Are Sanguinary Priests overpriced?

[teblin]

Hey all,

 

I'm new to the BA Codex and I've been playing BA for less than 2 weeks.

 

The SP's base cost, 50 points, seems rather a lot for what is essentially a normal Marine that confers FnP and Furious Charge to nearby squads. Sure, back when FnP was 4+ and FC gave +1 Ini as well as Str I could see the reason for it, but now in 6th Ed it seems rather expensive for what it is. Sure, FnP and FC are great buffs, but spending 50 points (and then 25 for a JP if you want one) seems a tad pricey.

 

Is it just me, or should the SP get a price reduction since FnP and FC got some pretty bad nerfing?

[Disruptor_fe404]

I'd agree, if it weren't for the bubble that he gives (which is to say, if he was just giving it to his squad).

 

Actually, I'd be fine with him dropping to 45 pts.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Definitely not!

Most units in the game pay 30 points as an upgrade to get feel no pain alone, on a character that does not get a 2+ look out sir. Independent character who can leave the unit and still grant them both Feel no Pain and Furious Charge is very, very nice tactically. Even well kited out, a sanguinary priest is still a good bang for the buck.

[Xenith]

No. The jump pack could be 15pts, but that's just wishlisting. The priest is fine as is.

[Demoulius]

Base of 50 points isent all to much imho. Specialy when you see how many wounds they (generally) prevent from going through its decent. I agree that 25 pts for the pack is abit much though. Are dark angel packs priced differently?

[JamesI]

I would like them to be a bit cheaper, but really is the jump pack cost that stinks.

[Squirrelloid]

FnP actually got better, because while its now only 5+, it now applies to stuff which denies an armor save.  In 5th, power weapons and plasma weapons didn't allow FnP saves.  (Looking back, in 4th plasma did but power weapons didn't, and I recall that being true in 3rd as well, so FnP applies to more now than it ever did in the past).

[Demoulius]

FnP applied to close combat attacks that denied armour saves but not shooting ones hence you did get it against plasma :)

 

You generally get the FnP against more things now but against small arms fire and normal close combat attacks (say from a mob of orks) the save got worse.

 

For terminators and bikers the save is even more insanely good now. For bikers only S10 attacks (or attacks with the ID rule) deny FnP. When they move they get a cover save as well. Terminators get FnP against power weapon attacks now (granted they dont cause ID) and the increase to their lifespan is pretty terrifying.

 

Like we all know though the FnP and FC come from the priest itself. Hes a 1 wound independent character so not exactly impossible to kill. When were done tooling them up the points tend to add up... Maybe less points for some of the wargear. I think 50 points base costs is fair. Not to much not to little.

[Deamons Redeemer]

It is not much, If you take a mega armor NOB ork THE cost barebones is About 40 pts so for a spec char it is not that overpriced

[knife&fork]

Hey all,

 

I'm new to the BA Codex and I've been playing BA for less than 2 weeks.

 

The SP's base cost, 50 points, seems rather a lot for what is essentially a normal Marine that confers FnP and Furious Charge to nearby squads. SUre, back when FnP was 4+ and FC gave +1 Ini as well as Str I could see the reason for it, but now in 6th Ed it seems rather expensive for what it is. Sure, FnP and FC are great buffs, but spending 50 points (and then 25 for a JP if you want one) seems a tad pricey.

 

Is it just me, or should the SP get a price reduction since FnP and FC got some pretty bad nerfing?

 

Yes, sanguinary priests are definitely overpriced, the upgrades in particular. What's worse is that they take up an elite slot. 

 

IMHO the priests are one of the worst things in the codex.

Not because they suck that much, it's because they seem good at first! They trick players into spending way too many points on suboptimal units and then playing them in a less flexible manner to maximize the buff.

 

We would see a lot a more successful BA players if people stopped thinking of things like priests and assault squads as a 'given'. It's understandable since they are one of the defining traits of BA, but they are also holding the community back in terms of results.

 

This is made worse by (non BA) veteran players often giving advice to new players when starting out. I see lots of awful advice all over the place by veteran players who have very little experience with BA themselves.

[Xenith]

This is made worse by (non BA) veteran players often giving advice to new players when starting out. I see lots of awful advice all over the place by veteran players who have very little experience with BA themselves.

 

Dude, collate the bad advice you've seen into a new post: ":cuss BA Know it all's say". Would be good to hear some tactical rumblings.

 

People are slowly coming around from their 4th ed PDF armies and the internet personalities that espoused their way of playing as the best way to play BA. 

 

What the BA have are a lot of tools (priests, DoA, fast tanks, scoring assault marines), and you need to use the right tool at the right time to get results.

 

Like using a screwdriver when you need a hammer: Don't. Yes, it will probably result in bloodshed, but not in a helpful manner.

[Jorre]

 

Hey all,

 

I'm new to the BA Codex and I've been playing BA for less than 2 weeks.

 

The SP's base cost, 50 points, seems rather a lot for what is essentially a normal Marine that confers FnP and Furious Charge to nearby squads. SUre, back when FnP was 4+ and FC gave +1 Ini as well as Str I could see the reason for it, but now in 6th Ed it seems rather expensive for what it is. Sure, FnP and FC are great buffs, but spending 50 points (and then 25 for a JP if you want one) seems a tad pricey.

 

Is it just me, or should the SP get a price reduction since FnP and FC got some pretty bad nerfing?

 

Yes, sanguinary priests are definitely overpriced, the upgrades in particular. What's worse is that they take up an elite slot. 

 

IMHO the priests are one of the worst things in the codex.

Not because they suck that much, it's because they seem good at first! They trick players into spending way too many points on suboptimal units and then playing them in a less flexible manner to maximize the buff.

