Space Wolves *HELP*

[Sohail187]

Hi everyone.

I am fairly new to these forums, well i only joined moments ago :)

 

Now i have a long time veteran of the 40k world, however i have been out of action for 3-4 years. With my return i have a new found love for the space wolves and need some guidance on spending my money.

 

I previously played competitively with my eldar army and wish to continue that trend with space wolves. After studying the codex i feel i need some guidance form fellow space wolve lovers.

 

I have been looking at the various army lists people post, and they are all very different. Now my own personal style of game play was to be in front of the enemy asap and to engage combat as soon as i could. Before i go buying my army i need some guidance on which units can give me this style of game play. 

Personally i was thinking wolf guards drop pods / thunderwolf calvary / grey hunters in drop pods // long fangs / aegies defence line with a quad gun / Stuck for HQ and obviously i will be taking rune priests. Any idea? and how to adapt this comp.

 

[mactire]

Sign up for the ETL before 15th the fang needs all wolf brothers to pitch in

[WolfLordSam]

The Battleforce provides a fairly decent starting point.

[Blacksad]

if you want to go combatheavy, a Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Lord with a saga of the Bear is often a good start.

 

the other HQ's that help in CC are the Wolf Priest and biomancy runepriests. with SW though, you don't really want to be the one assaulting. (expect with thunderwolf cav, and any claw unit)

 

grey hunters and Wolf Guard are better off rapid firing, overwatching, then counterattacking. (unless obviously if the opponent has furious assault)

[Sohail187]

brilliant thanks for the input. I have a query how comes people do not use blood claws, they seen like a reasonable unit?

[dswanick]

brilliant thanks for the input. I have a query how comes people do not use blood claws, they seen like a reasonable unit?

Because for the same points per model you can get a unit of Grey Hunters, who have:

- better BS, WS

- better wargear

- better options

For most people the extra +1A on the charge is not sufficient to offset all those advantages plus the Headstrong rule.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Plus the bloodclaws do best with a babysitter which is more points to spend, though some people seem to have good luck with them in lower point games. As for what to buy the battle force does get you a good amount of bits I recomend one of those and a tactical marine force or two and then you can convert and build a good start from there. Also two boxes of thunder wolves should get you a nice lord and 5 calvary to play with if that's the road you wanna go down, and as always eBay is the place for buying stuff.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

Long Fangs and Grey hunters are always a good investment, drop pod work wonders for aggresive commanders. If you want an tank to move up the board with your TWC or to support your drop pod units, I suggest a vindicator. It will draw fire away from your cavalry and when it shoots something, it dies.

 

Thunderwolf Lord is amazing as long as its a 1000+ game. I would recommend magnitizing the lord and any terminators you get to save you money and leave you options for future lists.

 

If you have players who don't mind representation armies, I would play at least 5 games with the wolves to get a feel for the units and the style as they are a vastly different army to eldar and 6th has changed a lot of things. You will never be sorry you bought grey hunters though.

[Roma]

At 1500+ mix of the following will never make a bad list, buying these units GUARANTEES bang for buck:

Rune priests (1, maybe 2)

Wolf priests (1, if taking arjac rockfist)

Grey hunters (minimum 4)

Long Fangs (always 3 imo)

 

drop pods, rhinos, and footslogging are all good.

 

Following is pure opinion and subjective: Imo, you should avoid combat lords. Our codex just doesn't have options for a genuine deathstar killer lord, and combat lords are only good by dint of being too powerful for any number of cheaper units to kill in melee. Consider, a wolf lord with necklace, thunder wolf, power fist, storm shield and wolf claw (and probably saga+necklace)-well over 250 points.

 

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well :p, leave this to chaos space marines, daemons of chaos, and tyranids. The closest viable thing i find is arjac in the same unit as a wolf priest and a wolf banner, he murders most lords and is so survivable he can tie up deathstars like thirsters for almost the whole game, and damaging them too so you can finish the job with heavy firepower before he gets back in melee.

[Roma]

Also he is cheap. You could say your paying for a wolf banner and wolf priest (which do help arjac immensely), but these also help the squad of grey hunters the are with, more than making back their points.

