Drop Pod Army Tactica: My thoughts after a tournament

[nevaenuffbass]

I have just  returned from a four game tournament where i ran a null deployment list. It was a strong field, with players attending to boost their placement in state-wide ranking we have. I finished with 2 wins 2 losses, after having won with every practice game leading to the tournament (about 5 with similar lists). In hindsight, I can see things I could have done to prevent my losses, which is part of why I am posting - so you can learn from my lessons. I also encourage any comments, feedback and advice. 

 

My list (1850pts) 

Reclusiarch in terminator armour with combi flamer

Librariarian in terminator armour with combi flamer, force axe, telepathy powers

 

Furioso, frag cannon, heavy flamer, drop pod

10 Sternguard, 2 meltaguns, 3 combi-meltas, 5 combi-plasmas, drop pod

Cobulo

Priest with melta bombs and storm bolter

 

7 Assault marines, SGT with 2 infernus pistols, meltagun, drop pod, locator beacon

7 Death Company, bolters on each, 1 power fist, drop pod, locator beacon

10 tac marines, plasma gun, combi-plasma, missile launcher, drop pod

5 assault marines, flamer, SGT has 2 hand flamers and melta bombs, drop pod

5 assault marines, meltagun, infernus pistol on SGT, drop pod

 

 

My opponents -

Vanilla Marines with pedro, 2 units of sternguard (on foot), 10 terminators with TH/SS, 2 tac squads, 3 storm talons

Dark angels with 3 ravenwing squads, 2 deathwing, deathwing command squad, tactical squald and azrael

CSM / Daemon flying circus - Lord of change, 2 demon princes, 2 heldrakes, 2 min cultists, 16ish blood letters, 3 obliterators MoN

Space Wolf drop pod army- 2 rune priests, 4 grey hunter squads led by wolf guard in termi armour, arjac, 2 units of long fangs, 7 drop pods

 

I won the first and last games. In hindsight, the other two were within grasp as well, with some tactical considerations. 

 

 

LESSON ONE
Consider who to drop when. I had been running an A team and a B Team - where I dropped the same units at the start of all games (Libby/Corbulo melta squad; DC and reclusiarch (priest went here but detached); sternguard, and furioso) with the others coming from reserve. The concept was to "hit them so hard they couldn't get up"

This didn't work in all situations. The Dark angels player had a deathwing assault going on, meaning that he placed 3 units in termi armour after I had dropped my alpha strike. As my units are not so mobile once dropped, it was really hard to get my plasma etc. into the right place to deal with the 2+ saves. In particular the sternguard, who on their own, could probably have done significant damage to 2 units (combat squadding). The DC dealt with one of these units quite easily. 

This also applies to the furioso who really suffers from a bad scatter with short range weapons and fragility after - he benefits a lot from locator beacons.

To summarise, it is important to be flexible regarding who drops when, and in some cases it is better to drop weaker "suicide" units. 

 

LESSON TWO

Enhancing survivability with independent characters. I was unsure about parting with the points for termi armour for the libby / reclusiarch. After today, I would consider giving termi armour to the priest as well. Especially give lesson one above, it is important to keep your marines alive. Corbulo is gold (almost feels like cheating, until you face necrons and all their getting up again) for how much small arms fire he can soak. The terminator suits were also gold for this today, soaking heldrake baleflamer and AP3 missiles from the storm talons. I find I need to be pretty alert, and pre-empt where I am going to get fired from, particularly with flyers coming from reserve. Placement of IC's is a fine art and necessary to win with a BA drop pod list. 

 

LESSON THREE

The order in which pods arrive is also difficult to master. I put my priest with my DC, which seems silly, but it is where I could fit him with the limited space in the pods. I intend to have him leave the DC and join the sterngaurd or tactical squad. However this is not possible if the DC arrive first. Also, to some extent pods can be used to make subsequent pods more accurate, as they kind of box them in and restrict scatter. So generally it can be good to drop least important units first.

 

 

LIST MUST HAVES

Death Company and Reclusiarch. They soemtimes don't perform, but more often than not carry the weight of the army. I set them up for a counter assualt, placing them behind sternguard / tac squad so they don't get assaulted (or shot at for that matter) first.

