Rift Blade Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Hello Brothers & Sisters. Lately I've toying with a Bastion in my Wolves with the Quad gun and was wondering your thoughts on it in relation to the rest of your army. I have been putting it usually near the back of my deployment zone angled so that HB can cover at least 2 fire lanes. As well, I put a LF pack on the battlements & a small pack of GH in the Bastion itself so that the GH man the HB & the Quad Gun. I find this accomplishes several things. First, it affects my opponents deployment. They either set up at the back of theirs or get as far forward as cover allows. Second, it gives my LF's a good field of fire as well as a cover save from direct fire weapons at the at same time making my opponent a little more predictable in that they usually try to use cover to get to me. And lastly, it is one heck of a fire magnet, allowing the rest of my army to get the job done. I also believe that the rest of the army that one picks to go with the Bastion matters as well. So Brothers & Sisters, thank you in advance for your time & what our your thoughts if you don't mind sharing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I've been thinking about doing this and having a big unit of Grey hunters sitting inside until the end of the game to jump out and grab an objective. The fact that it's a cheap immobile Raider without the heavy weaponry is appealing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3385914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 I thought about putting a bigger unit of GH in it but 5 seems to be working. They 're cheap for a unit that will just sit there most of the game & like you said, at the end jump out & grab an objective. Having them man the HB's & the Quad Gun let's them be useful. Last game I even proxied a second HB on the front in place of the one on the rear. I got to fire 2 HB's & the Quad gun at a Chaplain led assault unit dropped off by a Storm Raven( I used the Quad gun to take down the 2 Storm Talon's he also had). And even using the Quad Gun with Interceptor, you still get to fire the HB's on your turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I thought about putting a bigger unit of GH in it but 5 seems to be working. They 're cheap for a unit that will just sit there most of the game & like you said, at the end jump out & grab an objective. Having them man the HB's & the Quad Gun let's them be useful. Last game I even proxied a second HB on the front in place of the one on the rear. I got to fire 2 HB's & the Quad gun at a Chaplain led assault unit dropped off by a Storm Raven( I used the Quad gun to take down the 2 Storm Talon's he also had). And even using the Quad Gun with Interceptor, you still get to fire the HB's on your turn. Does your local Meta use Helldrakes or any AP3 templates because if they do, those 5 guys are toast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I thought about putting a bigger unit of GH in it but 5 seems to be working. They 're cheap for a unit that will just sit there most of the game & like you said, at the end jump out & grab an objective. Having them man the HB's & the Quad Gun let's them be useful. Last game I even proxied a second HB on the front in place of the one on the rear. I got to fire 2 HB's & the Quad gun at a Chaplain led assault unit dropped off by a Storm Raven( I used the Quad gun to take down the 2 Storm Talon's he also had). And even using the Quad Gun with Interceptor, you still get to fire the HB's on your turn. Does your local Meta use Helldrakes or any AP3 templates because if they do, those 5 guys are toast. Simple solution - don't model your bastion with any Fire Points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I thought about putting a bigger unit of GH in it but 5 seems to be working. They 're cheap for a unit that will just sit there most of the game & like you said, at the end jump out & grab an objective. Having them man the HB's & the Quad Gun let's them be useful. Last game I even proxied a second HB on the front in place of the one on the rear. I got to fire 2 HB's & the Quad gun at a Chaplain led assault unit dropped off by a Storm Raven( I used the Quad gun to take down the 2 Storm Talon's he also had). And even using the Quad Gun with Interceptor, you still get to fire the HB's on your turn. Does your local Meta use Helldrakes or any AP3 templates because if they do, those 5 guys are toast. Simple solution - don't model your bastion with any Fire Points. Template cause D6 auto hits to the unit inside. Always, regardless of any fire points. Pg 94 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Very few Hell Chickens surprisingly. But now that you mention it I'll have to read up on those rules & see. I'm sure I'll see more as time goes on & I may as well figure out a plan to deal with the bloody things. We have a couple of Chaos players here so I'm sure I can get a couple of games in against a Hell Chicken if I ask. Thanks for the input so far everyone & I'm open to more if somebody else has anything to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn33r Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 What's the points cost?.