Tau giving me a hard time, any suggestions?

[Friz 80]

Since the new book has came out there has been a increase in Tau players in our local store. I usually just read through forums and try to figure it out, but I figured I would come here to as all my fellow SW players. I am open to any ideas, I am also sure with the new Eldar book about to launch we will see an increase in them as well, with the new wraith knight at their disposal. I just hope we can keep up with all the new groups, and flying circus filth . Just a general overview some tips. I just started playing space wolves I purchased a great deal of them I will tell you what I have and maybe you can tell me what I need to add more of, keep in mind I have not modeled any of these yet they are still in boxes so any advice as what to paint them as and how to arm would be great.

 

5 boxes of standard wolf pack troops

2 box WG terminators

3 land speeders

2 assault squads

4 devastator squads

5 rhinos

1 land raider

I have all the Characters

1 drop pod

2 box TWC

2 rune priest

1 rune priest in term armor

I may have forgotten some but that's a general list also can anyone recommend any forgeworld stuff?

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Grey Mage]

An Aegis Line would do you good.

 

So would a whirlwind or two- and you can use them as WW Hyperios if you so choose.

 

As for FW... not alot of SW specific stuff, you might enjoy a variant landraider or some alternate predator turrets....

 

Overall though, a couple of razorbacks for some bonus firepower via your Long Fangs might go well.

[Roma]

How easily can tau get markerlights?

 

I play an army that footstool and relies on cover from stealth and storm caller, so wondering how easily can tau reduce cover at 1500?

[Khine]

How easily can tau get markerlights?

 

I play an army that footstool and relies on cover from stealth and storm caller, so wondering how easily can tau reduce cover at 1500?

 

2 markerlights removes all cover. at 1000 pts you can have from 2 markerlights all the way up to 10 ish. Take that to 1500.. your probably looking at between 6-20.

[Roma]

Thanks, and are their chances of hitting good?

 

They just have to hit, or can i make saves@

/do they have to wound?

[Grey Mage]

Markerlights dont wound, they just hit.

 

So target the markerlight squads first- particularly their pathfinders, who have alot of markerlights available them. This is where a whirlwind comes in handy- pinning, S 4 AP 5 and ignores cover... pathfinders have a 5+ cover save.

 

The Skyray is an AA platform, but it has two markerlights on it that work rather well and it seems to be a more common tank these days now that its truely AA.... Long Fangs should probably prioritize this and hammerheads early on, with Battlesuits being a close second.

 

That Drop Pod could easily house a Dreadnaught with a Heavy Flamer- great for roasting pathfinders and firewarrior squads....

[hrafnkel]

One thing I've found particularly helpful is multiple charges. you can't outshoot the Tau. Whirlwinds yes, they're helpful.

[montegue]

I'm currently looking at tweaking my all comers list to have the following -

TWC Lord, Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer, 2 Fenris Buddies, Saga of the Bear, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Armor

Rune Priest w/Chooser of the Slain

4 TWC, two with SS

3 groups of 10 Grey Hunters each, all on foot with varying weaponry.

2 Long Fang Packs, each with 2x Missile and 2xLas Canno
1 Whirlwind

1 Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer and Twin Linked heavy flamer, in a drop pod

Deploy Long Fangs and ADL at the back of the bus, out of the 36" Marker Light range. Deploy other elements forward


Turn 1 - Deadnaught comes down on Pathfinders and scours them out, assuming he doesn't just up and die to interceptor fire. Whirlwind fires at the remaining pathfinders. If pathfinders are clear, all Longfang fire goes to the Riptide or Tank. TWC rush their lines, drawing fire (I do not expect them to survive the run, I want them to pull focus and soak wounds). Grey hunters advance towards objectives or hold objectives, or just start their slog

Proceeding turns - Hopefully the TWC deliver their delicious Extra Large, sausage and pepperoni Wolf Lord in record time. If the Dreadnaught is still kicking, he will do his level best to keep scouring out the xenos scum. Whirlwind continues to pressue their guys in cover, clearing up bodies for the Thunder Wolf charge. Long fangs continue to pound infantry and armored targets with missile and las cannon fire. Rune Priest provides rerolls, and that's about it.

