Friz 80 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I am sorry if there is another thread for this if there is I could not find it. I am relatively new, however I seem to struggle with the tau especially now , and eldar . Eldar when well played I believe is one of the hardest army's to beat. They have an answer for everything, but they are un forgiving if their general makes one mistake they can easily fold . Tau for obvious reasons their so shooty it's crazy especially now. With all the advice I have received from all my fellow SW players I am anxious to put a hurting on them real soon. When I first played the game ever I played against necrons now I did not fully grasp the game and basically played with what I had and got destroyed. I have observed the necron generals using abilitys that basically blind you and then just crush their enemy's . I am not sure what it's called but it is devistating. I played a game today against nids and destroyed them in 2 turns if he did not have that one model spitting out troops every turn it would have ended quicker. I am looking forward to reading what you guys have to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Michael Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 CSM, flying Helchickens really suck in my meta right now. Storm Eagles cost to much in game (300pts), the ADL works but I hate that it takes points away from my wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friz 80 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 This is true , I have seen these hellchickes being used a lot at our store just flyers in general. what makes the chaos ones so deadly I have not faced one yet , but it's a matter of time before I do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Vector Strike with a template weapon that's AP 3. Kill it & kill it quick. And the Army I struggle with most is our local tread head's Armoured Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friz 80 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Thanks for the info. We only have one guard player but he does seem to rack up the wins. I do not look forward to facing any guard army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 IG and CSM. When they ally, it sucks for me. Now I have to deal with not just a vendetta, but a helldrake as well?! Good thing I have those handy Flakk missiles. Oh wait, GW has little time for errating us into having an answer for flyers, or runic weapons, or SotH and runic armour. Sorry, that got a bit off topic. Battlecannons, chemcannons, and helldrakes, oh Russ do I hate them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Tau + Sisters is also another really annoying combo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3383993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I haven't played that many armies in 6:ed yet but yes the hellturkeys are a pain to deal with. To expand what they do for you Fritz they have a str 6 ap 3 flamer so they ignore cover. This they can place within 12"(it can stretch beyond that though just the sdtart has to be within 12) with the only restriction being the thinner part has to be closer to turkey. This shot can always be shot 260 degrees negating the drawbacks of every other flier that can only shoot mostly straight ahead. And then it also has vector strike and armor 12 and can get hullpoints back every round. That flamer can close enough to wipe out a unit per turn or desmiate it badly and for a rather low point cost. Just playing chaos now you have to change your army to not have any power armor units outside of vehicles or in close combat(if you can get there in time). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Long Fangs on upper levels of ruins. No matter what Chaos players think the rules for using a template will not allow a Heldrake to use the Baleflamer on them as they are NOT one of the units allowed to place the template on any level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friz 80 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Thanks guys for the info. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Long Fangs on upper levels of ruins. No matter what Chaos players think the rules for using a template will not allow a Heldrake to use the Baleflamer on them as they are NOT one of the units allowed to place the template on any level. Oh could you please let me know where this says? I know my friend and I will need proof of this sicne this is something we must have missed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Long Fangs on upper levels of ruins. No matter what Chaos players think the rules for using a template will not allow a Heldrake to use the Baleflamer on them as they are NOT one of the units allowed to place the template on any level. Oh could you please let me know where this says? I know my friend and I will need proof of this sicne this is something we must have missed. It is in the ruins section of the BRB where it explains firing blast, barrage, and template weapons in ruins. There is a specific list of unit types that are allowed to fire on any level of a set of ruins, and flyers are not on that list. The only way flyers can hit any level of a ruin with a template is if they hover at which time they are treated as a skimmer. Skimmers are one of the units on that list of unit types allowed to target all levels of a ruin with template weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorDaley Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Unless that ruin is five levels in height; sadly the helldrake can target models. The BA forum had fairly involved thread about how to deal with the helldrake. I don't have time to find it, but it had all sorts of really good experience/ideas on the helldrake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenric Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Long Fangs on upper levels of ruins. No matter what Chaos players think the rules for using a template will not allow a Heldrake to use the Baleflamer on them as they are NOT one of the units allowed to place the template on any level. Oh could you please let me know where