 

We would see a lot a more successful BA players if people stopped thinking of things like priests and assault squads as a 'given'. It's understandable since they are one of the defining traits of BA, but they are also holding the community back in terms of results.

 

This is made worse by (non BA) veteran players often giving advice to new players when starting out. I see lots of awful advice all over the place by veteran players who have very little experience with BA themselves.

Whole heartedly agree with this. Priest can encourage a playstyle that is often not optimal! They aint a bad choice, but the point sink can make list building difficult especially when we are already more expensive than all the other popular dex atm.

 

I have had a lot of success recently not using a standard priest at all. If they only cost 60 points and came with a jump pack they would be a great deal. 75 points though and an extra 15 for a power weapon with only 1 wound!! No thanks!

 

That said Corbulo is an absolute steal! Much better of taking him even though he doesnt have a jump pack.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I don't know about overcosted, but its that one wound that's just killer. I'd take a slight points increase for that extra wound. They're too easy to pick off for my liking. Doesn't stop me from running one though, occasionally two. The sad fact is that without the initiative buff from furious charge I don't consider them to give -quite- enough bang for their points any more. And in kill point games they're a liability. The points cost is fine, maybe a little on the steep side, but not more than I'd be willing to pay for the effect; the problems are the upgrade costs, but more importantly the fact that he dies easily and takes up a valuable Elites slot, and we don't have many of them to mess around with.

[Ushtarador]

I really like to play 2x10 ASM as a core of my army, and for me the priest is invaluable in there. However, I also started leaving him out more and more for other armies, where there are less bodies that are more spread out.

Still, I'd say 50 points base is very reasonable for the bubble he confers, I just wish his jump pack were cheaper :/

[Unbreakable]

As others have said, 50 points is pretty good for what he brings but adding a jump pack and power weapon really adds up. When ever I use one I always take a jump pack and power axe. I would rather have a power weapon on a priest with +1 WS and a 2+ look out sir then I would on a sergeant if I had to pick between the two.

[Judaz]

I agree, to pay 75pts for a 1W character with JP and no special weapon is just too much. Most of the times when I'm building an army I include a couple of priests, but when I'm done with the list they have somehow been removed and replaced with something shooty. The assault squads are there mostly as a distraction anyways...

 

I haven't played the new Tau yet, and the new Eldar seems quite dangerous aswell.  Been thinking of trying out sang priests with my Devs to make them survive a bit longer. Then they are just 50pts, no upgrades. 50 pts to give FnP to two squads of Devastators is kinda cheap. 

[Demoulius]

The priest is a unit that needs synergy with a few squads to be worth his price. If you just stick him in a posistion where only 1 squad benefits from the bubble then yes, hes overpriced. If you have 2 or more squads benefit from it however hes worth his weight (well more tbh, plastic models dont weight all that much ) in gold!

Or have one accompany bikers/assault termies and see your opponent rage as he cant get rid off them ^_^ ah, my humble priest. How you allow me to troll my regular opponents

[teblin]

Aren't you putting a little too much faith in what is only a 5+ save? I mean, it's nice and all to have it, but the odds aren't in your favour.

[Baba Lem]

Every third roll passes. Which can make a difference. Furious Charge is nice, too. And keep in mind, the FnP rolls are taken after armour and cover. I've been running mine with AXE and JP, which can help crack a tough target with another couple of attacks. I like to run him with twenty Assault Marines as the core. They're flexible, fast and resilient.

[SamaNagol]

They used to be, when FC was better and FnP was more effective against massed high strength/weak AP shots. Now they are too expensive for the benefits they bring. It is the core mechanic change from 5th to 6th that has made them over priced.

 

That said I would always put one in a squad with 2+ armour like terminators or Sanguinary Guard.

 

Spending 75-100pts on a Priest to buff assault marines in 6th is an abject waste

[Squirrelloid]

Aren't you putting a little too much faith in what is only a 5+ save? I mean, it's nice and all to have it, but the odds aren't in your favour.

 

33% fewer models die than otherwise would against most attacks.  That's pretty huge for survivability.

[knife&fork]

 

Aren't you putting a little too much faith in what is only a 5+ save? I mean, it's nice and all to have it, but the odds aren't in your favour.

 

33% fewer models die than otherwise would against most attacks.  That's pretty huge for survivability.

 

But that's not exactly good, specially not for single wound models. We don't ignore 33% of wounds, It's a pass/fail roll that you fail more often than not.

[moric]

I run my list as follows

4*10 man assault squads

3*sang. priests

3*stormravens

and a captain

 

I must say that after playing extensively with the new Tau i still cannot beat them (my opponents play 3 fighters,3 riptides and 3 skyrays) and to be honest i feel that the priests are a bit overpriced (i run them with jp,power sword).

So i agree with knife&fork that the priest entry in the codex is a trap they do seem good at start but they are not really that important and against the new Tau feel no pain has no value they shoot so much that it wont make a difference.

 

Now i am gathering the models to play a Cpt Tycho drop pod list i have in mind maybe it'll fare better but really the new Tau are impossible.

[Memento Of Prospero]

They aren't overpriced, you just run way too many!

[Squirrelloid]

 

 

Aren't you putting a little too much faith in what is only a 5+ save? I mean, it's nice and all to have it, but the odds aren't in your favour.

 

33% fewer models die than otherwise would against most attacks.  That's pretty huge for survivability.

 

But that's not exactly good, specially not for single wound models. We don't ignore 33% of wounds, It's a pass/fail roll that you fail more often than not.

 

Don't take the wounds on the SP?  That 33% adds up over time.