Forgefiends or Maulerfiends?

[Orwasitme]

I can't really decide between the two. So far in my list I'm thinking Forgefiend w/ Hades Autocannons and extra Ectoplasma cannon, but due to the AP4 nature of the Autocannons, I was debating their usefulness compared to the Ectoplasma cannons, which only have a 24'' range - so he'd die before he got into firing range. Looking at the Maulerfiend, on the other hand, he's 50 points cheaper and can move 12'' per turn, and has some good melee weapons - but he has to survive to get into melee, even with a 12'' movement, which 12'' movement + a LUCKY 12'' charge = 24'' = Ectoplasma Cannon = same problem different model.  Do you guys think I'm doing the right thing, or what has been proven to work?

[Ironwithout]

Could you post your list? In my opinion these two dino bots are extremely dependent on the list you are running. Don't get me wrong I love them and run a Maulerfiend myself. But I do think the rest of the list matters to answer this question.

[Orwasitme]

HQ: 
 

Chaos Lord

 - Sigil of Corruption

 - Khorne

 - Axe of Blind Fury

 

Sorceror

 - +2 Mastery

 - Tzeench

 - Sigil

 

Troops:

 

Thousand Sons

 - +4

 - Rhino

 

Khorne Berzerkers

 - +4

 

Cultists

 - +15

 

Elites:

Helbrute

 - Plasma Cannon

 - Power Scourge

 

Terminators

 - +7

 - Nurgle

 - +4 Chainfists

 - Power Axes

 

Fast Attack:
 

Heldrake

 - Baleflamer

 

Heavy Support:
 

Forgefiend

 - 2x Hades Autocannon

 - Extra Ectoplasma Cannon

 

Land Raider (Holding Chaos Lord + 9 Khorne Berzerkers)

[Ironwithout]

without commenting on the list itself. I would personally go with the Maulerfiend as it would take some pressure off the Land Raider as the speed of the thing can really scare opponents.

[nurglez]

I'd stick with the forgefiend, as it provides some much needed anti air/anti light infantry fire power, and I love miniguns :D

[AekoldHelbrass]

I'd stick with the forgefiend, as it provides some much needed anti air/anti light infantry fire power, and I love miniguns

Too expensive for anti-air. Most air units are cheaper than forgefiend, and chances to hit anything are not very impressive.

Overall list looks quite aggressive, so I would add Maulerfiends just to boost pressure.

[Orwasitme]

Alright, thanks guys - that helps. Maulerfiends look cooler anyways, ha ha.

[nurglez]

I'd stick with the forgefiend, as it provides some much needed anti air/anti light infantry fire power, and I love miniguns

Too expensive for anti-air. Most air units are cheaper than forgefiend, and chances to hit anything are not very impressive.

Overall list looks quite aggressive, so I would add Maulerfiends just to boost pressure.

Fair enough, but I've used a forgefiend as part of my anti air package (combined with autocannon havocs and the twin linked lascannons on my landraider) and he's done well most of the time, one game killing 2 storm ravens and a landraider (stripped the last 2 hull points :devil: ). I've also had games where he's missed constantly or died quickly, but I could say the same about every unit I've ever played with.

I am still yet to use a maulerfiend, mainly as I'm loath to sacrifice long range fire power for melee power, in a codex where almost all the long range firepower is in the heavy. Although taking the mauler will free up 75 points, which could be enough for something nice.

Oh and you have to remember to factor in moving when considering weapon ranges. hades autocannons have a threat range of 36 inches + your movement (so 37-42), and if you take a hit that immobilizes you at least you can still shoot! and lastly firing a series of str 8 shots, even only at ap4 can still be tasty.

[Orwasitme]

The thing that saddens me about both of them is that with bs3 ws3, its on 4s, so autocannons for example, 8 shots, 4 hit, 3-4 wound, 0-1 take effect (on a mech). Advantage: Shots start earlier than melee

Advantage to Maulerfiend in this case: Smashes through armor saves like toys. 

[nurglez]

Aye, I much regret the ws/bs/I 3 GW gave all our daemon engines, but what can you do.

 

Maybe get some Daemon allies as ad mech (I really need to do this).

[Eulfein]

Im currently torn between the Forgefiend and Maulerfiend myself. which is better in an Iron Warriors linebreaker build?

[AekoldHelbrass]

Im currently torn between the Forgefiend and Maulerfiend myself. which is better in an Iron Warriors linebreaker build?

It really depends on your roster. You know, 6th edition made our Rhinos fragile, so you have to press hard your opponent for your Rhinos to survive. So you can try playing with Forgefiends, and if you'll notice that your Rhinos are not making it - better take Maulerfiends, because they are adding pressure to your Rhino-rush and they look scary. If you'll see that your Rhinos are doing good job without any help - keep the Forgefiends, as our codex really really lacks AP2.

 

I did mine with huge magnets so I can replace legs, arms and heads now, but it's still hard to decide which one to take.

[Eulfein]

that's just it.....both builds have distinct advantages that its really difficult to decide which one will work. I'll see if the rhinos survive...if not then Forgefiend it is.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Personnaly i use the Maulerfiend in conjunction of my Juggerlord+Bikes, its a few things that get to the other side of the board fast

[Xenith]

Obliterators do the same job as a forge fiend and are more survivable.

 

I'd go with the maulerfiend, a combat dread that can move 12" is pretty tough.

