Gunslingers

[Theredknight]

Iv been looking about and nosed through the dex,

Does anyone tool up your assault sarge with twin infernus, plasma or hand flamer? Or to many points to sink in there? It can still be handy as you'll get your +1 additional ccw.

 

I can see it being useful vs nids and space elves, more so than a fist or sword.

 

Just wondered if anyone else has :-)

[Memento Of Prospero]

After a couple games of play, All my drop pod sergeants on assault squads have double plasma. It gives you so much killing power before going in to mop up. with 2 plasmaguns or meltas, it lets you wipe a hyve tyrant off the map with 2 squads

[Theredknight]

In a pod yes that would definitely make sense.

I was thinking of going sterns in one pod, Tac in another dropping together and the third pod seemed a bit of a waste..now I can sit 5 guys at the back on the objective the devs are on, and have the other 5, 2 melta guns and a gunslinger infernus. That would deal death to a lot when on the deck, or if facing weak toughness units, flamer up.or marines, I could plasma up!

Why oh why didn't I see this before, making that last pod hurt will be nasty..

[Memento Of Prospero]

coming down with 6 plasma shots really hurts anything not AV 13.

[Squirrelloid]

I think gunslinging handflamers is my new favorite thing.  2x handflamer + 2x flamer is *4* templates.  Not only is that a nasty alpha strike (even if they get armor saves - make them roll enough and they'll fail some), but anyone who's charging you has to eat 4d3 automatic hits in overwatch (in addition to whatever the pistols do).

[Alyssis]

Now that would be something fun to try out! I usually never use flamers, except on my fragiosos!

I do however, more often, then not, use a squad with 2 meltas, and 2 plasma pistols on the sarge when DoAing! As ive mentioned in an earlier thread, those 2 plasma shots usually is enough to make sure that a tank gets wrecked, if im unlucky with the vehicle penetration rolls.. With at least one glancing from the plasma, its a wreck even if you just roll 1s and 2s when its supposed to explode! :P

And 4 shots of ap1/2 is awesome if you want to destroy something with an 2+ save..!

[teblin]

I could see having an entire Vanguard squad, each with two Plasma pistols, being both completely outrageous and hilarious (maybe just a single PW to give them something extra in CC).

 

Stick an SP with em, and see how many hits you can make.

[Alyssis]

I thought the best use of a vanguard squad was the heroic intervention rule, at which you can assault when deepstriking, instead of shooting..! :P

If i wanted a whole squad to shoot plasma when DoAing, it would be either a jump pack honor guard squad with 4 plasma guns, or sternguards of awesomeness in a pod!

[Memento Of Prospero]

I could see having an entire Vanguard squad, each with two Plasma pistols, being both completely outrageous and hilarious (maybe just a single PW to give them something extra in CC).

 

Stick an SP with em, and see how many hits you can make.

 

You can do that with an honour guard, which comes with a free priest!

[Theredknight]

If you give them the same pistol, is it then twin linked though? Just clearing up some rules confusion.

 

I can't see a rule anywhere saying it is? He's combined it is obvs not wanting another template in the face lol

[Memento Of Prospero]

If you give them the same pistol, is it then twin linked though? Just clearing up some rules confusion.

 

I can't see a rule anywhere saying it is? He's combined it is obvs not wanting another template in the face lol

 

This edition introduced the gunslinger rule. Models equiped with 2 pistols are not twin linked, they fire both pistols in the shooting phase.

[Demoulius]

Which, while not a game breaking thing is pretty awesome :) Some classic model like Cypher actually are equipped with 2 pistols and can be used to full effect now ^_^

 

I had a plasmapistol+chainsword model that I dident like the look off and snapped of the chainsword for the pistol instead :) in combat you get the same results and shooting you can the bolt pistol shot!

[Memento Of Prospero]

In the Grim Darkness of the far furture, there is only MORE DAKKA!

[Theredknight]

 

 

If you give them the same pistol, is it then twin linked though? Just clearing up some rules confusion.

 

I can't see a rule anywhere saying it is? He's combined it is obvs not wanting another template in the face lol

This edition introduced the gunslinger rule. Models equiped with 2 pistols are not twin linked, they fire both pistols in the shooting phase.

 

Exactly, in 5th I'm sure it said if a model was equipped with 2 of the same weapon it was twin linked?

But that rule is nowhere in the book now, and gunslinger is pistol specific, so a new rule to make some new weapon combos.

I'm loving the idea that my sarge will have a brace of pistols festooned about his person. Especially if those pistols are burny and able to make a sweet nid kebab!!

[Squirrelloid]

now i need to do the math on honorguard with 4x2 handflamers vs. 4 flamers...

