I have an answer to the Tau

[Custodian Athiair]

Right my brother and I were having a discussion about how strong the Tau codex is right now - I'm sure eventually like most codexs it will die down but for now there is a problem.  None the less I think I have a solution.

Rhino/Drop Pod Flamer/Melta Spam.

 

Currently the best codex in my opinion for the list is Space Wolves, running something like
10 Grey Hunters w/ twin flamers, rhino (x as many as possible)

Wolf Guard w/ combi-meltas and meltaguns everywhere and drop pod (x as many as possible)

Rune Priests w/ cover save psychic power

Long Fangs w/ Lascannons (to deal with RIptides)

 

Using something like that, you combine the list to do something like.

Fly forward with so many rhino's that you can fit on the board. Charge forward taking casualties and hoping to get close enough to unleash as many flamers as possible on to that gunline of fire warriors and those pesky markerlight pathfinders which love to hide in cover.

Meanwhile to deal with the annoying Longstrike and Broadsides that are designed to blow open your Rhino's, the Wolf Guard drop in and unleash all the melta death on Longstrike especially.

The Long Fangs fire constantly at the Riptides or anything else of the sort. Punching armour when they get bored.

Rune Priests are there solely to provide cover saves where possible mainly on rhinos.

 

This is also just about possible with Chaos Space Marines, although you lose out with cover saves and drop pods, but get Dirge Casters on the rhinos.

Also Vanilla Space Marines, you maintain drop pods but lack the extra flamer/melta. However with rumoured tactical marines rumours heavy flamers might be making an appearance and could make the Vanilla codex very powerful.

[War Angel]

Rumored tacticals? Is our codex finally near?

[Montuhotep]

I would have thought, if it was this year, a Marine Codex will be October time - make it the big pre-Christmas splash release announced at GDUK in September....

 

I can see this trick working, though I agree the Wolves are the best for it at the moment - perhaps the BA as well, since their jump pack mobility means they can be up close pretty quickly. Quickly enough? That I don't know for sure, but since Baal Predators can Scout, that means a Flamestorm cannon or two can get very close. Will get blown away almost immediately and its a trick that depends on getting the first turn eith the BA, but could potentially be very nasty.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

...so your solution is basically "throw your army in front of the Tau guns and hope enough of them arrive alive to do damage?"  Err, no thanks.  Space Marines do not do the zerg rush very well; our units are too point-intensive.

 

A mixture of high-strength, long-range guns combined with a drop pod disruption element still seems the best way to go.  Lascannons and massed plasma for nuking Riptides; TFCs , Whirlwinds, and multiple frag missile launchers of your choice (Devs, Typhoons, TDA with CML) to blow away Fire Warriors; drop pod flamer units (ICDs, Sternguard) for clearing Pathfinders and kroot snipers.

 

The Riptide is the sticking point, but I have to say that my standard builds haven't had any issues killing two Dreadknights in a single turn when Null Zone was involved.  I understand the difference in that DKs charge forward while Tides hang out in the back, but simply replacing rapid firing plasma with massed lascannons is not that hard.  Twinlinked lascannons are available in literally every force org slot in C:SM with the exception of the HQ -- and that only applies when you're not included Forgeworld since Chaplain Dreads can take them.

 

Conversely, ignore the Riptides and kill the rest of the army.  Three of them before upgrades is well over 500 points -- after upgrades you're looking at at least 600 total, probably more -- which will leave most such armies short of critical items. . . like Troops to hold objectives.

[Zombie P]

If you are using SW to deal with tau, you have forgotten a single highly important power that has made necrons cry since they got reanimation proticols...

Jaws of the World Wolf. 

 

S' all I have to say for riptides. 

 

As for longstrike, same routine as all high value vehicles, melta pod.

 

ZP

[Corby]

And then 3 riptides walk over your army. This is not a solution to Tau. Units like the NDK or Khorne hounds are a better solution to Tau. You close the distance the first turn. If he blows you up in his turn , the game is going to be hard for you. If he doesn't , the game will be very hard for him. Once most of the weaponry that harms the Riptides ( and with how durable Riptides are , they won't just fall over to a couple of lascannons or missiles. ) is dead , The Tau army can then dance around blowing you up. 

[greatcrusade08]

my scouts have always loved the tau, i dont see that changing with thier new dex.. just got a little tougher..

however our codex is coming up later this year, so hopefully it will balance out the scales somewhat

[W0lfie]

If you want to fight tau, get as many jaws priests on the table as you can.  They massacre I2 units, can remove riptides from the board wholesale and is one of the only ways to nuke a farsight bomb fast enough to prevent it making it's points back (VERY difficult otherwise).  

 

Also, don't try to kill riptides with lascannons.  A Riptide with FNP and 3++ will simply put your lascannons to waste.  Focus on the squishier parts of his army.  The reason that riptides are so expensive is their durability, not their damage output (which is only slightly better than a hammerhead).  Lascannon spam may work against the wraightknight, but not the riptide.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Your analysis is discounting second and third order effects, Wolfie.  Yes, the Riptide can deflect incoming lascannon fire it pops its 3++.  However, if it does that, then it's not going Nova and throwing an AP2 pie plate, possibly ignoring cover, at our Marines.  It also is making a roll every turn that can possibly inflict a wound on itself, making our job easier.  At this point, your enemy is effectively playing defense hamstringing his own offensive capabilities in favor of durability -- you have the initiative and are dictating the terms of the engagement.  Step one to victory.

