New Eldar Codex... How do we fair up?

[Erluin]

Good point Hellios, all Eldar units now have a minimum of four for BS and WS.

[Forté]

Why the panic and need for a big toy to play with? They still go down when sneezed at and big things are easier to target. Prioritize targets people and hit them before they run away.

[skeletoro]

Why write off rending?

 

Range 12 is admittedly an issue. Is that what you were referring to? But leaving that aside and just looking at the numbers...

 

For 9 points you get:

 

Exactly as killy vs 5+ armour saves as a marine with a bolter (which is roughly 13-16 points depending on codex)

66% more deadly vs MEQ than said marine with bolter

100% more deadly vs 2+/5++ than said marine with bolter

 

That's a substantial buff.

 

Each point spent on grey hunters with bolt guns will kill 0.53 points of guardian while rapid firing.

Each point spent on guardians with shuriken catapults will kill 0.62 points of grey hunter while rapid firing.

 

The gap widens if guardians get cover, such as through Conceal.

 

You're going to have to be careful with guardians, and not let them get close. Especially if you rely on lots of TDA...

[eyeslikethunder]

If the reported cost At 130 pts for a wave serpent is true I'm not sure they will be that popular as most armies will glance them to death easily

 

Frankly, I´m really worried about the new Serpent shields. AV12 transports making all penetrating hits glances on 2+ seems just insane; I use Drop Pods and my main anti-tank are meltaguns so this is really going to hurt as glancing them to death with massed high-strength fire is not really an option.

[Hellios]

Why write off rending?

 

Range 12 is admittedly an issue. Is that what you were referring to? But leaving that aside and just looking at the numbers...

 

For 9 points you get:

 

Exactly as killy vs 5+ armour saves as a marine with a bolter (which is roughly 13-16 points depending on codex)

66% more deadly vs MEQ than said marine with bolter

100% more deadly vs 2+/5++ than said marine with bolter

 

That's a substantial buff.

 

It's good, but I also don't think it is huge. One will need to be careful when approaching large numbers of catapults with more elite units. That being said the short range isn't the only problem. Eldar are fragile. Let's pretend we are tailoring against Eldar. Whirlwinds and TFCs should be able to punish most Eldar troops. Short range and fragile means that very few catapults need make it into combat range if you truly wish to destroy them. Jetbikes are faster and tougher but also less numerous due to expense.

 

If you happen to be mechanized it is also not such a big deal (until your transports are busted).

 

I would compare it to Necron Gauss or Dark Eldar Poison weapons. A big deal if used properly in the right circumstances, but most of the time against a competent player it shouldn't be a big deal. The biggest issue would be for elite armies like (Draigo or Deathwing) that don't have good invulnerable saves (so if Deathwing don't have Storm shields).

[eyeslikethunder]

12" range does hurt in a world where rapid fire weapons move shoot 24 and Your troops have low toughness low saves and expensive transports.

 

While the devil is the detail(turrets on helldrakes) but so far the tau codex sounds meaner than the eldar one

[skeletoro]

I'm doubting those guardians are going to be slogging... and do you have the luxury to tailor your list against your opponent? Whirlwinds are situational. They'll be good against eldar, but... not so much against others.

 

I think Jetbikes are really where it's at, though. At what... 15 points per model? They're pretty sick. 12" move, 4+ cover save and the option of turbo boost (meaning no transport needed), TL shurikens, and they can bounce back 2d6 inches in the assault phase.

 

Are the jetbikes 3+ or 4+ AS? I've seen mixed reports but supposedly jetbikes give you a 3+. So they're simply tougher, faster, and more shooty than grey hunters.

[Baba Lem]

Eldar Jetbikes confer a 3+ AS. 

[Hellios]

I'm doubting those guardians are going to be slogging... and do you have the luxury to tailor your list against your opponent? Whirlwinds are situational. They'll be good against eldar, but... not so much against others.