Corbulo

2 Locator Beacons - getting those reserves in the right place without scatter is important

 

UNDERPERFORMERS

Furioso with frag cannon - he takes a few guys with him, but is pretty fragile, being the only AV threat on the table. I don't think he once made his points back

Meltabombs - in 4 games, I didn't use one. 

Psychic powers - not sure I really got heaps out of the powers - but the libby did okay, generally holding his own in combat, and his force axe claimed Azrael and scared a demon prince from charging him. 

 

Let me know your thoughts.

I'll expand on this as continue to think it through. 

 

 

[Soups]

Interesting list. Though I am wondering why you just didn't have a second Librarian. That way, if you don't get the first turn, they can't just hit your librarian into the dust? Did any of your HQ's live long enough to buff your drop pod units?

[Squirrelloid]

Interesting list. Though I am wondering why you just didn't have a second Librarian. That way, if you don't get the first turn, they can't just hit your librarian into the dust? Did any of your HQ's live long enough to buff your drop pod units?

 

I assume they deepstriked, since he said null deploy.  I'm surprised there isn't a terminator unit to go with them, since I don't think they fit in drop pods...

[Chaplain Admetus]

Terms can go in drop pods, they just take up the space of 2 models (being bulky). Terminators can't take a pod as a dedicated transport option, but they can join a unit which has a drop pod prior to deployment as long as there's space. Given our drop pods have a capacity of 10, any 8 man unit or less with a pod is fair game.

[nevaenuffbass]

As stated above, the librarian was in with the 7 man assault squad and corbs.That is why I gave him telepathy - witchfires can be cast on the turn a libby's pod arrives, whereas blessings can't. Inclined to try fear of the darkness / shield next time. 

[Morticon]

I'm mid-tournament at the moment with a near-null deply drop pod list.  

 

Feel free to check out what's working for me here (post 162):  

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/271045-1750-null-deploy-almost-competitive-list/page-7

[knife&fork]

LESSON ONE

Consider who to drop when. 

 

UNDERPERFORMERS

Furioso with frag cannon - he takes a few guys with him, but is pretty fragile, being the only AV threat on the table. I don't think he once made his points back

 

For lesson one I agree completely. There's no reason what so ever to decide what units will drop first until you have to. This goes for attached characters, warlord traits and psychic powers as well. Nothing wrong with having a plan, but never feel limited by it.

 

As for the furioso I think that he needs to be taken with something more in mind than just trading models with your opponent. Suicide units are usually a bad idea unless they have more than one use.  

 

Will he influence your opponents deployment? Try to get some advantage from that.

 

Did you hold him off or place him with survival in mind? It can be worth giving up a chance on first blood or a round of fire on a tempting target if he can stay alive for more than one turn. Once dead he's got zero impact on the rest of the board.  

[Chado23]

I feel that the melta bombs might be 20 points extra, but I will not leave home with at least one of these in a team with no other way to shut down a tank. 

Even if you have the whole team wiped out a single Sergent can do his last stand blowing up a tank. 

What you said was also correct:
Drop Pod provide maneuverability once in their deployment. Can be powerful if they are used correctly but after that they are slow like everything else  and some times even more exposed.

That's why I prefer to combine Drop Pods with Assault Marines, Baal Predators or Attack Bikes. The idea is something with enough movement to catch up with them and support them.

 

 

 

LIST MUST HAVES: Death Company and Reclusiarch.

Every game I love the Death Company even more, and I start to believe that DP is the way for them.
Yes, counter assault is they way they should be used, but that principal should stand for all the Blood Angels melee.
combine the rapid fire of a tactical team , the pistols of a assault team, and the charge of the later.
 

I am not sure about the Reclusiarch.
 

Corbulo is a beast

2 Locator Beacons , well if you use that many drop pods they you need locator beacon, but there are some chapters (Dark Angels) that can use it against you.

 

Furioso with frag cannon  : It can be great against infantry (flamer) or tanks (magna grapple/melta gun). With your list I might like the second choice better as you could rid off annoying troops.

 

Though one alone will die pretty fast.