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I thought about putting a bigger unit of GH in it but 5 seems to be working. They 're cheap for a unit that will just sit there most of the game & like you said, at the end jump out & grab an objective. Having them man the HB's & the Quad Gun let's them be useful. Last game I even proxied a second HB on the front in place of the one on the rear. I got to fire 2 HB's & the Quad gun at a Chaplain led assault unit dropped off by a Storm Raven( I used the Quad gun to take down the 2 Storm Talon's he also had). And even using the Quad Gun with Interceptor, you still get to fire the HB's on your turn. Does your local Meta use Helldrakes or any AP3 templates because if they do, those 5 guys are toast. Simple solution - don't model your bastion with any Fire Points. Template cause D6 auto hits to the unit inside. Always, regardless of any fire points. Pg 94 Incorrect. "Template Weapons Template weapons, such as flamers, are designed to attack enemies that are hidden behind defensive terrain, and can attack models even if they are inside a building. To represent this, if one or more of the Fire Points on a building fall under a template, the unit occupying the building suffers D6 hits from the Template weapon. The building itself also suffers one hit, as normal", BRB, pg.94 The unit in a building are only affected if a buildings Fire Point falls under the template of the attack. If the building has no Fire Points, the unit can not be flamed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I didn't know you could close the fire points on the bastion. I guess it makes sense. I may get one now because of that. As always DS, your advice is stellar. Is it better to use the quad gun or icaris? Most people seem to favor the quad, but the range on the icaris is nice and its cheaper. Any advice on this would be helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I didn't know you could close the fire points on the bastion. I guess it makes sense. I may get one now because of that. As always DS, your advice is stellar. Is it better to use the quad gun or icaris? Most people seem to favor the quad, but the range on the icaris is nice and its cheaper. Any advice on this would be helpful. Thanks. On the issue of Bastions and Fire Points: the profile in the BRB says "Fire Points: As per Model". So long as you're willing to take the disadvantages of no Fire Points as well as the advantage, it's all in how you model it. As for the Icarus vs Quadgun, I prefer the Quadgun for it's improved utility against most Flyers. But the Icarus does have certain benefits (ie, range, one-shot kills vs AV12 Flyers) that you might prefer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Yes , I've only used the Quad gun simply because of the extra shots over the Icarus. Most of the flyers here are low AV & I shoot as much at ground targets as I do airborne ones. @ dswanick, as always, thanks. I will definitly consider removing the fire points. Using only 5 GH's inside means one for each HB & one for the Quad Gun so why not? LOL!! The last game I played was against a Marine player who brought 2 Storm Talons & a Storm Raven. Used the Quad on the 2 Storm Talons & by that time the Storm Raven was in hover mode dropping stuff off so the LF took it out. THe Icarus would have been nice then to try & pop it before stuff got out but thought it would have been more reliable to take the easier targets of the Storm Talons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I didn't know you could close the fire points on the bastion. I guess it makes sense. I may get one now because of that. As always DS, your advice is stellar. Is it better to use the quad gun or icaris? Most people seem to favor the quad, but the range on the icaris is nice and its cheaper. Any advice on this would be helpful. Thanks. On the issue of Bastions and Fire Points: the profile in the BRB says "Fire Points: As per Model". So long as you're willing to take the disadvantages of no Fire Points as well as the advantage, it's all in how you model it. As for the Icarus vs Quadgun, I prefer the Quadgun for it's improved utility against most Flyers. But the Icarus does have certain benefits (ie, range, one-shot kills vs AV12 Flyers) that you might prefer. I stand corrected then. Thanks DS. >=] Time to go get a Bastion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 isn't this modeling for advantage since the official model actually does come with the fire points? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khine Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 isn't this modeling for advantage since the official model actually does come with the fire points? It is if you use the official Bastion and would more than likely make the model look odd. Fire points at the base of the model would be tricky to get rid of. If you are custom building a Bastion, not using the main body of the Bastion, then no i wouldn't consider it modelling to advantage as long as it made sense. Ie A bunker inside of a mountain with a roof/emplacement on top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 isn't this modeling for advantage since the official model actually does come with the fire points? No, because there are disadvantages to a Bastion with no Fire Points. And i play it consistently, even when i would prefer it had them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Silly question for everyone. I thought templates could only target one level of a bldg. Is not the Bastion a 3 lvl bldg ? I don't have my rule book handy. I know this was talked about in another thread recently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Silly question for everyone. I thought templates could only target one level of a bldg. Is not the Bastion a 3 lvl bldg ? I don't have my rule book handy. I know this was talked about in another thread recently. Doesn't matter. A Bastion is a medium building. It can have one unit embarked. If it has Fire Points, those Fire Points can be used by the embarked unit to shoot from. If one of those Fire Points gets flamed, the unit suffers D6 hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276368-thoughts-on-the-bastion/#findComment-3386997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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