[Rift Blade]

Check out Valerians guide to Wolves. He has some awesome advice & has written it in one of the most unbiased formats I've seen on any forum. 

[Valerian]

Thanks for the mention, Rift Blade. Unfortunately, my Guide resided on my BnC Blog, which has been offline ever since the site upgraded to the new software (5-6 months ago?). I had posted an older version (not updated for 6e) in a thread on here years ago, though, so you might be able to dig that up.

 

V

[Sohail187]

Hey all thanks for your help. I was going through a experiment army list today and i was shocked at the cost of a wolf lord!! so ill give the Arjac a try.

Again i really appreciate the help and guidance thus far :)

[Sohail187]

this might sound stupid, however i cannot find out how far Thunderwolf calvery can move? is it 12?

[dswanick]

this might sound stupid, however i cannot find out how far Thunderwolf calvery can move? is it 12?

Cavalry rules are on pg.48.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

this might sound stupid, however i cannot find out how far Thunderwolf calvery can move? is it 12?

Yes, 12". They ignore difficult terrain, but must make a dangerous terrain test.

[Sohail187]

Ok so with all the help i have received i finally down on paper. What i will be purchasing tomorrow to kick start my SW's. I really would like some input to what i might be missing as a start, however i think i have all bases covered.

 

Listed i have:

 

Standard SW Pack 10 SW x3

rune priest x 2

devastators x 3

TWC x 1

WGT x1

wolf lord on thunderwwolf x 1

space marine commander ( to create my own wolflord ) x 1

drop pod x 3

razor backs ( i thought its worth paying the few extra £ to get the option of the razor back ) x 2

fenrisian wolf pack x 1

Aegis defence line  x 1

hyperios air defence  + command platform x 1

 

Advise before i spend my hard earnt money would be great! as it might be a few months before i can add to this.

[dswanick]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

[Ghostwolfalpha]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

I have put down a bloodthirster with that very same lord except he had a frostblade. The biggest weakness of the Bloodthirster is overconfidence. They think they can kill anything, so my lord fixed that delusion.

[Roma]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

You: 6 attacks (7 on the first round) assuming you bought all the gear. hitting on 4+, 3/4 hits, 2/3 wounds

Initiative 1.

Bloodthirster: t6, 5 w, 3+/5+

He has 7 attacks on the charge (flying creature). ws 10 vs your ws 5 (hitting on 2+), s 6 (wounding on3+, 2+ on the charge because of furious charge). Rolls to wound of 6 cause instant death.

Rewards for 20 points include 4+ feel no pain, rerolling failed invuls, +1 wound and it will not die, arourbane+flesh bane. You roll a d6 and get the corresponding one, those are the best, there are 2 more (one decent one useless).

..............

He is cheaper, killier, faster and more survivable on his own, and he flies. If you try to get things like saga of the bear, he can start rolling those rewards at 10, 20, and 30p (depending on the quality), with a maximum allowance of 50.

[Roma]

Ok so with all the help i have received i finally down on paper. What i will be purchasing tomorrow to kick start my SW's. I really would like some input to what i might be missing as a start, however i think i have all bases covered.

 

Listed i have:

 

Standard SW Pack 10 SW x3

rune priest x 2

devastators x 3

TWC x 1

WGT x1

wolf lord on thunderwwolf x 1

space marine commander ( to create my own wolflord ) x 1

drop pod x 3

razor backs ( i thought its worth paying the few extra £ to get the option of the razor back ) x 2

fenrisian wolf pack x 1

Aegis defence line  x 1

hyperios air defence  + command platform x 1

 

Advise before i spend my hard earnt money would be great! as it might be a few months before i can add to this.

 

-Looking at the amount of stuff (seemingly 1500+ points), I STRONGLY suggest another 20 grey hunters, 30 is waay too little at anything above 1000p, you can get cheap DV tactical marines for 10 euro on ebay, and wolf them up.

-I wouldnt bother with the fenrisian wolves, especially in a non-dedicated list and in that number.

-I would go with either everything in a rhino or everything in a pod. A pod/rhino for every one of your grey hunter squads, and if going the rhino route a razorback for every long fang squad too.