[nevaenuffbass]

Reclusiarch is pretty awesome for the re-roll hit and wound with the DC charge and absorbing AP3 fire. Having said that, in jumper lists I've found his fearless buff pretty handy for assault marines. 

 

Furioso - well you have a point - I did deploy him to do maximum damage with his drop, and he tended to find that players spread out their troops, limiting his impact. Against the Dark Angels (where he happened to have a bad scatter anyway) he would have been much better landing in turn 2-3. Still, I think that tryingto keep a single AV model alive is always going to be a challenge, so think he won't make the cut in future null deployment lists. 

 

As I have discussed elsewhere, I am looking to include a single assault squad with jump packs, who will still be kept in reserve - for the mobility. I found it hard to find the points for them, as I still want an odd number of pods, to maximise the first turn drop. Having said that, in this particular tournament, I didn't find the lack of mobility an issue. In objective missions (3/4 of the games were objectives) I placed them as I would for an ork army - close together in the enemies deployment zone. Even when the enemy gets the first obective, they tend to place them in their own zone, so it works well. 

[Chado23]

The Reclusiarch as put me in thoughts. 

 

Mephiston  vs    

Reclusiarch is  with terminator armor and a combi (I would go combi-plasma though) and

Librarian with termie armor and combi weapon

is  50 points difference.

 

And Corbulo instead of a regular Priest with JP is an other 30 points.

 

So, you make that 'combo' for 80 more, which could be a significant number of upgrades.

Though I like the idea because you get more toys and more survivability on the DC.

 

And I think you are right for the Furioso, that's why I prefer to build it with melta gun. I used to suicide drop regular dread , armed to kill a tank, but it was too costy point wise. I would prefer to go Sternguards, DC or Tactical on the Pods.

 

As for the odd number you could try 5 instead of 7. You save up 70 points which could be used on an Assault.


An other nice though is about how really useful movement is:

 You can move fast with BA by :

-PD as you try to do.

-JP which will allow you to charge a bit better. The idea is that it would allow you claim faster an objective but in your post you didn't have that problem

- Transportation. Well, Rhino are a bit dangerous with only 10 Armor.

 

The pros and con of the PD method is that you can "snipe" position your units , but after they get there that's it. That units feel like sitting ducks to me. Though if you manage to bring 4 units they could support each other. Still, feels wrong. I would like to see a battle report to get a better idea of the strategy.

[nevaenuffbass]

Regarding Mephiston, I think I must be the only blood angel player (well they'rte actuallyt flesh tearers but anyway) who has never run him. Open to the idea, but in this case, he can't take a pod nor join a unit with one. The idea is that nothing is on the table, so that the game ends up getting played in the enemy deployment zone, so the lack of speed is mitigated (which doesn't work so well against someone who can out-reserve you).

 

To stop the units from being sitting ducks you need to use a combination of "tanking" units to absorb fire (corbulo, characters in terminator armour), use terrain to block line of sight, be prepared to sacrifice units, fnp bubbles, and area terrain for going to ground in the case of orbital bombardment and mass plasma. Also with a podding army youget fist strike, so kill him before he can kill you. 

 

If someone can give me a link to an easy way to do battle reports I'd love to post them up - as long as there is an easy-ish way to draw the tabletop. 

[Morticon]

Check out the 1750 batrep thread im posting.  I use a near-null deploy list-  squad of jumpers, 6 pods and mephy. Only meph starts on the board.

[Brother Maikel]

If someone can give me a link to an easy way to do battle reports I'd love to post them up - as long as there is an easy-ish way to draw the tabletop.

 

Google for "Vassal40k".  Its intended as a way to play 40k over the internet, and works ok for that, but its also rather good at making top-down battle report images.  It does have a bit of a learning curve though.

 

Regarding Mephiston, he's generally fast enough (and easy enough to hide in/behind terrain) that getting to your opponent's DZ isn't really an issue.  Plus, if you're really worried you can always bring a Stormraven and stick Mephy in it, to make it true null-deploy, or roll on "Personal Traits" for warlord and hope he gets "Outflank".

[Ushtarador]

A small discussion I kicked off about table edges and inertial guidance systems: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276000-drop-pod-inertial-guidance/

 

Feel free to participate if you have an opinion on the matter :P

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Did you find that those Terminator IC's inflicting the loss of Sweeping Advance for their units to be a big hindrance?

