Ishagu Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I was just flicking through DFTS and need to know if this option really is as good as it seems. From what I understand I can stick a locator beacon on the raven for a measly 10 points. This allows me to drop off termies (for example) within 6 inches of the flyer's base without them scattering even while its zooming? Thiis can only be done after the movement phase and after the raven has been in play for a full turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corlinjewell Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Since it is a locator beacon, I believe any deep striking troops can use it (so Jump packs, Gating Librarians, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroitchi Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Its a fine debate between RAI and RAW. As worded the locator beacon is used by deep striking units. No need any clarification with that. Yet on the rules for Skies of Fury or Skies of Blood, embarked troops may disembakred while zooming "as if they were deep striking." Key words, "as if," since its using those key words one could argue either way, just depends on who you are you playing with. Its not really deep striking by definition, but uses the deep striking rules in regards to scatter deployment and mishap tables in order to define disembarking off a zooming flyer. So a word of caution, clear RAI and RAW when using a Storm Raven with a locator Beacon with your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted May 27, 2013 Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 I am going to assume that it is indeed supposed to stop scatter on disembarking troops as they are supposed to be treated as if deepstriking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroitchi Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Keyword As if.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 They are not deep striking, which would require they be held in reserves. They do however deploy via the deep strike rules, meaning that they need to land on a point, which then scatters, and all marines must be base to base contact and no further than 6 inches from the center and a locator beacon removes the scatter test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 GW has pointed out in the past via FAQs that "as if" and "counts as" are treated as being that unit, gear or special rule. "As is Deep Striking" = Deep Striking. "Counts as a Power Fist" = Power Fist. In the case of Locator Beacons and Stormravens, yes, the scatting unit will not scatter if placed within 6" of the 'Raven. Too bad that doesn't work with Teleport Homers. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 See, I've been assuming it this way for a while, since that's how I understand it too, but the Storm Raven and Vanguard thread in the ++OR++ seems to tihnk otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 GW has pointed out in the past via FAQs that "as if" and "counts as" are treated as being that unit, gear or special rule. "As is Deep Striking" = Deep Striking. "Counts as a Power Fist" = Power Fist. In the case of Locator Beacons and Stormravens, yes, the scatting unit will not scatter if placed within 6" of the 'Raven. Too bad that doesn't work with Teleport Homers. SJ Makes sense to me, there would be a difference jumping out out a plane using the Mark 1 eyeball for guidance and jumping out while wirelessly smartlinked to the planes GPS putting up waypoint info on your helmets HUD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infornography Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 See, I always figured that was the entire reason the option was there on the storm raven. So you could do exactly that, drop the contents onto the battlefield with accuracy and no risk while never dropping out of zooming. I generally consider it worth it for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 As did I, but that thread in the ++OR++ rocked my world. Though my friends read it the same as me, and none of their armies even have Storm Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corlinjewell Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 See, I always figured that was the entire reason the option was there on the storm raven. So you could do exactly that, drop the contents onto the battlefield with accuracy and no risk while never dropping out of zooming. I generally consider it worth it for that purpose. I think this is the way I originally would read it. Unless I'm looking at the wrong post, the OR thread is specifically about vanguards and their heroic intervention special rule. I understand why people think Vanguards should not be able to assault after Skies of Fury, but I think just not scattering is a reasonable reading of the rules (especially because you have to be within 6" of where the Raven ended up in its movement phase). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Well, the locator beacon thing was a topical branch in that discussion. But again, none of the folks I play had an issue with it. One even suggested that I run Vanguard and HI with them, since that'd actually make Vanguard worth taking. I said that didn't sit right with me though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonFists333 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Can the beacon be used by units in reserve that are NOT embarked on the Storm Raven (while zooming) but still deepstriking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Definitely. Though not on the turn the Storm Raven arrives from Reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonFists333 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Hot Damn that is a tweak on SM strategy thats just too good to pass up, with the 3+ reserves, I usually play against IG, so another way of getting melta in close is always good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2004 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I would love this rule to be FAQ'd!!! Had quite a debate in my local gaming center