Sanguis militis Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 So I was taking with a few friends of mine in my local gaming community and we've decided to start a campaign taking place after the current year in the 40k universe. I'm responsible for making the back story for the blood angels since I'm the only one who plays them (actually I'm one of the only marine players period). So I wanted to run what I have so far by you guys and see what you think. I'm typing the on my phone so I can't make it too long.. But in a nutshell after the successor chapters donated geneseed and recruits to help bolster the reduced blood angel ranks the first chapter went on a massive recruiting mission to not just bring their numbers back to 1000, but to increase them much much further. Each successor chapter also went on to do the same with even the flesh tearers able to bring their numbers over 1000 after only 80~ years. In addition to these new numbers in the "legion", Dante and his council if other chapter masters have acquired a pretty impressive fleet of warships for each chapter with the help of the adeptus mechanics enclaves fulfilling 10000 year old debts they owed to sanguinius himself. Oh and as for the angel himself, through his own psychic ability and with great help from the emperor himself, his body is starting to re-manifest itself in the real world. (I've always liked to thing the sanguinor was sanguinius slowly being reborn but was only able to enter the mortal plane rarely and with a fraction of his night. All of this buildup was part of a plan that came to mephiston in a vision from sanguinius and the emperor himself.. Which wouldn't be taken completely serious if it wasn't for him proving to Dante and the others through some type of expedition in which.. Something happens to prove that e really did speak to the soon to be reborn primarch and the emperor? Yeah I still have to work on that part. Basically soon the blood angels will e back to legion numbers and will be led by their primarch once more who will teach them to control the red thirst, I instead of it controlling them. Reason for this on the table is because we plan on this being a massive apoc campaign and will set us up for an even larger campaign later in the year. Reason for the fluff is I feel like this is a game where each player should be entitled to view their army and its future however they wish, an since GW hasn't written fluff for the future of the blood angels I want to follow my own views and desires for the chapter/legion. Just want to know what others think would be cool details to help sanguinius becoming reborn and his legion to swell back up in numbers of tens of thousands, as well as mastering the thirst. I also understand that the 80ish year timeframe I mentioned before is probably way too soon for all the chapters to swell there numbers back up to over 1k. So yeah, any ideas folks? Have some fun with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 When inventing fluff for something people had feelings for is bound to ruffle some peoples feathers. :) I'm fine with it. Others have tried scrying the 40k future. This one is not kind to the sons of the great angel: http://z6.invisionfree.com/bljunkies/index.php?showtopic=1308&st=240 Ps: start at page 1...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sondar Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I struggle with the idea that the Blood Angels number increase so much. We are a chapter clinging to the end of existence. The Flesh Tearers are even more dammed than everyone else, iirc fluff quotes them loosing more to Black Rage/Red Thirst than they can recruit. I would like to see some good background as to why the numbers of marines have increased so much, have BA cured the flaw? Is this linked to Sanguinius return. Are we dabbling with cloning? What does the inquisition think about all the extra red marines appearing? Please don't stop creating background, whatever anyone else's opinions. Infact I'm working on background for a summer champaign with a Sanguinius reborn element. I'm thinking of something very sinister and grim dark possibly involving ruinous powers, a cloning project and an attempt to cure the flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Remember that one space marine produces 2 gene seeds which take time to grow in a marine. You only get these out when the marine dies. For the Flesh tearers to go from 400 to 1000 marines, their entire remainder of the chapter would have to die more than once - 400 marines die = 800 gene seed to produce new marines, assuming 100% recovery rate. This is the reason the FT are dying. Their numbers are insufficient to bring the chapter to fighting strength without stopping fighting entirely for a century - the option Kantor chose when the Crimson fists were massacred. Space marine chapters are also too proud to accept gene seed from others. I doubt the BA, who are obsessed with genetic purity, would accept the more degenrate genes from the Flesh tearers. Bear in mind that it took the Ultramarines, a legions with Far more successors and a greater pool of planets from which to recruit (hundreds, as opposed to the single planet the BA recruit from), over 100 years to rebuild a single company after Behemoth attacked. That said, I'm speaking