Land Raiders - do they have a place in your army?

[teblin]

As the title suggests.

 

Just interested in the general opinion of BA players on Land Raiders and their variants.

 

Is their cost justified? How many do you like to use? Are they better or worse in 6th edition?

 

 

[retrovertigo]

I use a Crusader exclusively for something for my DC to charge out of. In my 2000pt list it has a pretty much guaranteed place as I find to be extremely effective against the armies I face at my local club, and less of a risk to load with expensive troops than a Stormraven (that I tend to use as a dreadnought dropping gunship). 

[Sanguis militis]

In 1500 and over I always include at least one land raider and almost always a crusader or redeemer, depending on who I'm facing. A tip that I can give is to not use it to go toe to toe with other armies toughest tanks, use it either for scare tactics or more importantly a fairly safe transport for a very important and heavy hitting squad. I usually load mine with assault terminators + reclusiarch/librarian or a large death company with reclusiarch. Fact that its an assault vehicle make it my favorite combat transport to ensure you get off the charge.

 

I love the redeemer to unload a squad that wants to destroy a unit that is being screened by troops in front of it. My tactic is to use either a raven, squad of dual heavy bolter speeders, or a heavy bolter dev squad to soften up whatever blob of troops are preventing assault directly Into your target as you run up the land raider as close to the blob as you can. The dual flamers on it always, for me, clear out a large enough path (the assault cannon is great for this too) so my unit can charge right out the front and hammer away at their real target. The av 14 helps ensure that it will survive another round and begging going around harassing more of my opponents army.

 

I usually face tyranids and this strategy works wonder to remove something big and nasty, works great against other armies as well. I most recently used this tactic to take out my opponents baneblade.

 

Biggest problem with land raider is losing them before they can deliver their cargo safely.. As a 250 point transport is a huge points sink. Especially in 6th I've found myself using 2-3 storm ravens with much more success but a land raider will always serve as our best fire magnet and safest transport for terminators.

[BAHERSH]

I think it depends on the list. I don't use LR's, because I don't run mech. If I do include any armor, it's a pair of Stormraven Gunships, that are purely air support. If you need a transport for DC, I think it's the best option - although drop pods are a cheaper option, but require a much different DC role.

 

Landraiders probably got better in 6th, since I feel like people are moving away from mech armies and melta weapons in favor of MC's and plasma. They are not affected by the no assault after disembark rule, and since they have a lot of hull points/ 14 armor, I don't think they can easily be glanced to death.

 

Again, I don't like the shoe boxes, both aesthetically and they don't fit my Jumper/ Biker scheme very well. But if you have a few pieces of armor and do like the models, I think it'd be appropriate to field one. I'd be more skeptical of taking 2 - the second will likely be transporting terminators, and that's a LOT of points for a suboptimal amount of firepower and 2 CC units. For DC it makes sense, but I don't know if there are really any other units I'd justify the LR for.

 

Cheers

[Squirrelloid]

I run a full mech list and currently use 2 LRRs in 2k points.  I think the LRR is pretty much the optimal LR configuration for just about any use: it's cheaper, it has great weapons, and it has capacity 12.

 

The change in meta cited by Bahersh (less melta), and the change in vehicle damage rules both strongly favor LR survival and *functionality*.  I no longer feel compelled to slap extra-armor on them.

 

I think LRs remain more effective in a full mech list.  I'm currently running 2 rhinos and a total of 4 predators with them.

[Deamons Redeemer]

Ok first of all,

do we Alone have the DS LR or do other astartes have them to? And who uses them this way?

[Xenith]

As long as it's not the only armour in your force. Pair them with baals and las/auto preds to get the most out of them.

 

Ok first of all,
do we Alone have the DS LR or do other astartes have them to? And who uses them this way?

 

Just us, and never do it. Apart from for funsies.

[teblin]

What if you used their deep strike ability to keep them in reserve for the first turn so they can't be shot at, then bring them down on your side of the table?

[Squirrelloid]

LRs work best when advancing with other armor.  You want that firepower on the table, and you want to be delivering troops on a predictable timescale.  Reserves makes that timescale hard to predict, if nothing else.  (Also, deepstriking something the size of a LR... that gives me chills thinking of the mishap probabilities).

[tomjoad]

The entire point of a Land Raider is that it's AV14 and immune to most shooting. If you think it's still too fragile to start on the table, then how on earth can you justify paying 250 points for one? I'm not a LR fan at all, but being precious with them seems like the worst thing you could do with them.

[teblin]

Well, currently I only have one, any my Tau opponent likes to field a Hammerhead. If there's a chance I can use my Las Devs to take it out on the first turn it could save me a lot of trouble.

