New Eldar and us?

[BloodTzar]

Hello guys,

 

I have been reading all the rummors, all kinds of assumptions, I do not think all can be true. But the new Eldar baby looks scary, even the rummors about wraithguard having AP2 templates...SCARY...So how do you see BA standing against new super shooty-eldar trickery?

 

~BT

[knife&fork]

Just about everything has been leaked, but I think it's a bit too early to try and cover all bases until Eldar players have had a chance to run some lists. 

 

Generally we are looking at: 

Very shooty, very mobile, awesome psykers. Good but not broken flyer, storm ravens beware. 

 

Below average toughness, saves and HPs. Volume of fire will hurt except against wraith heavy builds.

 

Lots of mid strength shooting and lances, low model count lists will have a problem. 

[BloodTzar]

To me it seems like going back and grabing our Las/Plas Razors, or even worse just plain with HB's. 

As much I dislike bikes of any kind, I think dexes like this will force me to get some just be able to keep up with the speed/volume of fire.

[teblin]

Lots of deep-striking methinks, so we can get up close and personal with melta and plasma. Heroic intervention will be handy too, since I believe blast template weapons don't function properly in Overwatch.

 

Deep striking Land Raiders full of Hammernators, and on the note of storm shields, fitting them in wherever you can to make use of that excellent 3+ invuln.

[BloodTzar]

Lol dont even start with DSing Land Raiders, one of the most useless thing ever... but anyways i can see termies with 3++/5+ FNP in your face  working, but arent DA better for this case?

[teblin]

Well, I think a DS'd LR works because it means it doesn't have to soak up tons of fire just to get across the board.

 

Once it arrives, either the enemy spends a lot of time and resources trying to deal with it, or they ignore it and it causes havoc.

 

It's also much better than DS-ing termies on their own because the LR prevents the passengers from being targeted directly. It also means the LR, on its second turn, can attempt to ram nearby enemy vehicles and tank shock squads.

 

Instead of having to take 2 turns (or maybe even 3 or 4) driving across the board to disgorge its occupants, the LR can arrive and on its next turn allow an assault. Sure, it's vulnerable to melta weapons and such, but so is a normal-deployment LR once it reaches the enemy lines.

[Hellios]

Well, I think a DS'd LR works because it means it doesn't have to soak up tons of fire just to get across the board.

 

Once it arrives, either the enemy spends a lot of time and resources trying to deal with it, or they ignore it and it causes havoc.

 

It's also much better than DS-ing termies on their own because the LR prevents the passengers from being targeted directly. It also means the LR, on its second turn, can attempt to ram nearby enemy vehicles and tank shock squads.

 

Instead of having to take 2 turns (or maybe even 3 or 4) driving across the board to disgorge its occupants, the LR can arrive and on its next turn allow an assault. Sure, it's vulnerable to melta weapons and such, but so is a normal-deployment LR once it reaches the enemy lines.

 

 

Have you played against Eldar? Now I can't speak for the new codex... but the easiest ways for me destroy LRs with my Eldar are all within 12 inches of the LR. Yay... Now my Fire Dragons, Wraithguard, Avatar, Haywire grenade platforms don't need to travel across the board.

 

Also if some of the rumors I've read are true... Melta and all that is nice... but 4+ Jink saves, and the downgrade pens to glance Serpent field might put a cramp on Alpha strikes... I'd rather double the number of terminators and just deepstrike them. Also are you playing on 4x4 or 4x6 The speed of the Eldar could easily leave you stranded on a larger board.

 

However, I think we really need to see what Eldar players are running. A wraith heavy list will be very different from a guardian heavy list.... Infantry lists will be different to mechanized lists.

[BloodTzar]

I think things like this:

 

"I find the new Wraithguard pretty insane... S10 Ap2 24" with instakill/pen on a 6 or exchange it for a S4 AP2 flamer with the same special rule, WS4 BS4 I5 T6 fearless and if you include a seer they can get AS 2+ with a psychic power"

 

Will be bothering us a lot ... mainly the 6 = ID (no more FNP)

[Leonaides]

Well, I think a DS'd LR works because it means it doesn't have to soak up tons of fire just to get across the board.

 

Once it arrives, either the enemy spends a lot of time and resources trying to deal with it, or they ignore it and it causes havoc.

 

It's also much better than DS-ing termies on their own because the LR prevents the passengers from being targeted directly. It also means the LR, on its second turn, can attempt to ram nearby enemy vehicles and tank shock squads.

 

Instead of having to take 2 turns (or maybe even 3 or 4) driving across the board to disgorge its occupants, the LR can arrive and on its next turn allow an assault. Sure, it's vulnerable to melta weapons and such, but so is a normal-deployment LR once it reaches the enemy lines.

Thats turn 3 at the earliest that you can charge out of it, assuming it does turn up on turn 2, and at least 450pts of your army not doing anything for a couple of turns - a lot of dead weight for the rest to carry for half a game. And thats without failing the first reserves roll.......

 

A normal LR deployed on the board can deliver its terminators up to 36" (12" move turn 1, 6" move turn 2, disembark 6", charge 12") away from its starting point for a turn 2 assault.

[Xenith]

I think things like this:

 

"I find the new Wraithguard pretty insane... S10 Ap2 24" with instakill/pen on a 6 or exchange it for a S4 AP2 flamer with the same special rule, WS4 BS4 I5 T6 fearless and if you include a seer they can get AS 2+ with a psychic power"

 

Will be bothering us a lot ... mainly the 6 = ID (no more FNP)

 

I doubt wraithcannons will go from 12" to 24". The D cannon is likely to be 24" barrage, S10, AP2. You may see those. 

