Deathwing; Current Meta

[Master Avoghai]

I see your point about the circular arguing. And honestly about 2 pages ago I've felt that. So with that said I'm going to do the agree to disagree thing and drop it.

I'm sure both sides are tired saying the same thing over and over

But actually I don't think we disagree... Just saying the same thing differently...

[Garath]

  I'd like to comment on DW (and the forementioned 2 LRC list) instead of talking about Tau and Eldar and Emperor knows what...

 

  March10k is onto something here folks. That list can play more then one stlye . The "in yo face" approach has been discussed.  Providing this list deals with all LR killing weapons- none can stop it.

 

   I would be reluctant to claim Tau, or Eldar - or any other army are a "hard counter" to this list.  It serves us no purpose to talk about the meta game - when we are all in fact claiming that a "certain,large quantity of people that We've never met or played against are using models that work against our models by default"  

 

  This discussion is a very good read- but perhaps we could try taking a different approach to it- instead of arguing that  (Tau,Necrons,Orks) would do well/bad against this list (or DW as such) it would be more fruitful  to talk about tricks we might use to our advantage.

 

  So my suggestion for this list would be:

 

  Belial with DW command, Dakka banner  in LRC

 

  LRC with Herminators and a CML

 

  Librarian on bike with PFG

 

 

 Now adding a Mortis with  2 TLLC  ,or a Venerable with 2 Heavy flamers in a Lucious pattern drop pod.  How's that for a surprise? 

 

 

 The rest of the list are naturally ,  terminators.

 

 

   Why Mortis?

 

  To deal with all sorts of heavy targets that can reliably take down LRC.

 

 Venerable in LPDP even more so....especially if his targets lack meltaguns for overwatch or interceptor. 

   If they do have it then that dictates a different drop vector (and nothing else is safe)- if they don't-  First Blood.

 

  In fact, a lot of dangerous units look a lot less scary if flamed and charged by a dread.  Even Nob bikers are toast (pun intended) since Dread can land in front of the PK wielding NOB and when he flames them - the PK is the first to go.

 

  After that, each hit will most likely be a kill- they get a 5++ only.  Nothing to write home about.

[[TA]Typher]

LOL sorry for re-starting this @#$! Storm guys.

 

My point about Orks wasn't suppose to be as negative as it was taken. I think the DW can win against them. My point however was that you have to take DWK if you know the Ork player has Nob bikers. Statistically decked out nob bikers will constantly beat DW terms.

 

They Hit on 3s wounding on 2s and only giving you a 5+ invuln save VS our hitting on 4s wounding on 2s and they get a 5+ invuln AND a 5+ FNP AND they have 2 wounds. Not to mention they have 3 base attacks as opposed to our 2.

 

Winning against a list with Nob bikers usually (at least in my experience) means that your DWK need to engage the bikers or it's probably going to be a loss. Having them eat up your scoring units hurts. That was my point about Orks anyway.

 

 

As for the Tau part. There is a lot of Tau players in my local game store. You really haven't experienced the weaknesses of a DW list until you have been brutalized by markerlights and firewarriors. I'd like to agree with you about LOS cover, but the fact is that it isn't always an option. Every tourney I've seen usually has sparse LOS terrain. Plus Tau cam move and still fire, which means that any LOS terrain has to be large enouhgh to hide a unit (or units) from several positions at once. I like the two landraider idea and think it has serious merit, but I'd really like to see a batrep VS tau using it.

 

I've put several battle reports up. I'd like to see batreps from some of the people here when playing their DW. I'm not a pro player, but if you guys are to the level of competing and ranking in tourneys with DW I'd like to see how you are doing it. The last tourney I watched the DW player (who was a veteran) come in dead last. He could have had a bad day, or unlucky dice, but after watching all of his matches I would think it's the current meta.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing some peoples all comers lists. I can't imagine everyone here runs pure DW.

 

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

 

P.S. Hey elphilo you must play against similar people as me. Every time I read one of your posts I can see exactly how it relates to my play style and local player meta. Keep it up. I enjoy reading your posts.