 

Twice as many templates get twice as many hits, but your odds of wounding go down by ~16.6%.  So, assuming you hit 5 guys...

 

T3

8x5 = 40 hits, 50% wounds = 20 wounds

4x5 = 20 hits, 66.6% wounds = 13 and change (round nearest 14)

Difference: 7

 

T4

8x5 = 40, 33.3% wounds = 13 and change (round nearest 13)

4x5 = 20, 50% = 10

Difference: 3

 

T5

8x5 = 40, 16.6% = 6 and change (round nearest 7)

4x5 = 20, 33.3% = 6 and change (round nearest = 7)

 

Which is pretty much what you expect.  (Flamers don't catch up to dual handflamers on wounds until they have double the odds of scoring a wound, since they get half as many hits)

 

So, assuming the difference in AP doesn't make a difference, dual handflamers are better than flamers.  But are they enough better to justify the extra 45 points?  Your best case difference is 7 wounds at T3 per 5 models touched.  But T4 is pretty common, and that's only a difference of 3 wounds per 5 models touched.  Pretty clear its not worthwhile at T4+, which means the only army I can think of that has a common 6+ save (orks) doesn't have enough payoff for the handflamers.  Guard and Eldar (and Tau? can't remember) are both T3, but AP5 vs. 6 is a significant difference which will favor regular flamers again.

 

Oh yeah, 'nids.  I guess if you're blessed by a 'nid player running a genestealer or termagant horde, you might be in business.  I can't swear to saves and statlines off the top of my head though.  (Genestealers i'm pretty sure were 6+ normally, but i can't swear to their toughness, and termagants are T3 but i can't swear to their save...).

 

Of course, you also get twice as many overwatch hits with handflamers.  But the relative performance to flamers is going to stay the same.  (I suppose dual handflamers get +1 attack in melee as well, but you're paying +15 points per model for that privilege.)

 

Sadly, a squad of gunslinger handflamers does not look appealing.  Assault seargents, however, is a way to get extra flamers into the squad.

[dswanick]

I thought the best use of a vanguard squad was the heroic intervention rule, at which you can assault when deepstriking, instead of shooting..!

If i wanted a whole squad to shoot plasma when DoAing, it would be either a jump pack honor guard squad with 4 plasma guns, or sternguards of awesomeness in a pod!

10 Plasma gunslinging Wolf Guard in a Drop Pod work better for this, as they can't assault when they Deep Strike anyway. ;) It's just so darn expensive.

[nevaenuffbass]

I thought the best use of a vanguard squad was the heroic intervention rule, at which you can assault when deepstriking, instead of shooting..!

If i wanted a whole squad to shoot plasma when DoAing, it would be either a jump pack honor guard squad with 4 plasma guns, or sternguards of awesomeness in a pod!

10 Plasma gunslinging Wolf Guard in a Drop Pod work better for this, as they can't assault when they Deep Strike anyway. It's just so darn expensive.

And plasma pistols can assault after shooting whereas plasma guns can't.

For the honour guard, drop pod is probably better than jump packs (doa) as less chance of mishap, and actually kinda mopre accurate - which is important with short range. 15pts cheaper too.

[BloodyNightAngel]

And what about dual inferno pistols? Do they worth their points? For example in small asm squads in drop pors. You'll get 3 melta shots for not very big price.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The problem with infernius pistols is the effective range is too short. Pods still scatter somewhat, and you will often have to put the sergeant in arm's way to get shots off. Plasma will give you more more range after the initial impact, and the pods should let you aim for rear/side armour anyways.

[Theredknight]

I know everyone says it, but I actually have a tendency to roll misses of 1's very often with plasma, and then subsequently fail my saves..

I thought it was just me, but last 3 games iv killed my plasma gunner off by t1 or t2 ahh the dice gods are fickle!

[Demoulius]

Range on infernus is very limiting. Specialy when you want to use them as AT weapons.... Against multiple wound 2+ save models though they are king. Wound on 2's and your opponent can remove a full model (if they fail a cover/invunerable save mind) ^_^

[Baba Lem]

I'm starting to like them in pods.

[Theredknight]

Baba, have you tried this gunslinger h flamers? I haven't had the chance to game yet!!

[Jiron]

I have dual plasma on my tactical sergeant and also build a gunslinger captain with two plasma. Works nice.

[BloodyNightAngel]

I have dual plasma on my tactical sergeant and also build a gunslinger captain with two plasma. Works nice.

I can't say that it's a competetive choice :( Captain does not give any buff to the army. But 2 plasma pistols can really work nice with his BS 5...