Pitfalls in the Blood Angels Codex

[Leonaides]

I don't think anyone has complained about the baal predator yet...

[Taranis]

No complaints, except we only can field 3.

Don't worry, I'll tone the humor down, I just couldn't help it.

[Leonaides]

Why tone it down, humor is an artform and the ba's appreciate art .

[Meatcaber]

I don't think anyone has complained about the baal predator yet...

 

I have a complaint about my Baal. Against my regular opponent (DA, usually Ravenwing/Deathwing, but also lots of green, occasionally) my Baal just never seems to do anything except be a minor distraction for him for a turn or two, regardless of whether I outflank or not. The TLAC & HB sponsons just doesn't seem effective against MEQ and TEQ. I think, in 3 or 4 games, it has killed 2 landspeeders (in separate games) and a bike. That's it. 

 

The only other time I used it was versus the new Tau - it came in on the backfield, fired all it's guns at the rear armour of a tank, failed to nuke it, then got blown up itself in his turn... Not impressed with the Baal as of yet. 

[I am Legion]

The Baal predator is an incredible tank. Yes its pricy but it always does damage and if used with one or two more, it usually lives to the end of the game for me.

[Demoulius]

I find my Baal either performs incredibly well or very poorly. Against MEQ it tends to either need to force lots of saves (and with 3+ saves the chance of killing stuff is pretty low) or rely on rending hits. It excells at light vehicle (or sides of marine vehicles) hunting though. All those S5 and S6 shots tend to rip right through them ^_^

[Jolemai]

My 2p worth:

 

1) Priests.

It's so easy to overspend on these. As a general rule you only really need one per 1000 points, but this will always depend on the list you make.

2) Unsupported themed lists.

Our Codex allows us many ways to play and it is easy to go over the top with picking too many themed units. By all means have a central theme but ensure that they are suitably supported by the excellent choices we have (Baals, Stormravens, Attack Bikes, etc)

3) MSU.

While this also falls into my earlier point, it should be noted that singular MSUs can not and should not be relied on to do anything. They need support and they need to go in en mass, but should never be overlooked as they are one of the best value for money options we have.

4)Upgrades.

Don't upgrade willy nilly. Have a firm idea of what you want you units to do and upgrade them accordingly and, hopefully, with some symbiosis with the rest of your force. This is especially important with units that are less-cost effective (i.e. Captain).

[Chaplain Admetus]

Jolemai, how does one have a single MSU? The 'M' stands for 'Multiple'... just a bit confused. I've actually found that the best success I've had with my BA in 6th edition has been playing MSU style - splitting things down into combat squads and forcing my opponent to deal with threat density (high number of scoring units can be tough for some to deal with). 

[BAHERSH]

I agree with most of this and will add:

 

HQ's: Mephiston is one of the only characters worth his price. JP Librarians are a pretty fantastic choice as well (cheap, and can fufill a LOT of support roles). Other special characters I would consider are Corbullo (although he is Elite) if I didn't need Jump Pack Sang Priests, and Captain Tycho is pretty deadly with an AP 2 weapon that strikes at initiative. The rest are garbage IMO.

 

Elites: I recommend 1 - 2 Sang Priests for most armies, but the general selection is not great. Sternguards are underrated, and our dreads can be okay. A lot of people really like TH/ SS termies, but I'm not a huge fan, although I see the appeal.

 

Troops: Get plenty of AM's. As noted above, don't deepstrike everyone, but a 2 x meltagun combat squad (don't forget to throw a Krak!) or 2 can be extremely effective. I like jump pack Death Company, but they will never see a competitive list (drop pod + bolters would be the only way I'd seriously field them). Scouts are useful for objective purposes.

 

Fast Attack: IMO, this is the strongest portion of the codex. Baals, Attack Bikes, and Land Speeders. You cannot go wrong maxing out any of these selections, and I try to do this first with most lists.

 

Heavy Support: Stormravens are pretty fantastic, but keep them to air support - they kinda fail as an assault vehicle. An AV 12, 230 pt transport is not a good investment for most purposes. Nothing else in Heavy Support really jumps out at me, although I feel Vindicators are a bit underrated. Since they are fast vehicles, they can move and fire, and really hit anything and everything pretty hard.

 

My top 5 units: Mephiston, Librarians, Sang Priests, Attack Bikes and Stormravens (of course AM's are a must)

My bottom 5 units: Chaplains, Sanguinary Guard, Techmarines, Gabriel Seth, Scout Bikers

 

Feel free to disagree, this is just my opinion.

 

Finally, I would like to add that deployment can make or break the game for BA's. Remember that mobility is your best ally, and that you don't have to attack the entire enemy force from the start. Instead, focus down what you must to survive, and remember that if you plan accordingly, you may be able to stay out of range of a lot of the enemy's weapons if you stick to one side of the board. If you try to assault all fronts, you numbers will likely be too thin. 

[Midnightmare]

Not too sure on plenty of Assault Marines, I find them very lacklustre in the new addition, its just a shame I have so many because I love using them! I am swapping to Tacs more often, but even these guys are overcosted in our codex. I think pretty much the biggest pitfall in our codex is using too many of our expensive troops, I should ally in some cheapies but I can't bring myself to do it yet lol thus I am pretty handicapped at the minute. I am trying to focus on the good stuff in our codex (Furioso's, Baals, Meph etc) and tring to build a list round them but suffering with the price of our troops.