[W0lfie]

Your analysis is discounting second and third order effects, Wolfie.  Yes, the Riptide can deflect incoming lascannon fire it pops its 3++.  However, if it does that, then it's not going Nova and throwing an AP2 pie plate, possibly ignoring cover, at our Marines.  It also is making a roll every turn that can possibly inflict a wound on itself, making our job easier.  At this point, your enemy is effectively playing defense hamstringing his own offensive capabilities in favor of durability -- you have the initiative and are dictating the terms of the engagement.  Step one to victory.

That only matter against tanks.  Even without nova charging it's gun, it can still throw a S8 AP2 large blast in your face, it's offense only suffers if it is shooting landraiders and predators really (where +1S and Ordnance really make a difference).  Most people using one will charge the shields every turn, which will probably remove 1 or so wounds per game (since FNP still works on nova wounds).  Even without charging the shields, jumping into a ruin gives it a 4+, meaning it will take you an insane amount of firepower, still.  

 

With Nova shield up, and FNP, a Riptide will take 40.5 lascannon shots at BS4 to take down.  47.7 if it has drones.  That's similar to the number of bs4 bolter shots Vulkan He'stan can tank (54).

 

So no, if you are going to try and kill it, don't use lascannons.  Force weapons, Jaws of the World Wolf, Lukas the Trikster etc, or DE, they eat MCs for Breakfast.

[*Furyou Miko]

Best army to do the zerg rushing is Battle Sisters. :p we can do the same thing SW do with the rhinos and twin special weapons, but our troopers are only 13 points each and if we want we can put them in FAV13 dozer-blades. Plus we don't then have to worry about our drop pods being Interceptored.

 

Best thing to take down a riptide? Exorcist or plas/meltagunners. That or just throw a couple of hammernators at it (I think they're still slightly cheaper than axe-and-shield vanguards?) Or you can just go crazy with heavy bolters and assault cannons. Multilasers for guard. Assault cannon or lasplas razorbacks should eat the riptide for breakfast. That's without getting into stormtalons.

[Ishagu]

The answer to the Tau is simply a large drop pod focused army with SS TH termies and Sternguard vets.

 

Also some Whirlwinds for their infantry

[spacewolflars]

I played a 1,000 point game against a tau army last night. There wasn't any of this "I'll just ignore this or that to kill the other". Here's a quick run-down of how it went:

 

My list:

Wolf Priest w/jumpack with 10 Skyclaws.

2 packs of 10 Grey Hunters 1 with lots of plasma, the other with melta

2 Vindicators.

 

His list (roughly):

Farsight with 2 plasma bodyguard

4 units of 10 fire warriors

4 pathfinders

one broadside

and ... oh yeah, A RIPTIDE

 

The game was objectives, of which we had 5. He got first turn

 

His turn one: The riptide prances around, then overcharges a pie-plate. The pie plate landed on a unit of Grey Hunters and one of the Vindicators. The Vindicator goes BOOOOOM! Half of the Grey Hunters died from the pie plate and the resulting exploding Vindicator, even though I had a cover save. The other half of the unit turns around and goes home.

 

My turn one: The Skyclaws and Wolf Priest move up on the right flank on the other side of a ruined building. The other Vindicator moves up on the right more towards the center on the other side of the building. The Vindicator then dropped a pie plate on a unit of fire warriors and the broadside (this was the only target he had). No damage to the broadside but 6 fire warriors go splat and the other 4 go back home to fishlandia. My other unit of Grey Hunters took the objective all the way on the left where his army can't shoot at them.

 

His turn two: He shoots down one or two Skyclaws. The Vindicator gets blown up by a combo of the broadside and the riptide. Farsight lands in front of the other Grey Hunters and kills one or two of them with plasma. At this point I have only the Skyclaws w/the Wolf Priest and the Grey Hunters.

 

My Turn Two: The Wolf Priest and Skyclaws charge the broadside from the other side of the hill where most of the overwatch shots can't even see them. The Broadside dies. D'OH. The Grey Hunters shoot plasma guns and bolters into Farsight and his bodyguards. All that is left is Farsight with three wounds left.

 

His turn Three: The Wolf Priest and Skyclaws, being out in the open, get erased by the 3 units of fire warriors (it only took two by the way). The riptide shot a couple of Grey Hunters. Farsight shoots, then charges the Grey Hunters, who whiff on overwatch. This assault lasted a few more turns before Farsight whittled the remaining four Grey Hunters down. They at least took him down to one wound left.

 

So in the end their super overwatch didn't do much. I could see where it could have, I just got lucky and was able to hide from it. Going over it there is a grand total of nothing that I could have done against the riptide. If I'd taken Long Fangs, they would have been pie-plated instead of the Vindicators. I just can't see what would have done much against one riptide (much less three that he takes in his normal 1850 army). Jaws sounds good, but first you must get within 24" of them. You'll be eating pie and trying to dodge a strength five wall of ammo. The riptide has skyfire too. So with pods you can almost count on one unit per riptide getting killed when they land. The only thing that sounds even half viable is to hide behind a hill and wait til they come to you then hope you can jump 'em.

 

I'm looking for anything that can counter them. Right now my only defense against tau is to say "You win. What other army did you bring".

[spacewolflars]

I have spoken to a (very smug) Tau player. Apparently the riptides have Interceptor to drop AP 2 or 3 pie plates on top of troops that arrive by deepstrike. It seems like they have an answer to almost everything. The pie plate seemed to have a pretty long range too. It seems like you better hope that you land where they don't see you and then flame/melt as many of his troops etc as possible before you get holes punched in you.

 

Has anyone had much luck using pods?

[Axagoras]

Using a suicide sternguard squad might work but its its kitted out for interceptor it will drop that plate on them and boom (only bs3 so might have a shot)

[Leonaides]

land so close that it cant hit you without hitting itself/friendly troops? 6" disembark from the pod gives a lot of wiggle-room!