Anti-Necron tactics?

[Robert2004]

Hey thanks for the advice guys appreciate it, tomorrow (Thursday) is when the battle will happen to I will keep you all posted and let you all know what happens! I've taken some good advice away from this and my rough army list looks as follows, no points as I'm just typing it faster.

 

HQ -

Capt, relic, combi plasma, art armor, hellfire rounds.

Librarian, plasma pistol, smite + gate.

 

Troops.

3x10 tac squads, 2 razorback, 1 rhino, 1 flamer, 1 melta, 1 plasma, 1 heavy bolter, 1 plasma cannon, 1 missile launcher.

 

Elite.

5 sternguard, 3 combi melta, drop pod.

Assault terminators 3 TH/SS 2 LC

Dreadnaught, multi melta, heavy flamer, close combat weapon.

 

Fast attack

10m assault squad, 1 flamer, 1 plasma pistol, 1 power fist.

 

Heavy support

5 devastators, 3 missile, 1 lascannon

Predator, heavy bolters, hunter killer missile, autocannon.

 

Aegis defense line with quad gun.

 

Decided to drop the land raider and get a capt, predator and heavy flamer for dread. Capt will go with the razor back squads to push objectives and the lib will gate (hopefully) the terminators. I will use the assault squad to get first strike when he gets close enough to assault me his following turn!

 

Don't know a lot about the necrons so can anyone recommend a unit which is a MUST KILL, such as tau pathfinders? A unit that is a big danger to me and I should take it out ASAP? =]

 

Thanks again for the advice.

 

Edit, If strongly recommended I can take my capt with TDA armor and drop the relic blade and art armor (roughly same points anyway) and use him with the assault terminators? Just its a big points gamble with the gate and if you roll a double one of the squad dies =S

[Ishagu]

The list youve posted is fine. Hope you win, let us know the outcome and what worked well!

[DarkGuard]

Swap Smite for Null Zone on the Libby. If you want anti-Necron powers on him, Avenger is the better choice (replace Gate for it). Smite will probably kill only one once you've passed the psychic test, rolled to hit, rolled to wound, and of course they can come back up. Avenger, on the other hand, will hit more, auto-hits, and is more likely to wound, and still goes through their armour. I'm being serious here, Smite is the biggest Space Marine psychic power pitfall in the Codex. It looks good, but in practice it's pretty bad.

 

Null Zone is also needed if they decide to bring their Lychguard. If they don't, then you'll probably find the powers in Telepathy and some of the powers in Biomancy to be better, but you make that decision when you deploy.

[Robert2004]

The plan is to get the librarian to use gate and take the terminators closer to combat? I will swap smite, but in the C;SM it gives you the option of two powers so not sure I can take any from the other powers list? I will be running Ultramarines so basic vanilla marines.

[DarkGuard]

To be honest, I'd put the Land Raider back in. Gate is an awful way to get Terminators into combat, as they will die the minute you teleport them close enough to charge. With all the tesla and gauss weaponry they have they will get shot a lot, they will get a lot saves to make, and you will fail a lot of them. With the Raider you keep their mobility and protect them. Drop the Captain and Dread to stick the Land Raider back in, they're really not needed, and are suboptimal choices at best in most lists.

 

With the Librarian, how it works for us is that you take 2 powers from C:SM, decided before game. So that's always Null Zone and one other power, normally Avenger or Gate, but Might/Vortex/Curse are also acceptable. When you deploy your army (or before, whenever you roll for psychic powers), you then have the opportunity to trade out both of your C:SM powers for 2 BGB powers, which you roll on the tables available for C:SM. The best ones here are Biomancy (for Enfeeble and Endurance), or Telepathy (for Psychic Shriek and Puppet Master). The other powers on Biomancy for us aren't as good as the others in Telepathy, so Telepathy is often the better choice. So you have the choice, 2 C:SM powers, or 2 BGB powers, and you make that choice when you deploy, not when you make the list. It adds some nice flexibility, so we can be ready with Null Zone and Avenger for invulnerable save heavy armies and PA heavy armies, but also swap out to other powers should those powers not be great (like when against Nids).

[Robert2004]

Just got back from my game and as requested I will let you all know what happened. Firstly I never seen your post DarkGuard and was not even aware that librarians could do that (As I said still very green) so I ended up taking null zone and avenger, the army list was as above.

My opponent had C'tan, 2 x18m necron warrior squads, a destroyer lord and a squad of 8 of them with him, he has two squads of Immortals(? with the bigger gauss weapons) He also had a few crazy hq choices in there with some weapons if he hit me along with the C'tan difficult terrain I was facing dangerous terrain checks if I wanted to move?