 

I think Jetbikes are really where it's at, though. At what... 15 points per model? They're pretty sick. 12" move, 4+ cover save and the option of turbo boost (meaning no transport needed), TL shurikens, and they can bounce back 2d6 inches in the assault phase.

 

Are the jetbikes 3+ or 4+ AS? I've seen mixed reports but supposedly jetbikes give you a 3+. So they're simply tougher, faster, and more shooty than grey hunters.

 

Eldar Jetbikes are good and a squad of 10 costs around the same as a tactical squad. However being cheaper makes a bigger difference than the rending.  It now means you can risk losing them. The only problem is they are still so ugly I can't take them XD. Currently lots of Eldar players have been using them with shuriken cannons as little sniper squads... Bigger squads are harder to hide. If they come close they risk being charged (random charge range)... but at their new lower price they can afford to be charged...

 

Anyway I suggest a certain power that makes terrain difficult and dangerous... I normally take it anyway (not tailoring against Eldar). Once their speed is reduced... You probably will catch them... In combat they are not superior to grey hunters.

[eyeslikethunder]

The jet bikes were already popular in 6th so i expect to see a lot of them

 

but the guardians i doubt we will see many of them the serpent costs more than squad and isnt durable enough to keep them safe

 

just think the guardians will not be picked over

The jet bikes if they are both troop choices

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, the new Eldar book will change a lot of things but like it has been said, we will just have to learn to the in's & out's. THe biggest issue marine players of any stripe will have to contend with will be the Dark Reapers. Their Range Finder nullifies jink saves, they are still AP3 AND their squad size has been increased to up to 10. Wriath Blades are another concern but I want to see a little more about them. They're Wraith Guard equipped for CC. Yes the Wraith Knight is S10 & T awesome but it's also enormous. Good luck on trying to get cover saves. THe bloody sword it comes with is slightly longer then a Rhino(we compared it last night). Anyways, interesting times ahead Brothers & Sisters.

Dark Reapers have always been a viscious threat- they havent changed a wink, just got cheaper. The big thing to watch out for, I suppose, is that a dark reaper squad can now put out 10 *one per model, the unit size got bigger* pinning krak missiles. Of course, thats a ~400pt squad too....

I heard the wraithknight is something crazy like

S 10 T8. Wow!

All Wraithlords have been S10 T8 for.... 11 years? 12 years? God Im old.

We need to find our insider spy (Grey Mage) and encourage him to give up some details. GM is an Eldar player and I'm sure his hands are wringing evilly right now.

Hehe.... I love you too Rags. What can I do for you?

So, what do we have going on here. Well.... the heavy support slot is as always stuffed to the gills. Eldar will love double FOC more than just about any other army out there, I promise. They also get relatively little out of allies- not because theres nothing to gain, but rather because the list has alot of expensive units in it. I expect Tau Firewarriors with their Infantry commander and some AA Broadsides will be a common inclusion, time will tell.

As for the list itself, things to watch out for: Almost the entire list can move-shoot-move. Its a run with a reroll via fleet, but still powerful. Any table with alot of soft terrain/area terrain will heavily favor the eldar player.

60" weapons. Alot of eldar heavy weapons are only 36", and alot of their best infantry weapons are 12" range. Something we as marine players have always capitalized on. They now have trippled the number of 48" or greater weapons in their arsenal- including having one that is D6+1 S7 shots mounted on every single waveserpent. The Fire Prism no longer needs to link fire- its large blast is automatically S5/AP3, wich means its a marine killer to the core. Expect it to always have a 4+ cover save from its holofield, assuming its moved *and why wouldnt it?*

Warwalkers got cheaper. The heavy weapon options on it got cheaper too. Theyre also BS 4. These will be just as ubiquitous as ever Im sure, but youll see more starcannon+scatterlaser combinations in all likelyhood. Why? Because if the scatter laser hit the other weapon becomes twin linked. Scary stuff.

Warp Spiders are Jet Infantry now, not jump infantry- and their assault move is 2d6+6 or 2d6, the longer one kills a man on doubles. I expect these to be very common *I was using 3 squads in the lst codex, that may become a thing for most players* as they are S7 against anything with I 3 or vs vehicles.