[Deamons Redeemer]

And what kit do you guys take ? Hurricane, redeemer, etc ??

 

Crusader instead of hurricane ;) whoops hehe

[teblin]

I got a Crusader for BT fluff reasons, but now it's repainted and I appreciate its large transport capacity.

[Squirrelloid]

LRR with 'free' multi-melta, since its 10 pts less than other LRs otherwise.  Never had a need for more than 12 transport capacity.

[Khorneeq]

I'm running Redeemer - great for fighting MEQ.

Lately (during to changes in combat squad rule) I've been transporting assult squad inside with two IC which gives the ability to charge up to for units in single turn.

When I'll be buying second one I'll get Phobos for DC (no problem with need to get 10 models for additional weapons) and twin Lascannons will help with everything.

[Demoulius]

Ive run my phobos land raider a few times but only in 2000 or 2000+ games. And considering I mainly play 1500 pts games that means I dont play it all to regulary

[Remtek]

They definetly received a buff in 6th edition.

 

Many players choosing plasma over melta it makes them more durable.

They dont get stunned on glancing hits now, so it's easyer to move them across the table.

Shield of Sanguinious can give them cover in round one and forward. Have you libby inside or running behind with a JP and ASM squad. 

You can premeasure against melta groups. Say you move 19" from a melta units in a rhino he can only do 6"+6" disembark so he will not get 2x6 pen.

You can move 30 inches in round 1 from table edge 12+12+6. This means a guaranteed assault in round 2. round 2 6"+6"+2d6.

 

Also a indirect buff to LR is the DC buff. We have a reliable unit to carry in LR. BA termies are kinda expensive. Put 10 boltgun DC and a chaplain inside and you will do an avreage of over 5 unsaved wounds to a TH/SS squad before they can strike back, or 13 unsaved wounds to a meq (this is without power weapons).

 

The biggest downside is its somewhat high variance, if your LR gets destroyed without doing much you are pretty far behind. 

[kdruthless]

For me, they don't. They are a pretty massive points sink, attracts almost every melta and heavy weapon on the board and my particular style of play seems to favour massed infantry charges over tank rushes.

Having said that, a 1000pt expansion consists of a LR crusader carrying Gabriel Seth, A term Libby, and ten vanguard with power weapons. So there are always exceptions to the rule

[teblin]

How does the 30 inches in round 1 work? 12 inches cruising speed, and what are the other two? I thought flat out was only 6.

[kdruthless]

I think its because all BA vehicles are fast, but please don't hit me if im wrong about that

[Remtek]

How does the 30 inches in round 1 work? 12 inches cruising speed, and what are the other two? I thought flat out was only 6.

You deploy 12 inches from table edge. 12"+12"+6, though the last 6 in shooting phase should most often be used for shooting. (POTMS)

 

 

I think its because all BA vehicles are fast, but please don't hit me if im wrong about that

 

LR are not fast for BA. 

[kdruthless]

Bugger. Oh well, it was nice to feel that I knew what I was talking about for a moment there :)

[Remtek]

Bugger. Oh well, it was nice to feel that I knew what I was talking about for a moment there

We can deepstrike them :D Although not a good idea, definetly style points!

[teblin]

http://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/5/50/If_The_Rumours_Were_True.jpg/600px-If_The_Rumours_Were_True.jpg

[dswanick]

I'm firmly of the opinion that Land Raiders are over-points for what you get.  The Land Raider tries to be a Medium Battle Tank and an Assault Transport at the same time.  Unfortunately, these roles are not complimentary.  Compare the 250pt Land Raider vs. a 175pt combination of Predator and Rhino.

 

Comparisons:

- each choice takes up one Heavy Support Slot (plus a Troops slot for the embarked unit)

- both have a Transport Capacity of 10 models.

- both can target multiple units (although the Land Raider is slightly more flexible in what weapons may be targeted at each unit)

 

The Land Raider excels at:

- AV14 on all facings (although AV13 and a Cover Save for AV11 can arguably compare with this given the smaller models)

- the embarked unit can assault when disembarking

- can embark TDA

 

The Predator/Rhino combo excels at:

- more firepower (2X Lascannons, 1X Autocannon, 3X Stormbolters vs 2X Lascannons, 1X Heavy Bolter)

- more flexibility (they can stay together for mutual benefit and divide their force as needed)

- more durable (with 6 Hull Points vs 4 Hull Points, and 2X turns of Smoke)

- more mobility (Immobilized results are less relevant to this combo, the Predator doesn't need to move to shoot and the Rhino can Repair)

- Fire Points