I don't know that this will work. Honestly, as the Grey Hunters slog the board, they provide other tasty choices for the tau to shoot with impunity. Then again, if they are shooting grey hunters, they aren't shooting thunder wolves or the Dreadnaught. Then again, they can shoot a bajillion times every shooting phase.

Edit - Hmmmm...with some minor tweaking, I can make it two whirlwinds, one group of 5 longfangs (2 Las, 3 ML), and an extra TWC. That's more wounds for the lord's unit to soak up, and more nasty Whirlwind fire against infantry in cover. Perhaps too tailored for Tau, though, to be all comers.

[hrafnkel]

Against Tau, your 30 grey hunters are toast. You typically want to get into close combat as fast as possible, and that means a transport. You could also have the rune priest walk with the GH packs and have him give them a 5+ cover save. But again, against Tau and their markerlights, close to useless IMO.

[Friz 80]

I have 1 razor back and 2 whirlwinds. I am curious if imperial guard have any troops to take in forge world that may help . I am curious how do those weapon platforms do in battle? I think that drop pod filled with rockets looks interesting that forge world offers. I appreciate all your guys help it will only be a matter of time before the new eldar are unleashed and I can only imagine what they are going to be like. I picked up a defense line today I have heard of people using it but it has been a slow adoption rate in our local store.

[Bosco]

Your opponent will have a fixed number of markerlights available every turn, and if you prioritize targets well they'll have even fewer available every following turn.  

 

Force your opponent to have to choose between multiple bad scenarios and use up those marker lights.  Sure, they can remove/eliminate cover for a couple of markerlights on your storm caller/ADL protected troops, but making them do so on your terms is better than letting them not have to do so and apply them to other applications to their greater benefit.  Every 2 markerlights they spend getting rid of your cover saves is 2 they don't have available for +1BS or other nonsense that they'd rather use it on.

 

Put pressure on your opponent from the onset and make them back pedal to react to your plan rather than playing into theirs.

 

For the all comers list posted previously:

I'd suggest finding pods for at least 2 of those grey hunter squads, possibly a rhino for the 3rd or just footslog them with the priest in the rear.  Overload one flank with pods(preferably the one with more long ranged weaponry so he doesn't just pump it into your troops from across the board for the rest of the game) and rush it with the TWC while the Long Fangs and Whirlwind set up shop on their marker light sources for the first turn.  Tau can get interceptor on multiple units reasonably easy so a single pod is going to see its contents shot up at the end of the movement phase when it arrives.  Multiple pods significantly improve the impact of your alpha strike and 3 means you have 2 arrive on the first turn giving you a follow-up pod to arrive at a later point for shoring up your attack.

 

Good luck!

[skeletoro]

An Aegis Line would do you good.

 

So would a whirlwind or two- and you can use them as WW Hyperios if you so choose.

 

As for FW... not alot of SW specific stuff, you might enjoy a variant landraider or some alternate predator turrets....

 

Overall though, a couple of razorbacks for some bonus firepower via your Long Fangs might go well.

Hmm, I'm curious... why WW Hyperios?

 

I mean... sure. You've got a whirlwind model. And yeah, they're AA. But it's ~100 points for a Heavy 1 krak missile. For 100 points, you could get 4 Long Fangs with missile launchers. You do miss out on twin-linked (so you'd expect to hit with 6/9 long fang missiles on average, vs 8/9 hyperios missiles), but those Long Fangs are useful against ground targets, too - and with Prescience the four Long fangs will hit about 44/36 times against air, in a pinch.

 

Is the Hyperios really worth all those points? It seems hideously overpriced to me, especially next to the Hyperios weapons platform, with the same armament for under half the price. Personally, I think the WW Hyperios needs the following changes to be competitive:

 

1) 1-4 per FOC slot, like Hyperios weapons platforms

2) No more than 60-65 points per model.

