Space Wolves *HELP*

[Sohail187]

Dedicated transport and that unit are as 1 from my understanding. However I was buying razor backs to use are rhino's in the first place and having the possibility to use them as razorbacks if need be.

[dswanick]

Roma, on 04 Jun 2013 - 15:05, said:

The bloodthirster has a good chance of getting those rewards (4 out of 7, and for +10 points more he can have 2 rolls), any one of them will quickly tip the scale.

the bloodthirster has 5 wounds, even though you do more damage, also he is higher I, so on the final round he might kill you before you strike back

The wargear is somewhat orientated vs bloodthirsters (necklace-on a ws 5 model. SOTB on a t5 model, thunder hammer and no wolf claw-on a model that should crunch rank-and file too since it is too expensive to be orientated vs mosnter/characters).

1. I'm not intimately familiar with the Rewards system, but isn't it 1 roll per Reward purchased? So the Bloodthirster would only have 1 or 2 rolls based on which table he bought from?

2. The Bloodthirster will only have a higher I until he takes an unsaved wound from the Thunderhammer. Then he's I1 just like the TWL. Further, statistically the TWL will last a full round longer than the above math-hammered Bloodthirster, so a few unlucky breaks of the dice or a single good Reward probably won't sink the TWL's chances.

3. This wargear is pretty standard, in my experience. The Wolftooth Necklace is a must-take on any CC-oriented C:SW character. No one I know would pair a Wolf Claw with a Thunderhammer. With a Powerfist, maybe. But not a Thunderhammer.

4. Against any army that does CC well (and will likely field CC Death Stars), the rest of your army is for crunching rank-and-file. The TWL is your go-to Monsterslayer. Arming him to kill weenies is counter-productive and redundant.

[dswanick]

Roma, on 04 Jun 2013 - 15:32, said:

-They can shoot the turn the disenbark from a razorback that has moved, but they snap-fire

Not necessarily. They only count as having Moved. They will only make Snap Shots with Heavy weapons.

[Roma]

Roma, on 04 Jun 2013 - 15:05, said:

The bloodthirster has a good chance of getting those rewards (4 out of 7, and for +10 points more he can have 2 rolls), any one of them will quickly tip the scale.

the bloodthirster has 5 wounds, even though you do more damage, also he is higher I, so on the final round he might kill you before you strike back

The wargear is somewhat orientated vs bloodthirsters (necklace-on a ws 5 model. SOTB on a t5 model, thunder hammer and no wolf claw-on a model that should crunch rank-and file too since it is too expensive to be orientated vs mosnter/characters).

1. I'm not intimately familiar with the Rewards system, but isn't it 1 roll per Reward purchased? So the Bloodthirster would only have 1 or 2 rolls based on which table he bought from?

2. The Bloodthirster will only have a higher I until he takes an unsaved wound from the Thunderhammer. Then he's I1 just like the TWL. Further, statistically the TWL will last a full round longer than the above math-hammered Bloodthirster, so a few unlucky breaks of the dice or a single good Reward probably won't sink the TWL's chances.

3. This wargear is pretty standard, in my experience. The Wolftooth Necklace is a must-take on any CC-oriented C:SW character. No one I know would pair a Wolf Claw with a Thunderhammer. With a Powerfist, maybe. But not a Thunderhammer.

4. Against any army that does CC well (and will likely field CC Death Stars), the rest of your army is for crunching rank-and-file. The TWL is your go-to Monsterslayer. Arming him to kill weenies is counter-productive and redundant.

yeah one roll one the greater reward chart is 20 points. Thats 10p left. For another 10p more than the WL he gets another roll is what I meant.