Banshees.... are crippled. They went down to 15pts a piece, but still have no assault transport. Some people will find ways to make them work, but honestly I dont think theyre a worry. If they are, just sit in cover- they have no grenades, so youll go simultaneously with their new masks.

Farseers- no more runes of warding exploding your rune priest heads. Everyone in the game rejoices, except eldar players. Getting witchfire powers off on a unit with a farseer is going to be nearly impossible though. I expect most people will either stop running these guys OR start using exclusively BRB powers due to the... plethora of warp chage 2 powers. Being mastery level 3 doesnt go as far with random powers and most of them costing 2.

Spiritseers- expect to see these in alot of lists. They get to roll on the warlock table- easily the better of the two, AND they make Wraithguard troops. More on Wraithguard in a moment. Look out for debuffs- the spiritseer can potentially remove a point of armor save from everyone on a unit within 18", and remove stealth from entire units is going to be common.

Phoenix Lords are just as crazy badass as ever, and I expect well all be seeing more of them. Particularly:

Asurmen- the Dire Avenger guy, he gets D3 warlord traits, an AP 2 at I7 weapon, 4 attacks, eternal warrior, a 3++ in return for only attacking once if he wants to, oh and his sword is also a leadership-test or die to any unsaved wound kind of weapon. Ooops.

Baharroth. So, Swooping Hawk guy, he deepstrikes without scattering *all swooping hawks do this now* and anyone within 6" must take a blind test. His sword has blind. Swooping Hawk Exarchs have a 3 shot gun with blind. The big old WraithKnights 5++ shield is a 6" aoe blind if he makes his save. Thats ALOT OF BLIND.

Theres for the record alot of blind, alot of pinning, alot of leadership reduction... so, Wolf Guard may be more needed than ever, and roll hot on this initiative checks.

Fire Dragons went up in points to 22pts a model. That means if you arent taking land raiders they will most often be as expensive as the tank they are targetting. Still a threat, still worth their points, they now have a 3+ save and can move-shoot-move. On the other hand... theres alot of good antitank in the eldar army. You may see less of them.

I promised more on Wraithguard- heres the skinny. 5 man units clock in at 160-200pts depending on the option. Cheaper option- 2 AP3 S6 attarcks, 1 AP 2 S7 attack with a 4++, or a S10 gun with AP 2 that instakills on a to wound roll of 6.... the more expensive one? A S4 AP2 flamer. The whole unit must have the same gun. There is no reason this unit will ever, for any reason, not be troops. Sadly for eldar players we cant attach regular warlocks to them anymore. Spiritseer ICs on the other hand....

Wraithlords- lost two points of strength *now S8* but can take two non twin linked heavy weapons of the same type, upgrade to S9, and are still T8 with 3 wounds and a 3+. Grey Hunters should avoid them, but Long Fangs will wreck them in a decent turns rolling with lascannons, or a CML Wolf Guard attachment included.

Wraithknights- ranged options cap out at 36", but it can move 12" a turn as jump infantry. Only 4 attacks, at S10 sure- and if it has a sword it rerolls all failed hits and wounds. The 'suncannon' is 3 small blasts, S6/Ap2, but it can only have one of those *paired with the blinding 5++ shield* so dont let anyone try to take two of them on you! The two guns are S10, AP2, instakill on a 6, with a 36" range. It can take two of the S6 eldar heavy weapons for a steep price, but that might be common.

Wraithknights can Deep Strike. They are 'jump monstrous creatures'. Expect to see this happen atleast once. Have a plan. If at all possible use autocannons on this guy, or biomancied rune priests. Why? To avoid the blind effect. Or you could just do a single champion style hero with a S10 Thunderhammer... we have one of those, itd wreck his face. Catching him on the other hand.... good luck.