It was frustrating facing the necrons and especially that :cuss about difficult terrain as I rolled a 1 first off and immobilized my first razorback which was useless to me the rest of the game. Also I don't have the necron codex but can I get a RULE CHECK on the mind scarabs thing where at the start of EVERY assault phase he was forcing a 3D6 LD test on one of my people and if failed they then attacked the team? I mean what to actual?? I lost an assault terminator squad and almost the librarian to this as he kept doing it every single time...

Also his destroyer lord literally got up no less than 5 times? Is this also possible as I was within 3' of the dude and remember reading here that they can't get up if thats the case? He said it was some weird rule and that allowed him to do it and he knows pretty much everything about 40k so I tool his word on it?

C'Tan was a bit of an pain too sat at the back and kept difficult terrain and my army was slow as hell and I lost three assault marines due to difficult terrain tests when they take off or land in the terrain, until I started just running with them as I wouldn't face the test anymore. He also stacked the C'tan difficult terrain, the weapon which hits and means its dangerous terrain to mean that I was failing the tests on a 1 and 2?

The game itself finished 16-5 with me demolishing him and holding the two objectives at the end for +6, my sternguard got first blood and knocked out his transport which spawns necrons, I killed his warlord (after it getting up 5 times), I killed a necron warrior squad, C'tan, the destroyers and his other HQ unit which he had embedded within a warrior unit. Combat and their low initiative seen me sweeping advance his warriors and destroyers!!

I was pretty impressed with my army and how they managed to wipe the floor but it was very frustrating all the same especially with my librarian and assault terminators killing themselves. My devastator marines done well the Sergent using his signum to ensure the lascannon got the finishing blow on C'tan! The dreadnaught and assault marines routed a warrior squad easily, and the rhino got a half strength tac squad across the field to hold the objective by the end of turn four! He glanced to death my razorback and almost my predator (it sat on 1 HP for 3 turns ha ha)!!

A steep learning curve tonight but enjoyed the game and look forward to our next one next Thursday, where he will bring another army I have not faced yet!

I can try my hand at a small battle report if you guys would be interested in reading what I done and why and what he done and how I countered it? Not done one before but would give it a bash!

Also sorry for the massive wall of text but I had a lot to say, if your reading this thanks for reading this far ha ha! =]

EDIT; Massive THANK YOU for the guys who have helped me craft an army list and gave me advice!

................................................

Having had a look at a necron codex it would seem the rule he was using for his C'tan the 'Writhing worldscape' bears no mention to open terrain being difficult terrain? It does say that to your enemy difficult will become dangerous and if it is already dangerous it will fail the test on a 1 and 2....

Can anyone clarify this, that I have read the rule correctly? If this is the case it appears I have been cheated ha ha (unknowingly I hope) and I had no need to role difficult terrain tests for every single unit move until about the 4th turn when I took the C'tan out!!

It would have saved my razorback, assault marines and my force as a whole would have been able to move more freely? I hope I have read it wrongly as if not that would suck majorly. Still won tho but if its the case just goes to show, question everything! Should of had him read the rule to me as when he first mentioned it I was like ??

[corlinjewell]

Hey man,

 

Glad you won. The neurons can be a frustrating foe (it didn't sound like he used those stupid flyers, so be thankful haha).

 

On a side note, NEVER be afraid to ask and see a rule or look it up yourself. People are wrong all the time, even those who seem to know every rule. Little mistakes and misreadings can make a big difference, and it's bad sportsmanship if someone gets upset if you ask for clarification.

[Office temp]

With the mind shackle scarabs, the controlled unit only gets D3 attacks

[bystrom]

 

can I get a RULE CHECK on the mind scarabs thing where at the start of EVERY assault phase he was forcing a 3D6 LD test on one of my people and if failed they then attacked the team?

 

Also his destroyer lord literally got up no less than 5 times? Is this also possible as I was within 3' of the dude and remember reading here that they can't get up if thats the case? He said it was some weird rule and that allowed him to do it and he knows pretty much everything about 40k so I tool his word on it?

 

C'Tan was a bit of an pain too sat at the back and kept difficult terrain and my army was slow as hell and I lost three assault marines due to difficult terrain tests when they take off or land in the terrain, until I started just running with them as I wouldn't face the test anymore. He also stacked the C'tan difficult terrain, the weapon which hits and means its dangerous terrain to mean that I was failing the tests on a 1 and 2?