I have had a closer look and the chart of greater rewards is as follows:

the chart is as follows:

0-a blade of blood (ap2, unwieldy, gives rampage, has decacipating strike), is a specialist weapon so +1 attack since the BT has a specialist axe

zero is like a "primaris" roll, you can swap any 1-6 roll for this

1-+1 wound, it will not die

2-FNP 4+

3-rerolls failed invuls

4-rng 18, s8 ap1 lance attack

5-armourbane+fleshbane

6-3+ armour (useless, but can be swapped for 0)

Wether or not that gives the bloodthirster a lead, ill leave to your mathhammer. spending 270p on a pure anti-character without spending 10/20 (cant remember) on a wolf claw should there be an absence of such units is very risky. SOTB is situational. Then theres the whole fact of needing a retinue for the wolf lord, the fact he doesnt fly, etc. No point playing my monster is bigger than yours with the variety of great cheap units we have IMO, I never buy tooled lords and I STILL need more points for more GH/LF 90% of the time

p.s what does rampage do, no rulebook -.-

[Sohail187]

RAMPaGE

 

"At the start of any Fight sub-phase,
models with the Rampage special
rule gain +D3Attacks if the combat
they are in contains more enemy
models than friendly models - count
all models in all units locked in the
combat, not just those models that are
engaged. Calculate each rampaging
model's bonus Attacks separately. A
model that has made a disordered
charge that turn receives no benefit
from Rampage (see page 27)."

 

Btw your opinion on land speeders, deep striking down or even being deployed?

[Ghostwolfalpha]

However he will be eaten by say, a loodthirster who in comparison is an actual deathstar who does his job of being indestructible in melee and survival enough to get there without getting killed, and killy enough to make his points back. I conclude our codex doesn't do killer lords well ,

I think you're underestimating C:SW. A Thunderwolf Lord with RA, TH/SS, WTK, and SotB seems capable of eating a Bloodthirster.

You: 6 attacks (7 on the first round) assuming you bought all the gear. hitting on 4+, 3/4 hits, 2/3 wounds

Initiative 1.

Bloodthirster: t6, 5 w, 3+/5+

He has 7 attacks on the charge (flying creature). ws 10 vs your ws 5 (hitting on 2+), s 6 (wounding on3+, 2+ on the charge because of furious charge). Rolls to wound of 6 cause instant death.

Rewards for 20 points include 4+ feel no pain, rerolling failed invuls, +1 wound and it will not die, arourbane+flesh bane. You roll a d6 and get the corresponding one, those are the best, there are 2 more (one decent one useless).

..............

He is cheaper, killier, faster and more survivable on his own, and he flies. If you try to get things like saga of the bear, he can start rolling those rewards at 10, 20, and 30p (depending on the quality), with a maximum allowance of 50.

Incorrect on several points. First, compare two similarly points costed models : Bloodthirster (270pts with one Greater or two Lesser Rewards) vs Thunderwolf Lord (270pts with Runic Armor, Thunderhammer, Stormshield, Wolftooth Necklace, and Saga of the Bear). You tell me which Reward(s) would be game changing, but I'll still remind you that they are random and not guaranteed.

Next:

- I'll give him the Charge bonus because a> he's a FMC and will likely get the charge anyway, and b> the TWL has Counter-attack @ Ld10.

- The Bloodthirster will always hit first.

- Each one is hitting the other on a 3+ (WS10 v WS6 for the Bloodthirster, and Woolftooth Necklace for the TWL).

- The Bloodthirster is wounding on a 2+ only for the first round of combat (S7 v T5), thereafter he is wounding on a 3+(S6 v T5) unless he uses Smash (reducing his # of Attacks) or a Reward. Meanwhile the TWL is always wounding on a 2+ (S10 v T6).

- Against the TWL's Thunderhammer the Bloodthirster gets a 5+ Inv save (unless he has a Reward). But the TWL is getting a 3+ Inv save from his Storm Shield.

At 270pts @, the Bloodthirster will be doing .888 wounds/turn while the TWL will be doing 1.85 wounds/turn. So unless he gets some lucky Rewards to save his bacon, the Bloodthirster is usually going down first.

I didnt consider the necklace, but then again i didnt think anyone would take it often as it is useful in limited situations. Same with saga of the bear, also wolf claw is often taken with hammer in all-comers.

