than with the cyclone, with the missile launcher just there to let wounds flow deeper into my target unit. Umm, is that a rule? Isn't it the other way round? As long as [your] model was in range of the enemy when rolling to hit, [your model] is considered in range for the duration of the attack even if removing [enemy] casualties means the closest [enemy] model is now out of range. If I were you, I'd re-read the latest FAQ. Only models who are in range of any of the shooters can be taken out as casualty. Only model in range can shoot. Only models in range can be taken out as casualties. The catch is that any model in range of ANY shooter can be taken out. For example : - 10 tac marines with bolters, all within 24" of an ennemy unit. - all 10 shoot, and all bolters hit. - The hits can only injure models that were within 24" of any of the shooters. Any model out of range cannot be hurt. If the unit had included a ML, then any model in range of the ML (whether the ML hits or not) can be injured by a bolter round *because it was in range of the shooting unit* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
montegue Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Why would that be? The wgpl can be added to any legal longfang squad. So the number of long fangs is irrelevant. I thought the Wolf Guard became a part of the pack, and so putting one in there would put the pack over it's maximum size? Or am I crazy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apahllo Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 im gearing up a wolfpriest with pp for all these mc's. maybe for some terminators with combi but t8 is gross and i dont know how to successfully and reliably deal with that... throw in the 2+ and that thing is going to be nigh impervious to everything but the most lethal guns. also going to be considering using lascannons for the first time in my life... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted May 24, 2013 Author Share Posted May 24, 2013 Ahh, dang. Didn't notice that change. So GW basically did another FAQrrata, then? >:( Why would that be? The wgpl can be added to any legal longfang squad. So the number of long fangs is irrelevant. I thought the Wolf Guard became a part of the pack, and so putting one in there would put the pack over it's maximum size? Or am I crazy? It's ok, wolf guard can crank it up to 11 (or 7, in this case). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Why would that be? The wgpl can be added to any legal longfang squad. So the number of long fangs is irrelevant. I thought the Wolf Guard became a part of the pack, and so putting one in there would put the pack over it's maximum size? Or am I crazy? I think you might be over thinking it. Yes the wgpl becomes part of the squad for all intents and purposes but he does not become a long fang. He is still a wolf guard so he does not raise the number of long fangs in the squad. So there is still 1-5 long fangs and 1 leader and then there is a wgpl which can join due to his leaders of the pack rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roma Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 To put it simply, wg Join units at the start of the game. During actual list building the long fangs are a legal squad, while the wg are a separate legal squad. Once the game starts, before deployment, a wg can join the long fangs. This is fine in the same way as an independent character joining a full sized squad during the game or deployment is fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Why would that be? The wgpl can be added to any legal longfang squad. So the number of long fangs is irrelevant. I thought the Wolf Guard became a part of the pack, and so putting one in there would put the pack over it's maximum size? Or am I crazy? No, because he doesnt become part of the squad until the deployment part of your game- at wich point lists area already made and fixed arent they? This is also why he doesnt count towards the 10nth man so you can get a free second special weapon Im afraid. If he did, Id be taking them regularly instead of almost never. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275869-wraithknight-rumours-and-cmls/#findComment-3379575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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