tonight over this as I was trying to unload a terminator assault squad and dreadnaught on the turn I arrived using the locator beacon, and a whole row started. It was literally 4v1 on the issue, with me being the minority! Something of the locator beacon must be on the table, they are not deep striking if they are jumping out of the back of it... ended up rolling odd and even and I got odd and the rule stood.... God my opponent (who is generally a nice guy) actually threatened to leave, pack up his models and go home. It was unnecessary to say the least fs. I also tried to use a deep striking assault squad to benefit from the locator beacon, as reserves now say move a then b, c etc etc and not they all arrive at once. So once the raven was in place being reserve unit a, unit B the jump packs were trying to use its locator beacon? Both these issues need FAQ man, literally having to fight every rule I bring up in the place being the one SM player. Thankfully I won the game 9-1 =] =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 The locator beacon does need to be on the table at the start of the turn to be used, so in your example the Termis and Dread would have scattered. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I would love this rule to be FAQ'd!!! Had quite a debate in my local gaming center tonight over this as I was trying to unload a terminator assault squad and dreadnaught on the turn I arrived using the locator beacon, and a whole row started. I also tried to use a deep striking assault squad to benefit from the locator beacon, Thankfully I won the game 9-1 =] =] Yeah, hate to burst your bubble but you "won" by cheating. The Locator Beacon clearly states (C:SM, pg.67; C:BA, pg.31; C:DA, pg.65) it must be on the board from the start of the turn to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2004 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I never cheated ha ha the guys never assaulted or anything the turn they arrived just got out of the stormraven and sat within 6' of it. It then went to hover mode the next turn so they could have gotten out normally and assaulted from there. Also it wasn't a massive impact to the game them units not scattering as they had to trek a fair distance to actually do anything useful and done very little. The terminators got tied up with a bunch of scarabs, after they ate the stormraven lol! The dreadnaught tied up a bunch of necrons with shields and weapons, both non scoring units and this was on like turn 4 anyway. Would have won the game anyway sir, maybe not as convincingly however. =] Edit; PS the assault squad actually never landed near the stormraven as I changed my mind they landed the other side of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yes, you did... What could he have done differently had one or both of those units had a mishap or bad scatter? You may not have done much with them, but you seem to disregard the effect on your opponents tactical choices or options because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert2004 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 So whats the point of the locator beacon on the stormraven if it has to be on the table at the start of the turn for it to be used? I was thinking about this last night using skies of fury will drop a unit off and scatter and takes a dangerous terrain test fair enough. When it stops and should it survive until your next turn the units can just jump out without scattering as the rule states if moved more than 6', so once it drops them off it can move normally? The point of units arriving on the same turn with reserves will mean its effectively useless as it has to be on the board at the start of the turn its used. So can someone clarify the actual use of the locator beacon on the stormraven? Still learning the rules through and through so maybe I've missed something big here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 You can use it the turn after for any of your deep-striking reserves yet to arrive, or you can use it the turn after to disembark with precision (drop off a small squad with a pair of meltaguns in the 3" someone left behind his tanks) for example or maybe its a ploy to guarantee a late-game deep struck troops choice lands right on an objective. You dont have to use skies of fury the turn your Stormraven arrives from reserves, in some cases its advantageous not to. Just a couple of possibilities you might want to consider. Like most things, its as useful and worthwhile as any other thing you can find a use for that allows you to achieve your objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 A locator beacon can effectively keep the passengers on a Stornraven safe by allowing you to leave to "passengers" in reserve while the 'Raven flies to spots on the board you need those "passengers" to drop on. If the 'Raven is destroyed before all the "passengers" can arrive, then at least you don't lose any "passengers" in the crash. Effectively, the 'Raven acts like a Monolith, allowing units in Deep Strike Reserve to use the 'Raven's location as a means to arrive without scatter. The benefit of allowing its own passengers to not scatter while zooming is an added pro countered by the con of not being able to use it on the turn the 'Raven arrives. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yes, you did... What could he have done differently had one or both of those units had a mishap or bad scatter? You may not have done much with them, but you seem to disregard the effect on your opponents tactical choices or options because of it. Agreed. A Storm Raven with an embarked Terminator Squad and Dreadnought represent a much greater target opportunity (both for threat level and reward for destroying it) than the three units separately. I almost guarantee that if you had not disembarked when you did (in order to use the Locator Beacon per RAW), your opponent's shooting phase would have unfolded significantly differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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