[Garath]

    One of my armies are Orks.  I do own Nob bikers and they are a ...good unit.  Haven't fielded them many times- mainly because everone knows what they can do so when it comes to dedicating enormous quantities of firepower onto a single target...when people see them there tends to be little holding back.

  Plus, even with T 5 when pieplates start falling they go down faster then you'd think.

 

 

  5 of them cost around 330 pts with DOK, PK, Waagh banner, Cybork bodies etc. With a Warboss we are talking around 500 pts. They don't ignore saves-only the ones with PKs do.  There are , however only 1-2 of them in the squad.  If the sqaud is packing more , their price starts to skyrocket very,very fast.

 

 Thunderhammer terninators are indeed weak against them.  The best unit to deal with them in DA codex are...not DK.  Dark knights ARE the best unit against them.  First they lower Nobs T to 4- then they shoot with plasma - and then everybody else joins the party.

 

  But, let's talk strictly DW.  Lightning claw termaintors have a fighting chance

 

  Venerable in a lucius drop pod will tear them a new one (but will get creamed by the boss)

 

 Tanks shock trick I mentioned earlier will also work- but they need to get drawn in...

 

 Belial with the sword "might" win a challenge with the Warboss.  Hits on a 4, wounds on a 2- Boss gets 5++ and FNP

 

 I guess not... unless we remove the DOK first in the shooting phase. That would be most advisable

 

 

 

  However, if you have a Vindicator in the army - it's a whole new kind of a ball game! 

[The_Slight_Brigade]

Would adding Sammael on his speeder possibly make this list better?

[Master Avoghai]

. I'd like to agree with you about LOS cover, but the fact is that it isn't always an option. Every tourney I've seen usually has sparse LOS terrain

But maybe that's where the problem lies...

 

What do you mean by "sparse LOS"?

 

Here the big tournies I've seen have got this type of terrain and disposition :

 

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Masteravoghai/Miscelleanous/57C394A9-5DD0-4E53-92DB-4D17177D206E-24647-00001E65A88CF355.jpg

 

Actually there are absolutely no LOS from one side to the other... Always a building, a hill or a forest blocking a LoS...

[Garath]

 This is a good table. I'd like to say that this would be the standard of table coverage where I play but that is more of an exception then a rule of thumb

[Cactus]

The density of terrain is ok but I'd like to see more of it in the centre. All the large features seem to be around the edges.

[Master Avoghai]

This is because the hill form a corridor so actually you don't really that much density ( and you can't really put some) in the center.

 

The hill will hide the units on the other side so they block LoS as if there was a large building or a group of several ones in the center.

 

Moreover I think that with so many units DSing, outflanking etc and 3 types of deployment, you must have building all around and not only in the center

[[TA]Typher]

 

 This is a good table. I'd like to say that this would be the standard of table coverage where I play but that is more of an exception then a rule of thumb

^ This.

 

 

But even with your table it could be argued that almost all of that Terrain wouldn't block LOS because a model would still be able to see through it. In most games I've played very little of that would block LOS unless you crowded it.

 

So unless it's a ruin your basic save and invuln will be better than any cover you'll get. Of course even the cover save from the ruin can be ignored by certain armies.

 

Don't get me wrong. I know how to wear terrain like underwear (Look at the Batrep in my Sig), but it's not always an option.

 

You guys should post some Batreps from your DW games and your DW lists. I'm not above learning something new. Maybe there is a trick you are using that I haven't thought of, who knows.

 

On a similar note I lost again against Tau. Did you know For under 650 points you can get 72 firewarriors. that's a lot of shots if you can't LOS them.

[Garath]

    The main issue with playing DW lies not only in the fact that terminators of all kinds are a sub par choice for troops to defeat large quantities of the enemy.

 

  If you consider that you can have 3 tactical marines for one terminaotor , we begin to see the problem for what it is. No matter how equipped , one termiantor will struggle to kill more of the enemy then 3 tactical marines. 

  This could be offset by picking supporting vehicles for DW , like whirlwinds or land speeders- but a pure DW force doesn't deploy them . 

         

          They would surely make this fire fight much more fun (for us) .

 

 72 fire warriors are a nice site to behold when you're deploying your 3 whirlwind - and you might go first.