purely from precedent and from a logistical point of view, the fluff is yours to do with what you want :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Though Xenith - dont forget that it wasnt just any company the Ultras lost - it was their veteran marines. It takes time and opportunity to become a Veteran Space Marine (as compated to a veteran/experienced space marine). Acts of extreme (even amongst marines) bravery or combat prowess must be proven again and again, to ensure that only the very best of the best are elevated to the position since they must be the ultimate exemplar of the chapter at war. Added to that - the Ultras had to repair/replace all of their terminator armour (alongside all the other repairs their techmarines had to make), and then the new veterans had to be trained to use it properly. They also took significant casualties in several other companies during the other engagements, let alone in the two relief companies who took back the polar fortresses. Probably lost 1/4 to 1/3rd of the chapter over the course of the defeat of Behemoth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Good points, Leonaides! Remember Cassius's Tyrannic war veterans, though - Marines from regular companies who got field promoted to first company through their acts against the tyranids, despits possibly lacking the full range of battle experience a regular veteran would have. The 1st co also didn't exclusively fight in terminator armour, so replacement of this isn't an issue - promoted vets wear their own armour. If we go with your estimate of the UM losing 1/3 of their chapter to Behemoth, ans assume that the 100 year estimate is to get the UM chapter back to full strength, not just the 1st Co., that is still only creating 300-400 marines in 100 years - the UM also pulled back from fighting to defend Ultramar, so would be fighting less when they were recovering. The OP is proposing multiple chapters creating between a hundred or so to 600 marines each in 80 years. I just don't think the timescale is right. For the Flesh Tearers to get back to full strength, I think they would have to steer clear of all serious engagements (ones that would require a full chapter deployment) for 100-200 years at least. Sanguis - is there any particular reason why your Apoc campaigns need several thousand BA descendant space marines? I mean, you'll never actually be able to field all of those. But like I said, feel free to ignore me - Anything that makes a good background for a game. I particularly like your theory on Sanguinor being a manifestation of Sanguinius. Kinda makes me think of Dr Manhattan in Watchmen, where different aspects of him appear to different people at different times, as he begins to reassemble himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Well, if he fields a full company in each game (easily doable in apocalypse), and most of them die, and they play 10 games... 10x100 = 1000 marines right there. We surely don't want an entire chapter to be killed off in the space of 10 games! Edit: Also, if you can produce 2 space marines per space marine, but only when the space marine dies, then isn't the best way to grow a chapter to be involved in frequent conflicts, so you increase the rate at which marines die? I mean, the limiting factor here is marine death, seeing as marines can live to be over 1000! (Dante!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Office temp Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Well, if he fields a full company in each game (easily doable in apocalypse), and most of them die, and they play 10 games... 10x100 = 1000 marines right there. We surely don't want an entire chapter to be killed off in the space of 10 games! Edit: Also, if you can produce 2 space marines per space marine, but only when the space marine dies, then isn't the best way to grow a chapter to be involved in frequent conflicts, so you increase the rate at which marines die? I mean, the limiting factor here is marine death, seeing as marines can live to be over 1000! (Dante!) The harvesting of progenoids of course assumes the marines body is in relatively good condition and the priests are able to reach them to harvest the vital bits. That's not counting marines who's bodies may be contaminated by tyranid biotoxins, choas sorcery, or hit by a weapon powerfull enough to reduce the marine to a cloud of superheated gas and calcinated ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I did the same things a while back for a few apocalypse games against the great enemy, I'd post but can't remember where I saved them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguis militis Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Appreciate the encouragement from some a d critique from others. Now the whole reason for me personally trying to swell the numbers of marines in the chapter is for gaming reasons. The first, being the massive fleet assets that Dante and sanguinius managed to secure.. Which will help explain why in the first and later stages of the campaign ill be fielding such a huge space marine/imperial fleet in battle fleet gothic. The second is for the actual 40k tabletop where I plan on focusing on one specific chapter of the blood angels ( again at this point they would be back to the legion hierarchy and probably reconsuming the successor chapters back into legion chapters, just with a little more anonymity) led by sanguinius himself. I'm thinking something like the first company of modern day chapters, just with a hell of a lot more marines and from all different chapters. Oh and as for the inquisition, I've never liked them and seeing as one of my friends will be fielding grey knights + inquisitorial henchmen in this apoc campaign, I'm thinking that Dante pissed off the ordos and now has to whoop the inquisition fleets ass? Sounds right to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelloid Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Well, if he fields a full company in each game (easily doable in apocalypse), and most of them die, and they play 10 games... 