this says? I know my friend and I will need proof of this sicne this is something we must have missed. It is in the ruins section of the BRB where it explains firing blast, barrage, and template weapons in ruins. There is a specific list of unit types that are allowed to fire on any level of a set of ruins, and flyers are not on that list. The only way flyers can hit any level of a ruin with a template is if they hover at which time they are treated as a skimmer. Skimmers are one of the units on that list of unit types allowed to target all levels of a ruin with template weapons. Thaks alot that makes it alot easier for my long fangs to survive. Otherwise he will just go straight in flame them to death in one round. We usually use ruins so atleast there are soem protection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Unless that ruin is five levels in height; sadly the helldrake can target models. The BA forum had fairly involved thread about how to deal with the helldrake. I don't have time to find it, but it had all sorts of really good experience/ideas on the helldrake. Care to actually quote the rules that supports that opinion? Flyers are NOT on the list of models that are able to target any level of a ruin. That list is specific and flyers is not on it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roma Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hmm hopefully this is true. Certainly would help. Then you could hide your backrow, and keep as many forward units engaded in CC as possible to avoid them getting shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm interested What level are you assuming flyers are on BR as model not on that list can only affect the level they are on -+1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayorDaley Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 GW feels the drake is at level 3, therefore lvls 1 & 5 would be untargetable. @ramses I quoted that exact patagragh to the skull of thrones judge... the answer I got was the 5 lvl junk. It is what it it. All that really matters is how your gaming groups interpretation of that paragragh. For the record, I agree wholeheartedly with your interpretation. That's what makes sense to me, but ask chaos players what they think! Lol I'm quite sure you know the answer you will get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 The issue is twofold, 1. The flyer has no designation as to what level it flies at. 2. Rules exist that specifically list what unit types are able to fire a template weapon in all levels, the flyer is not one of them. Now using the second point above, you absolutely cannot assume that a flyer has access to all levels because a rule exists that specifically lists the unit types allowed to use all levels. Therefore due to the first point, you will have to agree with your opponent on which level the flyer is then based at and then still play according to the template rule which means if you and your opponent agree that the model is at ground level, you can flame the ground level plus one up. If you agree that the flyer is based on the top floor, he gets to flame that floor plus one down. The flyer is perfectly capable of choosing to flame any floor if they choose to hover. By hovering they are treated as a skimmer which is one of the unit types allowed to use a template on any level of a ruin. The fact that Chaos players want to insist on having access to all levels of a ruin with a template weapon when flyers are specifically not one of the units listed is completely against the RAW. The issue with the flyer not having a defined level to determine what levels of a ruin it can use a template is a different issue altogether that due to being undefined needs to be agreed upon between opponents. However, because it is not one of the listed units allowed to use a template on all levels, it must be defined either on top or bottom. It can never be allowed to template all levels as that is strictly against the RAW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roma Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I think assuming it as at top level of the ruin it is targeting would be fair. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Tyranids, regardless of what army I am using or how skilled my opponent has been at the time, have always been a particular challenge for me. Not unbeatable by any means, but typically more stressful of a game than any other army I'm used to playing against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I think assuming it as at top level of the ruin it is targeting would be fair. The you would be unable to target the ground in a 3 story set of ruins. There are pros and cons to whatever choice you make due to there being no defined level for the flyers. And as I mentioned, that is an agreement that you and your opponent would have to come to terms with in which his opinion would be just as valid as your own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Tyranids, regardless of what army I am using or how skilled my opponent has been at the time, have always been a particular challenge for me. Not unbeatable by any means, but typically more stressful of a game than any other army I'm used to playing against. I feel every battle against tyranids is suspenseful. It always feels epic. Tons of swarms and huge beasts. Its easy to feel overwhelmed with targets. I hate Trygons, but my Thunderwolf Lord has proved to be a brick wall against it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friz 80 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 What do you arm your thunder wolf lord with? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Wolf claw, storm shield, Runic Armour, Saga of the Bear, and a wolf-tooth necklace if I have the points. He is a beast, an expensive beast, but a beast non the less. For all comers, the old WC/PF set up is nice. (Invaluable vs CSM) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276235-what-army-do-you-struggle-with-the-most/#findComment-3384819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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