[skeletoro]

Personally I'm wondering (not having yet looked at the Tau codex) whether a Loganwing force with several specialized drop pod combi weapon WG units is going to be very effective, now. There's a lot of flexibility in such a unit as you can choose who to deploy on turn 1, and where.

 

1-2 combi flamer squads (ie.. a drop pod full of WG with combi flamers, some TDA/assault weapons soon,perhaps a heavy flamer thrown in there)

1-2 combi plasma squads (like the flamer squad above but with combi plas and an assault cannon)

1-2 combi melta squads (possibly smaller unit size, because more than 4 combi meltas seems overkill unless you split them across several rounds of shooting, which kinda defies the point of having combi weapons in drop pods. Perhaps all TDA, given this fact. Throw in an AssCan or CML)

1-2 space wolf contemptors in lucius drop pods

 

You'd have options for a) roasting priority cover-using shooty units, b) anti-MEQ/TDA, c) anti-artillery/tank, d) close combat punch with the dreads (and general WG close combat nastiness)

 

It might be quite a fun kind of list to play, too. With such specialized units you'd have interesting choices. You'd need to watch out for interceptor shots, but you should be able to avoid turn 1 markerlight pwnage.

[skeletoro]

Your opponent will have a fixed number of markerlights available every turn, and if you prioritize targets well they'll have even fewer available every following turn.

Force your opponent to have to choose between multiple bad scenarios and use up those marker lights. Sure, they can remove/eliminate cover for a couple of markerlights on your storm caller/ADL protected troops, but making them do so on your terms is better than letting them not have to do so and apply them to other applications to their greater benefit. Every 2 markerlights they spend getting rid of your cover saves is 2 they don't have available for +1BS or other nonsense that they'd rather use it on.

Good luck!

Stormcaller is good anyway, but the fact (actually, I'm assuming this is how it works; I haven't actually looked at the Tau codex yet) that the Tau commander can choose how to use their markerlights means that:

1) Normally stormcaller is worth a 5+ invulnerable save (assuming your opponent chooses to shoot at the protected unit(s), of course).

2) Against Tau, stormcaller is worth less than or equal to (1).

This is because it's worth EITHER a) whatever the Tau commander has to give up to negate your save (e.g. +1 BS), OR the save. It can't be worth MORE than the 5+ save, assuming your opponent is rational. If markerlights can be used either to negate Stormcaller OR auto-win the game, you should definitely expect that your opponent will choose the latter!

If they don't have to pay anything to negate the save (they have excess markerlights... can that happen?) then stormcaller is worth nothing. The Tau commander gets to make the choice, and you should assume he or she will put his/her markerlights to good use. So... removing a 5+ save might net the Tau commander 50% extra damage (per unit that shoots at it? Or is the benefit of markerlights specific to a single unit's attacks?) while +1 BS might be.. 25% extra damage (for one unit I'm guessing? Hell, are Tau base BS4? I assume so, now that pretty much everything save bloodclaws are). If you use Stormcaller, and the Tau commander cancels it instead of getting that extra BS, the benefit of stormcaller is to negate the +1 BS. You've reduced damage by (I'm guessing!) 20%, instead of reducing it by 33% like stormcaller usually would.

Or am I missing something?

I mean, stormcaller is a pretty good power. I'm just not really sure it has more utility against markerlights than in other contexts. In fact, the reverse appears to be true. I should probably actually read the codex though, eh?

In short, yes, if you are going to present your opponent with choices, you should definitely, absolutely, make them difficult choices. BUT assuming that your opponent will choose well, a difficult choice (e.g. "You can either have $10 or $11 - your choice!") is not going to be worse than either of those two options forced upon you (e.g. "here's $10" or "here's 11.").

[Marshal Wilhelm]

An Aegis Line would do you good.

 

So would a whirlwind or two

 

How do you feel the WW compares to the Thunderfire Cannon against the Tau?

[Castellan Michael]

Best thing from Forge World for Wolves (IMO) is a Storm Eagle, our only legit flyer. Now its cost in game...well that always hurts. A flyer would help you hang tough against those zenos commies. 