Eldar vehicles overall got more expensive in their base price- many of my craftworld brethren scream like the sky is falling because of this. All of the upgrades for weapons etc got sooooo much cheaper though, and for hte most part my vehicles are coming in at 10-50pts cheaper than ever before *except the last few months when holofields were a waste, still* and are all Ballistic Skill 4. Combined with as much twin linking, guiding, etc as you want and its a very, very accurate army.

Most eldar players arent fond of the flyers it sounds like- I think theyre silly, youre local meta will be telling Im sure- the fighter gets 4 S8 AP 2 shots, possibly at BS 5- or 4 S6 and 2 S8 shots. It shreds anything it wants to, and with vector dancer you will not be forcing it off the table anytime soon. Promise. However, we have no flyers for it to shoot down, and so its less of a threat to anything wolves regularly use than say... cron air, or dragonheavy chaos lists. Expect those to be a little less common if you have eldar players in your area. The bomber on the other hand... short ranged, relies on leadership tests to make enemies run.... S6/AP2 blasts at 18".... its offensive enough, but itll die quickly to massed bolter fire, let along anything scarier. Stay in cover, take the hit and then down it like a pidgeon with gas.

Jetbikes on the other hand are much cheaper in their base price- down five points!- and can still move up to 72" a turn. A smart player will have 1-2 small squads hiding the whole game and rush them to objectives near the end. Wolf Scouts with plasmagun+pistols will help remove that as a valid tactic, also help against long range tanks and reapers... Id take them alot. 130pts isnt a bad price for the security they give.

Lastly, a note on shurican weapons. Yes, the rumors are true- any to wound roll of a 6 is AP 2. This is excellent for eldar players. BUT. And its a big but- guardians are still 12" range, so bolters should shred them like nobodies business before theyre ever in range. Dire Avengers are more of a problem, however they can no longer 'bladestorm' for additional shots. So, you can expect to lose perhaps 2-3 guys from AP2, and about the same from failed saves, if they get a solid chunk of hits. If you reduce the squads firepower, or have a cover save, theyre less threatening in many ways than they once were- and more expensive.

Any specific questions I can help you with? Yes, you should take a whirlwind to remove rangers from objectives and other scoring units from wherever they are.

[Grey Mage]

Oh, something to watch for, theres a rumor- and just a rumor mind you- that the eldar jetbikes will be FAQd to be able to turboboost before or after shooting.

I dont think itll happen, but well wait and see.

[Hellios]

Oh, something to watch for, theres a rumor- and just a rumor mind you- that the eldar jetbikes will be FAQd to be able to turboboost before or after shooting.

 

I dont think itll happen, but well wait and see.

 

I'd like to see how they make the DE faster than the CWE XD

[Forté]

I thought the FAQ was already up

[Hellios]

I thought the FAQ was already up

 

In Polish on the British GeeDub site...

[skeletoro]

Seriously? That would be crazy.

[Grey Mage]

I thought the FAQ was already up

Only one piece- a typo on the support weapon battery that had a small blast as large blast.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Thanks for that insider info Grey! Good stuff.

[legalsars]

Eldar are one of my armies. The ap2 shurikens may be peoblematic if we arent in cover. Thankfuoly however covr saves are pretty easy to come by. The overwatching will get nastier. Unreliable doom Power make banshees even worse against t4 but theres now a power that can make them effective against tda again but theres that toughness is an issue and eating wolf overwatch.

Scorpions with initiative 6 ap 2 claws will be an issue.

Reapers are still power armor killers

More to come

[legalsars]

Stuck at store so ill write some more.

Farseer powers are random but all pretty decent. One turns the farseee into a baby avatar which could splatter some guys but if he runs out of juice from the spell he is removed. They are mastery 3 but the majority of the farseer spells are 2 warp points so unless he takes multiple primaris you will likely see one power. Runes of warding and witnessing are totally different and suck now for the eldar. Sw ru ne priest wont have an issue casting nea r one AND you can still nulify their spells on a 4 up.

Warlock powers are a bit more offensive but n ow they have to roll for them rather than having them go off automatically. Warlocks can be seconded to squads in the manner wolf guard are and provide psychic benefits for the squad offensively and defensively

 

Fire dragons have 3up armor but are now 22 points per dude.

