GeneralSimpson Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Gone back to drawing board.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Unfortunately, there are a lot of problems with this idea's interaction with the rest of the 40k universe as you've presented it. First and foremost, the very purpose of these guys would be pointless. Space Marine chapters can already do what your guys do. Several of them do so quite regularly (the Raven Guard, for example). There's no real need for their existence. Especially since you then have them follow the Codex (if this stuff is Codex, then almost all chapters are going to know how to do it. If it's not, they're not following the Codex). Second, their name isn't very 40Kish. The closest organization to what you're trying to make would seem to be the Deathwatch. Space Marine organizations are named like the pseudo-knightly pseudo-monastic definitely-crazy things they are, not like modern military units. On top of that, it's about as subtle as a brick about where you got it from. This is kind of important, since their name's going to be the most prominent thing about them. There's a couple of other points. Originally, the SAS was only the size of a couple of Drop pod companies...Drop Pod companies?and comprised of a mixture of Ultramarines, Black Templars, and White Scars.When I think sneaky guerilla warfare, I think crusading zealots who like to burn things...However, as more and more Ultramarines joined the SAS, the Lords of Terra decided that the SAS needed to be a stand alone chapter that would be able to assist not only the Ultramarines, but other chapters and the Imperial Guard as well.This just doesn't make sense. Why would an organization be created to only assist the Ultramarines (they've got the Genesis Chapter for that )? Why wouldn't this organization have been assisting the Imperial Guard already, since they're probably the group that would need it most? How would a chapter be more capable of assisting a bunch of different groups than a more decentralized organization? * * * I guess my biggest question is "what are you trying to do?" Did you make these guys because you didn't think Space Marines used those tactics, and you wanted a chapter that did? Or do you want something else out of the idea? What do you want out of your chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3385805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Black Templars are sneaky. One day you have a perfectly good planet and the next you're nailed to a lamp post with the word HERETIC carved into their chest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3385827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 A space marine chapter does not, in the general scheme of things, require assistaince from another space marine chapter en mass. The co-operation of a couple of companies form separate chapters who find themselves in the same warzone is generally common, should their objectives and enemy require it, but that doesnt need a whole chapter being created to do so. Also, your chapter would be able to make a meaningful deployment in maybe 6-7 warzones at a time - far too small a number to be worth the creation of a chapter designed specifically to team up with other chapters. And thats assuming that those other chapters want the help - marines are proud, and many would consider the inference that they are incapable of prosecuting a warzone without your assistance a mortal insult. I agree with Octavulg - exactly what are you wanting to do here? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3385834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Basically I wanted to come up with a chapter that employed drop pods en mass that could used with allies (which is funny that there is now a FOC for allies for space marines, if they do not require assistance ). Anyway, as far as the name, I wanted something that signifies that they are a drop pod and deep strike primary deployment. I have seen "knights of," "sons of," etc, etc, etc. I wanted something different from what is out there. I thought hard about what to name them and the SAS is what I came up with. Not 40Kish? Maybe, but I still like it and since it is my chapter.... I hope that I answered some of the questions, and I have read over this several times as I do not want to offend, attack, or come of as stand-offish and none of these are my intent and I hope I have not insulted anyone. I am going back to work on the SAS Chapter and try to come up with a better idea for a basis (this may take a while ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3385956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 If SAS is what you want, take SAS. It sounds goofy as heck to me but most Chapter names do, really. I should talk, with my Emerald Tigers. Or good lawd, the Carcharadons Astra. I will say that you should look up the Deathwatch and Raptors. You may save yourself some time and effort by going with one, the other or both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3385995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Hey...Don't bash the *Sniggers*, Space Sharks. I play them after all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3386002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 GeneralSimpson Basically I wanted to come up with a chapter that employed drop pods en mass that could used with allies (which is funny that there is now a FOC for allies for space marines, if they do not require assistance huh.png ).They can get assistance. Doesn't mean they need it. They're fast-moving, fairly independent forces - they're going to end up working alone a lot. Pretty much any Chapter will use a lot of Drop