 

This will be plenty to work with, so you can drop fun stuff like anything on a thunder wolf and the space marine commander (wold lord not on a thunderwolf is kinda useless). They are fun, but you dont really need them with all that other stuff, so if you want to save money, drop them, or some of them.

[dswanick]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

You: 6 attacks (7 on the first round) assuming you bought all the gear. hitting on 4+, 3/4 hits, 2/3 wounds

Initiative 1.

Bloodthirster: t6, 5 w, 3+/5+

He has 7 attacks on the charge (flying creature). ws 10 vs your ws 5 (hitting on 2+), s 6 (wounding on3+, 2+ on the charge because of furious charge). Rolls to wound of 6 cause instant death.

Rewards for 20 points include 4+ feel no pain, rerolling failed invuls, +1 wound and it will not die, arourbane+flesh bane. You roll a d6 and get the corresponding one, those are the best, there are 2 more (one decent one useless).

..............

He is cheaper, killier, faster and more survivable on his own, and he flies. If you try to get things like saga of the bear, he can start rolling those rewards at 10, 20, and 30p (depending on the quality), with a maximum allowance of 50.

Incorrect on several points. First, compare two similarly points costed models : Bloodthirster (270pts with one Greater or two Lesser Rewards) vs Thunderwolf Lord (270pts with Runic Armor, Thunderhammer, Stormshield, Wolftooth Necklace, and Saga of the Bear). You tell me which Reward(s) would be game changing, but I'll still remind you that they are random and not guaranteed.

Next:

- I'll give him the Charge bonus because a> he's a FMC and will likely get the charge anyway, and b> the TWL has Counter-attack @ Ld10.

- The Bloodthirster will always hit first.

- Each one is hitting the other on a 3+ (WS10 v WS6 for the Bloodthirster, and Woolftooth Necklace for the TWL).

- The Bloodthirster is wounding on a 2+ only for the first round of combat (S7 v T5), thereafter he is wounding on a 3+(S6 v T5) unless he uses Smash (reducing his # of Attacks) or a Reward. Meanwhile the TWL is always wounding on a 2+ (S10 v T6) and ignores Instant Death due to Saga of the Bear.

- Against the TWL's Thunderhammer the Bloodthirster gets a 5+ Inv save (unless he has a Reward). But the TWL is getting a 3+ Inv save from his Storm Shield.

At 270pts @, the Bloodthirster will be doing .888 wounds/turn while the TWL will be doing 1.85 wounds/turn. So unless he gets some lucky Rewards to save his bacon, the Bloodthirster is usually going down first.

[Roma]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

You: 6 attacks (7 on the first round) assuming you bought all the gear. hitting on 4+, 3/4 hits, 2/3 wounds

Initiative 1.

Bloodthirster: t6, 5 w, 3+/5+

He has 7 attacks on the charge (flying creature). ws 10 vs your ws 5 (hitting on 2+), s 6 (wounding on3+, 2+ on the charge because of furious charge). Rolls to wound of 6 cause instant death.

Rewards for 20 points include 4+ feel no pain, rerolling failed invuls, +1 wound and it will not die, arourbane+flesh bane. You roll a d6 and get the corresponding one, those are the best, there are 2 more (one decent one useless).

..............

He is cheaper, killier, faster and more survivable on his own, and he flies. If you try to get things like saga of the bear, he can start rolling those rewards at 10, 20, and 30p (depending on the quality), with a maximum allowance of 50.

Incorrect on several points. First, compare two similarly points costed models : Bloodthirster (270pts with one Greater or two Lesser Rewards) vs Thunderwolf Lord (270pts with Runic Armor, Thunderhammer, Stormshield, Wolftooth Necklace, and Saga of the Bear). You tell me which Reward(s) would be game changing, but I'll still remind you that they are random and not guaranteed.

Next:

- I'll give him the Charge bonus because a> he's a FMC and will likely get the charge anyway, and b> the TWL has Counter-attack @ Ld10.

- The Bloodthirster will always hit first.

- Each one is hitting the other on a 3+ (WS10 v WS6 for the Bloodthirster, and Woolftooth Necklace for the TWL).