Wraithguard nolonger have wraithsight and now have the deathscythe which is an ap2 str 4 flamer or wraithcannons which im sure you remember if you fought eldar before. They have a unit called wraithblades which sounds just like what it is... wraithdudes with cc gear. They can upgrade to have shimmer shields giving him an invul in cc.

 

The wraithfivhter is an issue for us because it can cause rerolls on ldtests and cast horrify... debuffing leadership by 3 given our leadership is generally 8 on our nonwg units this can be an issue it can also take lpast template dscythes

The crimson hunter is an antiair fighter with a buttload od str. 8 weapons. If it can hit a lanraider it will probably melt or glance it to death... but we dont havr fliers so we dont have to fear its true purpose.

Both fliers are vector dancer and av10.

 

The superunit wraithknight is pretty vicious. Comes stock with two wraithcannons that cause str 10 plates 36 in away. The suncannon is basically an executioner turret without overheat rules for plasma. It can also go cc with a giant sword and invul shield. Its 3

[Ghostwolfalpha]

How is having two strength 10 pie plates a turn with 6 wounds and T8 balanced? Unless it has no ap, that is just bananas. JotWW it is...

[legalsars]

How is having two strength 10 pie plates a turn with 6 wounds and T8 balanced? Unless it has no ap, that is just bananas. JotWW it is...

Basically or arjack or two lone wolves with tda and thunderhammers. Youd knock its initiative pretty far down the next round or turn no?

 

Id also add that fisfighting with the thing is probably the most effective wah to drop it just on sheer attacks we can kick out with say thunder wolf cav

 

Re balance its one of its set ups and its basically the antitank or large deathstar killer. Those guns are long ranged wraithcannons basically.

 

As for the rest of thr setups. Im personally magnetizing mine but I think v meq armies ill be taking the suncannon with shield.

 

While t8 6 wound monster seems nasty its only armor 3, doesnt come stock with an invulnerable, and it costs a lot to field in terms of points. I cannot see this thing being all that spammable like helldrakes are.

 

Even if they were each one is a lot of eggs in one not so tough but very blasty basket. Also being monstrous and not a vehicle means joww

[Grey Mage]

How is having two strength 10 pie plates a turn with 6 wounds and T8 balanced? Unless it has no ap, that is just bananas. JotWW it is...

There no pie plate.

 

Its single shot, like a lascannon. No way to get a large blast.

 

You can get a single gun with 3 small blasts at S6 AP2, a mastercrafted mellee weapon, or two guns with S10, AP2, and instadeath on a to wound roll of 6. The first two options come with a 5++ save that blinds people within 6" if it goes off.

 

The farseer powers are largely rubbish, as they cost 2 warp charges a piece and are either the same as before, or worse. The 'death mission' power is great- +5 to WS, I, and a whole bunch of extra attacks.... on a model that cant ignore armor saves and has only a 4++ for survival. Oh- they cant cast any further powers once its active and the farseer automatically dies at the end of the game. Huzzah? No thank you.

 

 

The Wraithfighter... is intresting. Its 185pts for an AV 10 flyer, with 18" S4 small blast guns.... and the terrify power with a reroll on all pinning/morale checks within 12". Thats alright... but so expensive, so fragile, I dont think youll ever see one on the board. If you do, one round of quad gun shooting at it has a fairly good shot at simply taking it off the board as fast as it was put on. Its also so short ranged- 12" for full effect- and so lightly armored that a single unit of Plasma toting GHs could potentially remove it with a bit of luck on the to hit roll. Honestly I think its the worst unit in the codex, wich is sad because if you could take the mindshock pod on any other unit, itd be great.

[legalsars]

My bad j f it was misstated. Codex is home, I await the pharmacisg. Lol.

[skeletoro]

Hmm, 2 warp charge, yet the farseer is the only psyker in the game with a way to reduce that cost to 1, correct?