 

To some up our codex at the minute, imho - few HQ options worthwhile, expensive troops, but we have a strong Elite and Fast Attack, and a pretty decent Heavy Support

[Jolemai]

Jolemai, how does one have a single MSU? The 'M' stands for 'Multiple'... just a bit confused. I've actually found that the best success I've had with my BA in 6th edition has been playing MSU style - splitting things down into combat squads and forcing my opponent to deal with threat density (high number of scoring units can be tough for some to deal with).

I was referring to a singular five man squad and went on to say that you should have enough of them to make them count, which is essentially what you said

[Chaplain Admetus]

Jolemai, how does one have a single MSU? The 'M' stands for 'Multiple'... just a bit confused. I've actually found that the best success I've had with my BA in 6th edition has been playing MSU style - splitting things down into combat squads and forcing my opponent to deal with threat density (high number of scoring units can be tough for some to deal with).

I was referring to a singular five man squad and went on to say that you should have enough of them to make them count, which is essentially what you said

Gotcha :). I generally run a 5 man devastator squad, but any other squad is max size. Unlike everything else, devastators should probably be kept low as they still operate at full efficiency. Maybe one or two extra bodies if there are spare points, but its one of the only squads in the book that can operate at the same level of efficiency with both 5 and 10 members of the squad.

[BAHERSH]

Not too sure on plenty of Assault Marines, I find them very lacklustre in the new addition, its just a shame I have so many because I love using them! I am swapping to Tacs more often, but even these guys are overcosted in our codex. I think pretty much the biggest pitfall in our codex is using too many of our expensive troops

 

I don't think they're that bad. 2 x special weapons, JP's, DoA, and Combat Squadding make them pretty useful units. Sure they took a hit in CC, but I think they are still great.

 

With mobility, durability, and combat squads, they are great for capturing objectives. The 2x meltagun + krak is great for vehicle hunting, and 2x flamers + powersword will still wreck light infantry. Just be carful what you send them up against.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I'm going to do a tactica in the near future on MSU Blood Angels - I've found it can work quite well but I need more testing to see if its just a flash in the pan.

[Demoulius]

Out of curiosity what does MSU stand for?

[Meatcaber]

Many Small Units, I believe. 

[Jolemai]

Many Small Units, I believe.

Correct. Alternatively definitions are "Multiple Small Units" and it refers to five man squads in the form of Razorspam.

[Chaplain Admetus]

 

Many Small Units, I believe.

Correct. Alternatively definitions are "Multiple Small Units" and it refers to five man squads in the form of Razorspam.

Not strictly razorspam :P. All razorspam is MSU, but not all MSU armies are Razorspam. 

[Quixus]

Would Nipplewing also qualify as MSU?

[CaptainHelion]

I'm not sure it would. Nipplewing doesn't really provide the saturation of units hat MSU tends to connote. 

[tomjoad]

I have been seriously disappointed by both the killy-ness and survivability of JAS. They are only so-so in combat, even when they have FC, and bolt pistols never really kill anything during shooting. If we could put a special weapon in a 5 man tac squad, I would completely abandon assault marines. However, it is still the cheapest way to get melta guns where you need them, and the free drop pod is helping me field an odd number of them.

 

Anyway, I may have skipped a few posts in this thread, so this may have been mentioned, but the number one trap is the transport capacity of the Storm Raven. That thing is good, not great, as all-around air superiority, but it is an awful troop transport. Almost any opponent, at this point, should be swatting it out of the air and pulping whatever chumps are stuck inside it (including a dreadnought, in case you think that's better. S10 AP1 on rear armor kills anything).

[CitadelArmyGuy]

CitadelArmyGuy's List of DO NOTs for BA:

• Never take Sanguinor, Seth or Generic Captains.
• Never take the BA Librarian Epistolary upgrade.
• Never take Dreadnoughts without DropPods.
• Never upgrade Scouts to take CamoCloaks bc then they are the same price as Tactical Marines and there is too much Ignores Cover these days anyway.
• Never upgrade Sanguinary Guard with DeathMasks.
• Never pay for a Plasma Pistol.
• Never take the Baal Flamestorm Cannon. Expensive Suicide Unit for small payoff.
• Never upgrade Vanguard Veterans other than meltabombs.
• Never upgrade Death Company more than 50%. Meaning if you take 10 for 200pts, then adding more than 100 pts in upgrades (DropPod, Weaps, JumpPacks included)
• Never take different weapons in a Devastator squad.
• Never take full Lascannons Predator (BA version at least). Wastes the BA mobility advantage.
• Never take TLLC with HB Sponson Predator. The loadout is confused and bad at either job.
• Never take Vindicator SiegeShield. DozerBlade is cheaper and plenty adequate.

[Leksington]

Would Nipplewing also qualify as MSU?

 

No.  MSU is about efficiency rather than technically having multiple small units.  

 

MSU philosophy In an oversimplified nutshell:

-You are trying to make your opponent waste shots/attacks via overkill, while you are trying to reduce your own over-killing of the enemy.  

-You are trying to cause point mismatches in engagements on the table (you want his 500 point unit spending its turns shooting at your 100 point units).  Essentially causing your opponent to inefficiently utilize their points on the table.

 

Nipple Wing is not good MSU because it does that second part badly.  Since it is an expensive unit, your opponent is less likely to be using too many points to kill them, and you are more likely to be using too many points to kill cheaper enemy units.  Even with regards to making your opponent waste attacks/shot, SG are so expensive per model that they are an efficient target, even when you are over-killing them.