[Friz 80]

its amazing how many people are curious on how to stop the tau I am thankful for all the ideas you guys have gave me,as i said fore in a few weeks i will be asking for help with eldar. I am a long me fantasy player 6h is my first go at 40k so forgive me for any dumb questions but can sombody explain or provide a link to what logan wing is i assume it is our hero logan and deathwing terminators . also how should i paint my wolf packs as GH,BC, or WG . i hear some swear by blood claws d other grey hunters.

[montegue]

At 90 pounds sterling, the Storm Eagle is just too much. I'd like my wife to not murder me in my sleep. 

[Grey Mage]

 

An Aegis Line would do you good.

 

So would a whirlwind or two- and you can use them as WW Hyperios if you so choose.

 

As for FW... not alot of SW specific stuff, you might enjoy a variant landraider or some alternate predator turrets....

 

Overall though, a couple of razorbacks for some bonus firepower via your Long Fangs might go well.

Hmm, I'm curious... why WW Hyperios?

 

I mean... sure. You've got a whirlwind model. And yeah, they're AA. But it's ~100 points for a Heavy 1 krak missile. For 100 points, you could get 4 Long Fangs with missile launchers. You do miss out on twin-linked (so you'd expect to hit with 6/9 long fang missiles on average, vs 8/9 hyperios missiles), but those Long Fangs are useful against ground targets, too - and with Prescience the four Long fangs will hit about 44/36 times against air, in a pinch.

 

Is the Hyperios really worth all those points? It seems hideously overpriced to me, especially next to the Hyperios weapons platform, with the same armament for under half the price. Personally, I think the WW Hyperios needs the following changes to be competitive:

 

1) 1-4 per FOC slot, like Hyperios weapons platforms

2) No more than 60-65 points per model.

Its on the edge of overpriced, but in my experience the interceptor rule is worth it.

 

And no... no way shold they be 1-4 per slot. They just need a second shot to be worthwhile without any doubt IMHO.

 

 

 

 

An Aegis Line would do you good.

 

So would a whirlwind or two

 

How do you feel the WW compares to the Thunderfire Cannon against the Tau?

 

Id say the whirlwind is superior- theres not alot of T3 you want to instakill, so the S5 AP4 is more than enough to remove fire warriors hanging out behind their aegis lines... and the cover ignoring large blast is more likely to hit large numbers of pathfinders than the 4 smaller blasts in my experience.

 

However, I think whats more important than those points to this thread is that the SWs cant get a TFC.

[skeletoro]

Two missiles for a FOC slot is still too few, I think. But with a second shot, they'd at least be ballpark reasonably priced. They're not edge of overpriced right now. They're about double what they should be. That's hugely overpriced!

[Grey Mage]

Compare it to the other AA options we have...thats the Aegis Line- an immobile, must be manned to be useful terrain piece, the similar and strangely more vulnerable in many ways bastion, and the hyperios platforms....

 

I wont lie, the hyperios platforms are pretty sweet. But theyre rather fragile, and also immobile. Atleast your opponent doesnt get to know where they go ahead of time though.

[Roma]

Loganwing is Logan with wolf guard troops, often in terminator armour.

 

"wing" is commonly used with armies that have terminators as troops, for example deathwing (belial makes deathwing terminators troops), draigowing (draigo makes palladin terminators troops), loganwing.

[Friz 80]

Thanks for explaining that. Lots of guys at our shop don't want to help a girl out when she ask questions. I just think lots of them are afraid to give me tips because they don't want to lose to a girl.....lol

[Grimtooth]

I think MavGirl faced the same issue when she picked the Wolves as her army and started to lay the smackdown on some guys.  I think you face the double-whammy of being both a girl and a Wolves player......LOL.  I forget who the other woman was that plays Wolves on the forum here, but I think she got the same treatment. 

 

Here you will probably be tossed around the "Fang" a bit until you are nice and bruised and then given a bunch of ale and elk meat as a welcome gift.

[Friz 80]

Thanks....correct being a wolves player does increase their fear. Guess I suppose to play battle sisters or eldar..:)