 

BA are probably in a better position to fight Eldar due to our speed. As with anything, a fast rhino to position, 12" rhino move+disembark and 10 bolters rapidfiring will put any Eldar unit barring wraithguard to sleep.

 

It doesnt matter how much they can run away. If they want to shoot you, they'll be in bolter range.

[Demoulius]

AFAIK you cant disembark after moving a transport for 12 inches?

[Kem]

there is no unit in BA dex that carry bolters

[trukkster]

there is no unit in BA dex that carry bolters

erm...

Death company

tactical squads

fit in rhinos/razorbacks,

the angelus bolters on Sanguinary guard

devastators

bike squads

all carry bolters. That's all i can think of at the moment.

[Leonaides]

Dem-that's why I said 12 inches turn 1, 6 inches turn 2, but then you've got yr disembark move and the charge move

[shortysl]

there is no unit in BA dex that carry bolters

erm...

Death company

tactical squads

fit in rhinos/razorbacks,

the angelus bolters on Sanguinary guard

devastators

bike squads

all carry bolters. That's all i can think of at the moment.

He was joking; I'm a Dark Angel and even I can tell he's making reference to the idea that Blood Angels are an assault based army. Kind of like the "there are no Wolves on Fenris" comment........

[trukkster]

sarcasm doesn't always come across on forums.  Apologies.

[Xenith]

AFAIK you cant disembark after moving a transport for 12 inches?

Transport moves 6", you disembark 6". Although I can see how my: "12" rhino move+disembark" could be confused. It's 12" total. Gist is that bolters can reach out and touch things 36" away, and rapid fire at things 24" away.

there is no unit in BA dex that carry bolters

Then you're tactically crippling your chances of winning. Geddit? Tactically. Crippling. Tactically. Tactical.

....list of stuff that has bolters...

Note the whistley icon.

[BloodTzar]

So can we see advent of mech into BA ranks, shiny new tac termies or more beloved baal preds?

[Xenith]

So can we see advent of mech into BA ranks, shiny new tac termies or more beloved baal preds?

 

Baal preds will, and always have, ruin Eldars day.

 

The S5 AP4 is a killer: A single baal can decimate an entire aspect warrior squad caught in the open. AV13 also presents a unique problem for the eldar, as devoting a squad of dragons to AV13 is a waste, but there is very little else they can use to deal with it, dependant on a massive price drop on bright lances.

          The Eldar will be looking to flank your Rhino chassis and glance them to death with multiple shot S6 weaponry, while dragons go after AV14, terminators and Mephiston.

          Barring the new suncannon, Eldar also struggle with 2+ saves at range. I believe starcannons are staying at Heavy2, so you can expect to lost 1 termie per starcannon per turn (BS4, 2+ to wound, 5+ invun) which is small potatoes, really. Getting to within 12" exposes you to wraithguard and fire dragons.

[shortysl]

sarcasm doesn't always come across on forums. Apologies.

No apology needed mate, I've had plenty of situations myself where the true meaning of a comment hasn't been clear. Happens to the best of us!

[Drunken Angel]

BA armies will not determine Eldar builds, what worked for us in the past will work again. Think about the other armies that will significantly influence Eldar builds. Tau and Guard will probably be the biggest determinant of Eldar builds, Tau strip cover from Eldar and can outrange and outshoot them. Guard will similarily do horrendous long range damage to Eldar. Think what just one ion overcharged riptide with templates will do to footdar after markerlights do their job.

Our best answers will be the same as for 5th ed, found amongst our strongest builds, nothing changes. Baal HB Preds, Attack Bikes, Deepstrike Dreads like the furiouso with frag cannon and Stormravens. I am certain that GK with their psybolt everything will also upset Eldar.

If Eldar keep their psychic shutdown Farseers they will be more often used as a fast ally, especially by Tau.

[appiah4]

I find that spamming more Tactical Squads and Bike Squads with lots of plasma and Priests on Bikes is a good answer to everything in 6th edition.  They will work fine in this case as well.

[Demoulius]

Il wait for the dex to come out before deciding whatever or not to change any lists

But tbh they need a new one though. Old dex is one of the oldest ones (currently anyway) still around if im not mistaken. Highly overpriced vehicles (back then they were godlike though so the price was warranted), expensive upgrades that dont do anything anymore and alot of HQ models (like autarchs) lack good models so you would be tied to converting alot.

That said that new MC of theirs looks a little over the top were my eyes deceiving me when it was as tall as a 2 story building? My warhound titan is that tall

[Xenith]

That said that new MC of theirs looks a little over the top were my eyes deceiving me when it was as tall as a 2 story building? My warhound titan is that tall

Literally, not figuratively. It's just a wraithlord with more wounds and bigger guns.

[Morticon]

I think things like this:

 

"I find the new Wraithguard pretty insane... S10 Ap2 24" with instakill/pen on a 6 or exchange it for a S4 AP2 flamer with the same special rule, WS4 BS4 I5 T6 fearless and if you include a seer they can get AS 2+ with a psychic power"

 

Will be bothering us a lot ... mainly the 6 = ID (no more FNP)

 

 

Said this already, but, Mephy will completely NOM this guy.  They cant stop his powers anymore.  Most they can do is fortune the Knight and hope he passes all his saves.