 

Having had a look at a necron codex it would seem the rule he was using for his C'tan the 'Writhing worldscape' bears no mention to open terrain being difficult terrain? It does say that to your enemy difficult will become dangerous and if it is already dangerous it will fail the test on a 1 and 2....

Mindshackle Scarabs: Yes, as said, its D3 attacks, and as you've said, its Ld3D6, one random base-to-base model.

 

As for the destroyer lord, he has to get up within 3" of where he died, and has to be 1" away from enemies, so even if you're within 3" of the dude, he can still get up.

 

As you've noted yourself, the C'tan only makes difficult terrain dangerous. The weapon you're thinking of that the necron HQ command squad used is the Tremorstave. All units hit by it treat open terrain as difficult. There is a necron special character that forces all enemy units to move through difficult terrain, but only on the first turn.

[Robert2004]

Does mindshcakle activate it every assault phase?

 

Also say I consolidate around the body where he cant get 3' away and will always be 1' to me, does that destroy the unit? 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Does mindshcakle activate it every assault phase?

 

Also say I consolidate around the body where he cant get 3' away and will always be 1' to me, does that destroy the unit? 

 

Yes, and yes.

[Robert2004]

Thanks for the answer, I still won the game by a massive margin but it was a pain to do so. Those mindshackle scarabs are well over powered then lol at the start of every assault phase, does the necron player pick who they infect or does the controlling player? 

 

Thought as much and tried to explain this to my opponent, should have pushed it harder and he wouldn't of gotten up several times!!

[Stickeh]

It's a randomly determined model in base to base contact with the model who has the mind shackle scarabs, so if his lord is on one side of the combat and your librarian on the other, he can't target the Libby.

 

With regards to the difficult terrain thing, if he had the necron HQ Orikan the Diviner then he can make your entire first turn dangerous terrain, the only other way is the aforementioned use of tremorstaves.

[Robert2004]

Yeah he definitely did not have that special character who makes first turn difficult terrain, I've spoken to him since on facebook and he has said sorry about the rules mishap. My own fault too as when something sounds too good to be true it usually is ha ha!

 

Good idea then to move in to base contact the normal marines when going into combat with someone with mind shackle scarabs to my character won't get involved. Could also use a sergeant to challenge him and take him out of the combat! Tho most of the time my assault terminators and librarian were facing him alone as I had wiped out him and his unit with my capt and his unit, they then moved on to another combat! Poor terminators were left to chase him ha ha! 

 

By the theme of this thread I managed to avoid a lot of the scarier necron units so must keep that in mind when facing them again, not to take anything for granted.

 

He is taking white scars next week, think I'll run the same list as last week as it worked well for me. I have ordered a STORMRAVEN from my local who give 20% discount (yay!) so look forward to having a nice big gunship to kill things =]

[Zombie P]

I want your local! I only get 10%.

 

It sounds like you did alright, and he was missing most of the big scary hitters from the crons. But great going! 

 

ZP

[Robert2004]

I want your local! I only get 10%.

 

It sounds like you did alright, and he was missing most of the big scary hitters from the crons. But great going! 

 

ZP

 

Ha ha yeah they are pretty handy with stuff like that, the guy who runs it called Mike is really down to earth and will order anything no matter how little or large if you ask. I had a single sternguard vet weapons sprue ordered the other week and he was fine with it, the store sells magic the gathering and loads of other gaming stuff too really cool place.

 

Gave my first tutorial of dark vengeance tonight to a few lads who said they enjoyed it so that was good for me, new experience and all that! Hope they come back and start to collect, can always use more opponents to battle! 

 

One of the lads has started to collect eldar so we will be going toe to toe in the next few weeks ha ha, should be fun!

[*Furyou Miko]

Be wary of challenging necrons - if you challenge someone with MSS and fail the test, you always hit yourself because you can't attack anyone else in the combat.

 

Yes, MSS hit automatically - you inflict D3 hits on your own unit, you don't attack it D3 times. Also, he CAN force you to activate your Force Weapon if you have any warp charge.

[Lord Commander Scrymgeour]

Good job on destroying the xenon scum.

My reg opponent uses necrons, and I've found that close combat totally totally destroys them. That being said I am a blood angels player so....... My advice.... Get a death company and call it a day

[eiglepulper]

The Necron players I know would all play their Characters with Mindshackle Scarabs because they are such a pain in the bum....the Necron characters, I mean, not the players!

 

It's good to get a definitive answer there about whether or not the MSS happens every assault phase or not because it's handy to go into battle knowing what you're likely to receive, so-to-speak.

 

E.