Pods at some point. Hell, it's one of the major Space Marine tactics. What else are you looking for in a Chapter? Anyway, as far as the name, I wanted something that signifies that they are a drop pod and deep strike primary deployment.You have that. They're called "Space Marines" for a reason, after all. Seriously. The things you're emphasizing are very much the norm for Space Marines. Hell, by using the term "air" you risk making people think about Thunderhawks instead. Falling Stars or something like that might suggest Drop Pods without suggesting anything else. Or Meteor Legion or something like that. I have seen "knights of," "sons of," etc, etc, etc. I wanted something different from what is out there.The thing is, after a certain point, "different" becomes "not". If you tell me they're the Special Air Service, I'm going to wonder when the British military acquired 41st millenium power armour or wonder where your Valkyries are, not think they're a really uniquely named Marine chapter.I thought hard about what to name them and the SAS is what I came up with. Not 40Kish? Maybe, but I still like it and since it is my chapter....I just don't think it's very good at doing what you want it to do or at being a recognizably Space Marine name, which kind of makes it a failure on all fronts. You don't have to agree with me. You SHOULD, but you don't have to. I hope that I answered some of the questions, and I have read over this several times as I do not want to offend, attack, or come of as stand-offish and none of these are my intent and I hope I have not insulted anyone. I am going back to work on the SAS Chapter and try to come up with a better idea for a basis (this may take a while confused.gif ).No worries. Reading the DIY Guide (it's in the DIY Resources thread at the top of the forum) or my own Octaguide (I didn't name it, honest) might be of some help to you or prompt some ideas. If you know what else you're looking for in a chapter beyond Drop Pods, we can probably suggest some DIYs or official chapters that already exist. Colors, personality, history, what have you... Vazzy Space Sharks is an awesome and magnificent name. Carcharadons Astra is a pathetic attempt to try and hide from the fact that 40K is more than a little silly at times, which fails because you're still talking about eight foot guys in power armor modelling themselves after sharks, but now you're doing it in LATIN. So you made the right call, is what I'm saying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3386015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Basically I wanted to come up with a chapter that employed drop pods en mass that could used with allies (which is funny that there is now a FOC for allies for space marines, if they do not require assistance ). Anyway, as far as the name, I wanted something that signifies that they are a drop pod and deep strike primary deployment. I have seen "knights of," "sons of," etc, etc, etc. I wanted something different from what is out there. I thought hard about what to name them and the SAS is what I came up with. Not 40Kish? Maybe, but I still like it and since it is my chapter.... Dont forget that the name of the SAS was originally (north africa 1941) a double-bluff since the one thing they definately dont do is fly. So you might consider a name for your chapter that has absolutely nothing suggesting a preference for aerial combat drops -The Earthfast Legion for example (bad bad example I know but you get the idea I hope). I hope that I answered some of the questions, and I have read over this several times as I do not want to offend, attack, or come of as stand-offish and none of these are my intent and I hope I have not insulted anyone. I am going back to work on the SAS Chapter and try to come up with a better idea for a basis (this may take a while ). No worries (and good luck with the re-think) - this is the 'laid-back' forum where the girl-marines rub shoulders with the Tau-allied marines and the 666 different 2 'Lost Legions' are in charge of the refreshments... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3386200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Octavulg: Yeah there DEFINITELY is a British theme and all my armor (Land raiders, rhinos, drop pods, everything) is WWII British Armor Green. My Chaplin has a Union Jack on the shield on his shoulder. Most of my armies tend to be British in nature (I have a Bachelors in English History and I love to read books on the military). The primary colors of their power armor is black with variations of trim colors (red, white, blue) for the different companies. I have tried the random name generators, mascots plus adjectives, and so on. The problem became that it started to sound like a bad university mascot. I had a friend who ran the "sons of Martha (Stewart)" and everything was pink. Another friend that moved to California runs the "Constipated Bears" that he said was from the Angry Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3386516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Update: I received a text today and a friend of mine (TJ) is doing an inquisitor army (no marines) and modeling them on Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3386830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Hi. I'm a britIsh soldier. I looooove themed chapters, they're fun, quirky and shove the fluff up the super nerds arses. I've toyed with doing a 95th rifles chapter myself called the Sharp Rifles. *audible groan* but the groans are why we do it. If you are doing a ww2 british theme you have to keep it light hearted due to the very obvious nature, much like the Catachan (Vietnam) devils being 80's film action heros to a man. Just pleeeeease please pleeeeeeease don't call them SAS!