- The Bloodthirster is wounding on a 2+ only for the first round of combat (S7 v T5), thereafter he is wounding on a 3+(S6 v T5) unless he uses Smash (reducing his # of Attacks) or a Reward. Meanwhile the TWL is always wounding on a 2+ (S10 v T6).

- Against the TWL's Thunderhammer the Bloodthirster gets a 5+ Inv save (unless he has a Reward). But the TWL is getting a 3+ Inv save from his Storm Shield.

At 270pts @, the Bloodthirster will be doing .888 wounds/turn while the TWL will be doing 1.85 wounds/turn. So unless he gets some lucky Rewards to save his bacon, the Bloodthirster is usually going down first.

I didnt consider the necklace, but then again i didnt think anyone would take it often as it is useful in limited situations. Same with saga of the bear, also wolf claw is often taken with hammer in all-comers.

The bloodthirster has a good chance of getting those rewards (4 out of 7, and for +10 points more he can have 2 rolls), any one of them will quickly tip the scale.

the bloodthirster has 5 wounds, even though you do more damage, also he is higher I, so on the final round he might kill you before you strike back

The wargear is somewhat orientated vs bloodthirsters (necklace-on a ws 5 model. SOTB on a t5 model, thunder hammer and no wolf claw-on a model that should crunch rank-and file too since it is too expensive to be orientated vs mosnter/characters).

[Sohail187]

 

Ok so with all the help i have received i finally down on paper. What i will be purchasing tomorrow to kick start my SW's. I really would like some input to what i might be missing as a start, however i think i have all bases covered.

 

Listed i have:

 

Standard SW Pack 10 SW x3

rune priest x 2

devastators x 3

TWC x 1

WGT x1

wolf lord on thunderwwolf x 1

space marine commander ( to create my own wolflord ) x 1

drop pod x 3

razor backs ( i thought its worth paying the few extra £ to get the option of the razor back ) x 2

fenrisian wolf pack x 1

Aegis defence line  x 1

hyperios air defence  + command platform x 1

 

Advise before i spend my hard earnt money would be great! as it might be a few months before i can add to this.

 

-Looking at the amount of stuff (seemingly 1500+ points), I STRONGLY suggest another 20 grey hunters, 30 is waay too little at anything above 1000p, you can get cheap DV tactical marines for 10 euro on ebay, and wolf them up.

-I wouldnt bother with the fenrisian wolves, especially in a non-dedicated list and in that number.

-I would go with either everything in a rhino or everything in a pod. A pod/rhino for every one of your grey hunter squads, and if going the rhino route a razorback for every long fang squad too.

 

This will be plenty to work with, so you can drop fun stuff like anything on a thunder wolf and the space marine commander (wold lord not on a thunderwolf is kinda useless). They are fun, but you dont really need them with all that other stuff, so if you want to save money, drop them, or some of them.

Roma thank you for your import much appreciated. I dropped the commander and fenrisian wolfs and added 2 more packs of GH.

 

I am only half way through the new 6th edition rule back. Now i mention this becuase you said i should have long fangs in razor backs. Do razor backs count as open top? and can units shoot our of the razor backs if it has moved? its like 2 units or something? but what if they have heavy weapons. please advise.

 

Also what about land speeders.

[Roma]

-Razorback is not open-topped

-The razorback has no fire points, they cant shoot out of it (rhinos have 2 fire points).

-They can shoot the turn the disenbark from a razorback that has moved, but they snap-fire (hitting on sixes, since they have moved and shoot a heavy weapon). Since they are snap firing they cant fire blast weapons (like missile launcher frag shells) but can shoot krak shells.

 

Long fangs wouldnt normally deploy in a razorback, just put them in a ruin. The razorback is there to add a bit of firepower/draw fire away from your rhinos for the crucial first turn move+ smoke launchers. Since the wont be transporting long fangs often, you can use them to carry a GH squad that had their rhino popped+are down to 6 models.

Dont have my rulebook on me, do the LF have to start the game in their dedicated razorback, or can they deploy seperately? If they cant forget about buying it for them, since they will lose a turn to get out and start firing, and wont be in a ruin.