The bloodthirster has a good chance of getting those rewards (4 out of 7, and for +10 points more he can have 2 rolls), any one of them will quickly tip the scale.

the bloodthirster has 5 wounds, even though you do more damage, also he is higher I, so on the final round he might kill you before you strike back

The wargear is somewhat orientated vs bloodthirsters (necklace-on a ws 5 model. SOTB on a t5 model, thunder hammer and no wolf claw-on a model that should crunch rank-and file too since it is too expensive to be orientated vs mosnter/characters).

If he takes a wound he is at Initiative 1 from the hammer, and will most likely take at least one every round. His WS is 6 not that it matters much in this instance and it supports your argument. Saga of the Bear is a lot more useful then you make it sound. There are a lot of s10 weapons out there and a decent amount of instantkill stuff. With all the gaint monsters that have been in lists lately, it is a decent investment if your local meta has any daemons, CSM, Tau, now eldar, and other Space marines. I am looking forward to killing a wraithknight with my Thunderwolf Lord just to see the look on my opponents face when his redwood of a model comes crashing down.

I agree that the build is tailored more toward monsterhunting, but the Hammer/wolf claw/belt of russ combo is only slightly less survivable, but has an extra attack. Plus, the lord can join a unit of extra wounds which can give rerolls should they survive till cc. (Fenrisian wolves) Of course this is if he challenges.

The problem is we are compairing potatoes to tomatoes.

[skeletoro]

For what it's worth, a 4++ is a LOT less survivable (when used) than a 3++. Against many melee powerhouses, it could easily make the difference in a duel. Forced to make 6 invulnerable saves before striking? You're likely to take about 3 wounds with a 4++, but with a 3++, you're likely to take about 2 (it would take 9 rolls to expect to fail 3).

[Roma]

For what it's worth, a 4++ is a LOT less survivable (when used) than a 3++. Against many melee powerhouses, it could easily make the difference in a duel. Forced to make 6 invulnerable saves before striking? You're likely to take about 3 wounds with a 4++, but with a 3++, you're likely to take about 2 (it would take 9 rolls to expect to fail 3).

No idea what you are on about

BT is 3+5+ if thats who you are talking about.

3+/5++/4+++ if he rolls super FnP

3+/3++ effectively if he rolls reroll invuls

[skeletoro]

Ghostwolfalpha's post above mine. "Only slightly less survivable"

[Ghostwolfalpha]

I ment the belt vs the shield.

[Roma]

4+ when you can 3+, you mad bro?

[SW1]

So are you going to joint the wolves in the ETL painting comp?

 

You've got till the 15th to join up and any support you can give the wolves would really help!!!  ;)

[Sohail187]

id love to, but i only ordered my entire space wolve army online yesterday! by the time it gets to me and i even get time to put this together! it will pass :(

[SW1]

You just need to make a 1st pledge by the 15th of June to be included in the challenge and you have until the 15th of August to complete it.

 

So there's loads of time for you to complete it.  What have you ordered?  Is there a unit or character which you know the load out you'll be taking.  Just make a small pledge by the 15th of this month.  You'll then have till the 15th of August to complete that pledge.  If you complete it quick then you have the opportunity to make up to another 4 additional pledges.

 

:P

[Sohail187]

ah i thought you meant the 15 of this month to complete it all :D hehe.

 

So obviously i already have the codex + rulebook.

x5 space wolves marine packs

x1 TWC

x1 wolf lord on thunder wolf

X1 WG terminators 

x2 RUne priests

x3 space marine devastators

x2 sw accessories frame

x3 drop pod

x1 carry case

x3 land speeders 

x3 razor backs

x2 hyperios air defence and x1 command relay

 

That should keep me busy. 

[SW1]

ah i thought you meant the 15 of this month to complete it all hehe.

So obviously i already have the codex + rulebook.

x5 space wolves marine packs

x1 TWC

x1 wolf lord on thunder wolf

X1 WG terminators

x2 RUne priests

x3 space marine devastators

x2 sw accessories frame

x3 drop pod

x1 carry case

x3 land speeders

x3 razor backs

x2 hyperios air defence and x1 command relay

That should keep me busy.

Well I spot some really big points value options there ... Just pledging the "2x Rune Priests and Lord on TW" will net you a good 400 points.