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Technically, 40k already has its own Sharpe, but the Sons of Sharpe sounds awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Edited out to save face Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Easy, friend. No need to get defensive. Nobody is ridiculing or demeaning your choice of name. Some people do want to be told about elements of their ideas that don't fit in 40k or as in your case don't sound 40k-ish. I woukd say most people. It's taken for granted here that posting one's ideas on this sub-forum is an invitation for C&C for the sake of bettering those ideas. So there will be criticism and it may be on parts particularly liked by that person. But the golden rule here is that the only opinion that really matters is your own. We will provide our comments and critique, unless specifically requested to provide none we will assume that's wanted, but whether you act on it or not is up to you. If you want your Chapter to be called SAS, we won't try to stop you or belittle you for it. But we will remark on how out of place it sounds. What you do with that is what you will. Sounds to me like you and your group strive for this. Silly, out of place armies. We'll point that out. But if you're for it, hell. Have fun with it, then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Hey bud, no offence! No ones telling you to change anything! No one is hating on here. It's just personal opinion. Mine matters a lot less than most cause I don't actually play 40k, I'm just a painter. I'd love to see some pics with the ol union flag on your guys! Incidentally did you know that special air service in Latin sounds awesome? servitium speciali a'ris I WILL be disappointed if you don't name your chapter master for David Sterling :-D Edit: David sterling in Latin is : David Sterlingoram ;-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Or D'vid Argentum, working the sterling silver aspect... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Basically I wanted to come up with a chapter that employed drop pods en mass that could used with allies (which is funny that there is now a FOC for allies for space marines, if they do not require assistance ). Anyway, as far as the name, I wanted something that signifies that they are a drop pod and deep strike primary deployment. I have seen "knights of," "sons of," etc, etc, etc. I wanted something different from what is out there. I thought hard about what to name them and the SAS is what I came up with. Not 40Kish? Maybe, but I still like it and since it is my chapter.... I hope that I answered some of the questions, and I have read over this several times as I do not want to offend, attack, or come of as stand-offish and none of these are my intent and I hope I have not insulted anyone. I am going back to work on the SAS Chapter and try to come up with a better idea for a basis (this may take a while ). If you're still wanting to do a drop-pod heavy themed army do you want to work into your background particualr table-top effective combinations, or do you not necessarily want to be that 'limited' by your background (as in if you say your chapter only uses things that come in drop-pods that would rule out tanks/landspeeders/etc, but if you say your chapter 'favours' drop-pod assaults then you can still take non-podded forces alongside your podded troops). Just something to think about (and I'd recommend the latter - dont paint yourself into a corner when you dont have to/leave some wriggle room so if the rules change and you find yourself wanting to field something else then you dont want to have to re-write your background to allow yourself to do it). You can still have allies - and i hope I didnt make you think you couldnt. There are plenty of good reasons to have allies occasionally (and it might just be that all the battles you end up fighting for real on a tabletop 'just happen to' be battles where allies are present) but your army background should not set you up as a force that only fights with allies - again its a limiting thing and doesnt really make sense for a marine chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3388721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess my mother and wife are right, I am too sensitive for my own good. I would just like to say the following: "To everyone who took their time to read and respond to this post, I am sorry. You each took time out of your days to talk about this hobby and I hope that I can continue on this forum without anyone here (or reading this in the future) may not think less of me. Posting to a forum means that I am opening my ideas up to others for their opinions and those are important to them. So mea culpa everyone. I promise to be more adult than I have been." Lost Britian: I love the idea of Latin, Oh and the Chapter Master is actually Field Marshall Winston Churchill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3389282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 My camera still sucks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3389286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 That's frikken awesome! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3389474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralSimpson Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Thanks LB... I just wish the camera quality was better. That was the first marine that I ever painted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276350-special-air-service/#findComment-3389934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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