 

I really like the idea of TEQ soaking damage for attached MEQ units but it seems to bite when the opponent can fall-back from melee 'for free'

[nevaenuffbass]

I didn't find the lack of sweeping advance to be an issue, not even once. The DC with reclusiarch wiped out the units they assaulted, and when the libby's unit assaulted, they were supported by tac squad / sternguard. 

 

The army is actually a shooting army - assaults simply clean up the mess left over - hence the lack of assault weapons on SGTs. 

[Deamons Redeemer]

I would go all pod list And have one pod with reclusiarch/ Dc And one with Dc dready dropping first turn to go for first blood ;) mephy starts solo on THE table hidden in a pièce of scenery, it seems no one takes squads of termis in theyre lists.. I would take at least one squad with hammer/shields to take a krak at armor or big arse creatures, no?

[nevaenuffbass]

Issue with DC Dread is that he is more likely to concede first blood than to score it. His max fire output when he comes down is 2 melta shots (which a 5 man assault squad can do for less). Then he is a lone AV 12, and any anti-vehicle weapons in the enemies army can take him. 

 

TH/SS termis would be nice, especially to mop stuff up, but they are expensive and slow - they won't be assaulting or shooting on the turn they arrive. The army as it stands is okay with MCs -( plasma / melta / bolter drill) and vehicles (meltaguns / melta bombs / krak grenades).

[SamaNagol]

You see this "Av 12 vehicle will give away First Blood, so take the Furioso" line of reasoning....

 

Say you take the Furioso... who also only has 2 S8 AP1 shots by the way (and admittedly 2 Rending S6 ones too).... Do you know which Av12 vehicle will still be 'giving away first blood'? That's right.... The Drop Pod!

 

The only reason I can see for taking the Furioso over the DC dread is the marginally increased chance of him still being alive the next turn to charge a target. But hey, the DC dread can drop down behind cover for a 5+ then use Fleet to make a longer charge. It's all swings and roundabouts really. Not much in it. It's down to the synergy of your list more than anything black and white

[nevaenuffbass]

I can't recall a game where someone has actually gone after a drop pod for first blood. Good idea actually, hadn't even considered it. 

 

It is the first turn firepower rather than the AV that I see the DC dread as a liability. Either, alone, will probably die within a turn of landing. The 3 templates coming out of furioso are more  liklely to take something with it, than the 2 shots of the DC. That is my reasoning. 

[knife&fork]

Say you take the Furioso... who also only has 2 S8 AP1 shots by the way (and admittedly 2 Rending S6 ones too).... Do you know which Av12 vehicle will still be 'giving away first blood'? That's right.... The Drop Pod!

 

If an opponent goes after a drop pod rather than a fragioso then I don't mind one bit.

 

Other than that a DC dread doesn't even have 2 melta shots so trying to use it for first blood is bad idea anyway. DC dreads tend to work best if dropped in the later stages of a game. Let them finish off already weakened units or act as a distraction.

[Office temp]

 

Say you take the Furioso... who also only has 2 S8 AP1 shots by the way (and admittedly 2 Rending S6 ones too).... Do you know which Av12 vehicle will still be 'giving away first blood'? That's right.... The Drop Pod!

 

If an opponent goes after a drop pod rather than a fragioso then I don't mind one bit.

 

Other than that a DC dread doesn't even have 2 melta shots so trying to use it for first blood is bad idea anyway. DC dreads tend to work best if dropped in the later stages of a game. Let them finish off already weakened units or act as a distraction.

I suspect he means arming it with a melta, mag grapple, and frag cannon.

[knife&fork]

There's quite a difference between the S8 AP1 melta and the S8 AP2 grapple.

[R0N1N]

@ nevaenuffbass

 

Looking at your list I'm trying to figure out what you started on the table with? a 100% reserve army will auto loose on turn 1 if you have nothing on the table as far as I know

[Morticon]

@ nevaenuffbass

 

Looking at your list I'm trying to figure out what you started on the table with? a 100% reserve army will auto loose on turn 1 if you have nothing on the table as far as I know

 

He comes down in his first turn remember :P