10x100 = 1000 marines right there. We surely don't want an entire chapter to be killed off in the space of 10 games! Edit: Also, if you can produce 2 space marines per space marine, but only when the space marine dies, then isn't the best way to grow a chapter to be involved in frequent conflicts, so you increase the rate at which marines die? I mean, the limiting factor here is marine death, seeing as marines can live to be over 1000! (Dante!) The harvesting of progenoids of course assumes the marines body is in relatively good condition and the priests are able to reach them to harvest the vital bits. That's not counting marines who's bodies may be contaminated by tyranid biotoxins, choas sorcery, or hit by a weapon powerfull enough to reduce the marine to a cloud of superheated gas and calcinated ash. Sure, but if you have *no* dead space marines, then you have no fresh progenoid glands. (I'm not sure how great condition the body has to actually be in, the progenoid glands just need to be intact and uncontaminated, so tyranid biotoxins may or may not be a problem (if they rapidly cause death, they won't permeate the progenoid glands before circulation shuts down), chaos sorcery probably is, and of course vaporized marines are no help). So now we're just deciding which enemy will leave us the most useable corpses. Of course, we'll need access to the bodies as well, which means either BA wins, or the enemy is honorable enough that they allow us to retrieve our fallen comrades. Are there rules for pure kroot armies still? I think that's probably our best bet. Maybe Samm Hain. Eldar and Tau have sufficient honor that retrieving corpses shouldn't be terribly difficult. Infantry-based Tau may also provide a lot of useable corpses, and some eldar craftworlds may also be pretty good for this. I mean, I suppose combat isn't necessary. The Blood Angels could just institute ritual sacrifice or arena blood sports (without weapons like powerfists) to generate dead marines with available sanguinary priests. But that sounds like descent, not just rapid recruitment. The last option is of course to find a way to extract progenoid glands from living space marines. Differently crazy than the above, and possible to spin in the really crazy direction. Think nazi 'medical' experiments. So, unless we're talking about Chaos Blood Angels, continuous warfare it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It's perfectly possible to extract progenoids from live marines and they will not suffer and loss of ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 GIven kroots tendancy to eat their dead enemies, I don't think they'd be such a good enemy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Appreciate the encouragement from some a d critique from others. Now the whole reason for me personally trying to swell the numbers of marines in the chapter is for gaming reasons. The first, being the massive fleet assets that Dante and sanguinius managed to secure.. Which will help explain why in the first and later stages of the campaign ill be fielding such a huge space marine/imperial fleet in battle fleet gothic. The second is for the actual 40k tabletop where I plan on focusing on one specific chapter of the blood angels ( again at this point they would be back to the legion hierarchy and probably reconsuming the successor chapters back into legion chapters, just with a little more anonymity) led by sanguinius himself. I'm thinking something like the first company of modern day chapters, just with a hell of a lot more marines and from all different chapters. Oh and as for the inquisition, I've never liked them and seeing as one of my friends will be fielding grey knights + inquisitorial henchmen in this apoc campaign, I'm thinking that Dante pissed off the ordos and now has to whoop the inquisition fleets ass? Sounds right to me To be honest - you could achieve the same objectives by simply calling it a Crusade force made of combined elements form all the successors, without any complications around a reason to massively ramp up recruitment/numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Heremes Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Iirc some chapters harvest the geen-seed found in the neck as soon as it reaches maturity andcollect the second in the chest on marine death to speed up recruitment rates.thus a marine does not have to die to create a new marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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