I'd split what you are getting into smaller pledges rather than all in 1 go as if you don't complete part of a vow, we don't get any of the points you have already painted.

I'm going to nail all my high points value characters first, then the wolf guard and then whatever else I can fit in depending on how long I have left to complete further vows. :)

I look forward to seeing your 1st vow.

Also even if you don't plan on running wolf tail talismans and wolf tooth necklaces on your characters "if" the models happen to have them on the models then include it in your vow as it's additional points for no additional effort. Also you can easily kitbash characters from the plastics really easily. So Lukas and Arjac can be made without paying for the models in £. I've converted both of these for my army.

Another thing that can be kitbashed are Wolf Priests just take a thunder hammer head off and replace with the winged icon you get to act as unit standards in the pack kit.

[Sohail187]

tbh with you my converting skills have never been great. So i have kind of stayed away from doing this. I really like the idea of having a wolf lord but they are so costly in points it is just insane. The unit just looks so good i had to get one :D

[SW1]

If you want to convert something I'm sure we can give you a step by step guide.  It's literally chopping a bit of plastic off the end of something and gluing a different bit on.  These plastic kits are so much easier to play about with than trying to convert the old metal kits!!!

[Sohail187]

What tool do you use to cut the plastic. 

Btw wolf scouts a good investment? in your opinion and what is your thoughts on land speeders.

[Russ Brother 92]

for cutting plastic and resin/finecast for that matter it's just the regular model/wire clippers, GW sell em as do many other (cheaper) places - most DIY/Hardware shops sell them :)

Wolf Scouts can be very good, we get BS4 scouts compared to other armies having BS3 (ours are full space marines they just prefer being stealthy), so good with Sniper Rifles, or using the Behind Enemy Lines (BEL) give them plasma weapons or melta and turn up behind your foes, kill things and take the attention away from the rest of your army.

Land Speeders - I don't have any myself, purely as I run a purist footslogging/podding army rather'n any lack of tactics, as I'm sure SW1 and Valerian among others will tell you they can be a great force multiplier, they have 2 heavy weapons, can have up to 3 per pack (so if you really wanted to you could have 9 in your force) the variety of weaponry means that can be tooled against nearly any foe and are fast enough to slip out of enemy gun range - the only real downside is that they're very lightly armoured, you don't want them in a protracted fire fight against anything better than lasguns as they'll go down pretty quick.
 

[Sohail187]

My aim is to be in teh face of the enemy ASAP if possible in turn 1 using all the tools we have. Whilst doing this i wanted to use fangs to focus the big stuff, and a pack of landspeeders to reduce infantry to reduce incoming fire and even take the attention away from my units. 

[Roma]

One thing, unless you like the models you don't really need the 2 Rune priests, as you will have plenty of bitz to make them with. Another thing is with the grey hunter boxes if you get a few extra bits online you can get 2 more per box (so 10 more total).

 

Google and see. P.s. I would either ditch the razorbacks/rhinos to get more drop pods, or ditch the drop pods to get more rhinos.

[Russ Brother 92]

Aye as others have mentioned - unless you're getting it cut price (aka ebay/amazon or off a friend) don't buy Rhino's - buy a Razorback, they cost the same and if you don't glue the weapon hatch on you have both a Rhino and Razorback :)

Also with the suggestion about the RPs (Rune Priests) I wouldn't personally buy the actual models (barring for Njal as I like it haha) as we can kit-bash near enough all of our generic HQs from the basic 'pack' box :)
 

[Roma]

P.s. Scouts:you don't need them. They are a decent unit but you already have plenty to work with.

 

P.p.s long fangs don't have to start in the razorback, so i second my comment "if taking rhinos take razorbacks too".

[Sohail187]

Only if i knew you would make wolf priests from all the bits you get in other boxes :( would have saved me £24 !! could have got another drop pod or more gh! SO from what you are saying. I should either go ALL drop pod or all rhino? If that is the case ill invest asap in more drop pods as i see this to be the better option. And just using the razor backs i ordered for my long fangs if i ever need to.