[minigun762]

I've started incorporating Maulerfiends mostly because they are cheaper and have a unique role on the battlefield, whereas Forgefiends have competition from Oblits, Havocs, Vindicators and Predators.

[Chaeron]

I'd still not really be wanting to use that slot until a bit later mind in terms of points...

[Orwasitme]

This won't be my final list in any case, I'm running heavy vehicles to see how things work with my other friends, but I know my brother's Black Templars bring a lot of anti vehicles, including on his land speeders, so i cant bring so many vehicles. I want to see whats the most worth it. 

[Tenebris]

Truth be told my Obliterators did not arrive in time for this weekend tournament thus I will have to field a sub optimal combination of Maulerfiend with Magma Coils and Forgefiend with Hades Autocannons and an Ectoplasma Cannon thus I am about to find out if they work.  This limits my possibilities to pop a Land Raider from range but it is too soon to be fatalistic. Lets see how the Fiends work out.

[Orwasitme]

you'll have to tell me how they do

[Tenebris]

I would love to but the tourney was switched to the 30 June to allow space to the Eldar release, a Doubles gameday and a Warhammer Fantasy tourney but I indeed to plan to test the Fiends, even if the Obliterators arrive in the following weeks. So yeah, there is plenty of going on but I still stand behind my idea that the Fiends are useful, provided you have them supported. 

[Orwasitme]

Ill be testing the Maulerfiend on Thursday in a super heavy melee list with a land raider, khorne berzerkers, and a lot of other stuff to apply heavy pressure. 

[Orwasitme]

Maulerfiend did well in its first two games - in the first game, it assaulted 10 Assault Terminators (bad idea, but they were too close to more important, and expensive, things - so I used him to tie them up - And he successfully killed the enemy warlord while he was at it.) In the next game, my friends brother used the exact same list (except I exchanged Lasher Tendrils for Magma Cutters) and he did well also - forcing a unit of termagaunts to fall back off of the table board and making a bloody mess out of the Doom of Malan'tai before finally being blown up by a Tyrannofex's Rupture Cannon shots. 
 

Next, I'm going to try the Forgefiend w/ Hades Autocannons because I figure they should prove to be amazing Anti-vehicle since he's a walker and doesn't need his sides turned to what he's shooting like other vehicles. 

[Prot]

You have some good advice here, but something I'll add to the mix is -how- I adjust my list depending on the unit you choose.

 

I have an iron warrior blog-ish thread around here somewhere where I use these units multiple times to varying degrees of success. (I don't even have the link though. lol) But here's what I'd advise you:

 

- if you take the Maulerfiends, the lasher tendrils are huge if you actually make it into assault since you can't challenge fists.

- The Maulerfiends add an excellent aspect and almost a weird dimension to your list. But they create a huge hole in your shooty.

- Maulerfiends or Forgefiends, you don't have to multiply these units if you don't want to, but you better find some 'mid' armour units to cause multiple target decisions from you opponent.

 

So for myself if I go with a Maulerfiend, I usually take two. Now to offset that I take shooty elsewherer (Maulerfiends really should have been in a different part of the force org chart, and GW would have sold more as well.) I use shooty dreads for instance which helps.

 

If I take a Forgefiend I actually do use a Defilier quite a bit to offset the short range of the Fiend. Maybe I'll take two of them. I admit I've only used the plasma-fiend once and had a few overheats and thought this doesn't make sense with  such short range... too short. But that's just me.

 

I hope that gives some insight. Actually I own three of the Fiend models. I haven't put them together because I didn't want to forgo one build over another, but I think you can get away with magnetizing the plasma/hades variant. I want to make 2 of those, and 2 of the Maulers myself.

[Orwasitme]

Well my current list is, at the moment, very heavy melee with no abundance of vehicle kill - a weakness. 

 

HQ:

Chaos Lord

- Khorne

- Axe of Blind Fury

-Terminator Armor

 

Khârn The Betrayer

 

Troops:

 

Cultists x19

 

Cultists x18

-Autoguns

 

Khorne Berzerkers x 20 

 

Elites:

Chaos Terminators x 4

 - Khorne

 - Land Raider Dedicated Transport

 

Helbrute 

-Power Scourge

-Plasma Cannon

 

Fast Attack

Heldrake

 - Baleflamer

 

Heavy Support:

 

Havoc x 5

- 4x Heavy Bolter

 - Nurgle

 

Havoc x5

 - 4x Heavy Bolter

 - Nurgle

 

Maulerfiend

 - Lasher Tendrils

 

So for the test, I took out the Maulerfiend and put in the forgefiend of course, but that added 40 points, things had to come out, things had to change. Didn't change much, but the new list became:

 

HQ:
Chaos Lord 

 - Khorne

- Terminator Armor

 - Axe of Blind Fury

 

Khârn the Betrayer

 

Elites:
 

Chaos Terminator x4

 - Mark of Khorne

 - Land Raider 

      * Havoc Launcher

 

Helbrute

 - Power Scourge

 - Plasma Cannon

 

Troops

 

Chaos Cultists x18

 

Chaos Cultists x17

 

Khorne Berzerkers x20

 - Chain Axes

 

Fast Attack

 

Heldrake 

 - Baleflamer

 

Heavy Support

 

Havoc x5

 - 4x Heavy Bolter

 

Havoc x5

 - 4x Heavy Bolter

 

Forgefiend 

 - Hades Autocannons