Dakka Pred vs Rifleman Dreadnought

[The Neverborn]

After the Dark Angels faq Deathwing Players can not hold our whole army back in reserve and turn up with a DWA, so I'm thinking of adding a long range fire support element to my list to allow me to DWA most if not all of my terminators its likely to either be riflemen dreadnoughts or Dakka Preds.

 

I've very limited experience of either, I do remember a couple of "hardcore" players talking about the positioning of the heavy bolters turrets on the pred and due the fact it's difficult to point them both at something that's relatively small, arguing with me most of the time when i attempted to do. - Just something to bare in mind regarding the environments I play in.

 

That said point for point which would I be better taking?

[Disruptor_fe404]

Dark Angels get the much cheaper Predators (though I can't quite remember how much cheaper, it's definitely more noticeable on the tri-las Annihilator), but ultimately the choice would be made by what you're shooting with them.

 

My preference is the Dread, but that's mostly because if I ever run a Predator, it's going to have lascannons (the sponsons at the very least).

[dragonkingofthestarsII]

keep in mind, i have no experience at all with ANY game play, but here my 2 cents

 

Your friend are in general correct about predator sponsons, due to you have to line the gun up with the target you can only fire both guns on very distant targets if at all, so in most you can only count on one sponsor and the turret to take on any target.

 

with that in mind, the predator armed with a auto cannon and heavy bolter sponsons, and a Dreadnought, (assuming DA can take this load out, I don't play them and only look at a normal space marine dex) armed with a twin-link bolter and twin linked autocannon is the better buy in terms of shooting power. It offers the same amount of shots of the same type, but all of those shots are twinlinked

 

but the Dreadnought has less frontal armor then the pred, though more side. Additionaly the Dreadnought costs more in terms of points, much more, so it's at toss up, twin linking auto and heavy cannon/bolter, or two bare bone preds

[Zombie P]

It is also a case of heavy support and elite. Which slots do you need less. The other thing to consider is that a dread is still a Walker, with overwatch, s6 and the ability to fight in cc. That is why I chose riflemen over a pred for my 1000 da continent.

 

ZP

[infornography]

Umm, it is not hard to get both sponsons on the same target unless you are immobilized or they are RIGHT in front of you.  Most vehicles are at least as wide as a rhino and most are wider.  Even the ones that aren't are not that hard to hit with both.  Infantry come in units and each gun only needs to be able to "see" a single member of the unit to be able to hit them. 

 

I can't think of a time I've ever had a hard time getting both guns trained on the same unit unless the pred is immobilized.  That's my experience anyway.

 

That said, I have found preds to be pretty easy to remove due to their weak side armor and huge side arcs.  I'd still probably go with the pred for points, but I wouldn't expect it to be a long term combatant.  I tend to also prefer las cannon sponsons if for no other reason than range though.  Being able to fire all three weapons at BS at a target across the field is very nice and in particular, being able to remove terminators and vehicles comes in handy.

[McFisty]

Depending on what else you have in your list, I would say the general rule is to always take a dreadnought over a predator any day of the week. The dred is better because it can move and shoot everything at full ballistic skill and can even fight in cc. Whether you like the twin-linked autocannon rifleman dread or the twin-linked lascannon and missile launcher dread, you are more likely to get your money's worth from the dread over the predator. The dread's av 12 side armor is more important than the av 13 front armor of the predator. I like the predator but I love the dreadnought. Can you tell? I hope this helps.

 

McFisty

[DarkGuard]

I think you're asking yourself the wrong question here. What do you need more, light armour removal or infantry removal? The dakka Pred and Rifleman overlap, but do fulfil different roles. The Rifleman Dread will always be superior to the dakka pred in taking out light vehicles. It's got more S7 shots, and they're all twin-linked, leading to better and easier hull point removal. Furthermore, it can move and fire at full effect, allowing you to keep up with changes in fire lanes and LoS etc that your target's movement may create.

 

The dakka Pred on the other hand can do a decent job against light vehicles with its autocannon, and the heavy bolters also help, but is better against infantry. It has more shots that wound on low rolls. Also, it's cheaper, so you're more likely to fit two in to get more shots at those infantry units.

 

So ask yourself what role you need filling first before you worry about points, slots etc. Guessing by the fact that you're a Deathwing player, I'm guessing the Rifleman would be the better bet so you can more reliably open transports so your units can stomp and shoot the contents inside.  Unless you run a lot of CMLs and TH/SS, in which case the dakka Pred may be better to help against infantry at long range and prevent you being overrun by hordes.

 

The Pred that the Rifleman actually directly competes with is the combi-Pred, and that comes down to the Pred having better front armour, having better quality of shots, but lacking the twin-linked and movement capabilities of the Rifleman.

[War Angel]

I know this doesn't partain to either of the two vehicles, but it's a related question, so I'll ask it here.

 

If I where to use two dakka preds because I'm fighting nids and I wanna use those for the hordes, what kind of dread would be best for killing the big things???

[Hyaenidae]

In your shoes, I'd personally take a Aslt.C / ML Dread. Weight of fire, potential rending, a krak missle if you need it, and a template when you don't.

 

I haven't played against a Nid army in a while, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

[War Angel]

Thanks actualy, that sounds like a cool unit to play actualy

[The Neverborn]

It seems that I am operating under different definitions of what a "Dakka Pred" and a "Rifleman dread" are to some other posters.

 

Apologies if these aren't the correct definitions

Dakka Pred- Predator Tank with Heavy Bolter/Auto Cannon

Rifleman Dread - Dreadnought with two pairs of twin linked auto cannons (yes this legal in the DA Codex)

[DarkGuard]

It seems that I am operating under different definitions of what a "Dakka Pred" and a "Rifleman dread" are to some other posters.

 

Apologies if these aren't the correct definitions

Dakka Pred- Predator Tank with Heavy Bolter/Auto Cannon

Rifleman Dread - Dreadnought with two pairs of twin linked auto cannons (yes this legal in the DA Codex)

 

Nope, looks like everyone figured that one out. We all know the Rifleman is called that on here. Others were just mentioning a different config for the Pred which is more of a competitor with the Rifleman than the dakka Pred, and that's the combi pred (autocannon/lascannons).

[Hyaenidae]

It seems that I am operating under different definitions of what a "Dakka Pred" and a "Rifleman dread" are to some other posters.

 

Apologies if these aren't the correct definitions

Dakka Pred- Predator Tank with Heavy Bolter/Auto Cannon

Rifleman Dread - Dreadnought with two pairs of twin linked auto cannons (yes this legal in the DA Codex)

 

No sir, that is correct. I was simply answering an Off topic question from War Angel.