Sooooo..... Anyone played Eldar yet?

[KnightOfBAAL]

ok well Chaos got the Helldrake

Necrons got their flyer

eldar got the WraithKnight and 

Tau got the riptide and a bunch of new rules....

 

we have a 4 Hp tank.....

 

Imperial guard Baneblade stormlord Valkyrie

 

i mean we are 0 on the power players 

[Tiger9gamer]

Do you even chill, bro?

 

Let's see, we got a forcefield generator that can give anything within 3" a 4++, we have cheap libbies and tacts, We have a huge amount of plasma we can use, We have T5 knights, Black knights, Salvo banners, FNP banners, and we have an archive of FW sites. 

[KnightOfBAAL]

ok so we got equipment.... woo hoo lol chill im excited???? more depressed that my deathwing will not last and ill have to become mixed wing

[Chaplain Lucifer]

This thread is about how to defeat Eldar, let's keep it that way, shall we?

[Tiger9gamer]

Thank you, chappy luci.

 

Alright, so even with our bikers and rad 'nads and things. can our ravenwing survive? can we get to them and start ripping them apart/ shooting them to hell? 

 

Basically, there are a lot of wraith spammers and chese lovers at my local GW, and all thier boasting is starting to wear me down. I can't talk about what I like in my codex without someone outright saying "this unit is better" Hell, even had a guy outright say "Dark angels suck" to my face, which to me is really disrespectful. 

 

 

I want to prove them wrong, so let's start finding ways to win.

[KnightOfBAAL]

the only thing i can find that would allow us to get the upper hand is we need the ability to take out their transports 

 

black knights can kill the wraith knight

 

and we can outgun them at a distance even deathwing can 

 

but in order to take out their power fields we need to get a penetrating hit right???

 

well maybe the land raider godhammer of a predator with lascannon sponsons might help heck try a devestator squad with lascannons these may allow us to knock out that mobility and all of a sudden they realize why footslogging is a bad idea

[jeremy1391]

Whirlwinds! Oh hey nice rangers/pathfinders in cover..... NOPE!!!!!

 

 

Black knights: oh hey nice wraith guard... Pewpewpew!!! Nooooopppeee

 

Deathwing: that's a lovely wave serpent/falcon DEEPSTRIKING!!! Cyclone to rear armor, storm bolter the crunchy squad inside

 

Standard of devastation!

Eldar player "all my guys have bladestorm"

Me "12" range on guardians right"

Eldar player "yea"

Me "alrighty then" dice bucket!!! 3 squads shooting..... 100ish dice rolled....80ish wounds rolled..... 30ish cover saves made by the eldar player!!!!

Me

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/jeremy1391/BDE7848B-F055-4168-890C-9DD1A90C4E74-17540-000018DA3C1C6DCF_zpsf8e6d90e.jpg

[Aegnor]

Played a Dark Angel v Eldar game tonight with my brother. (I may have been the Eldar, sorry). First game for both of us with the respective codexes. My brother probably lost the game at the list making stage - he brought a lot of scissors to meet my rocks. He also must have ran over a black cat on the way to my place as he had wretched luck with the dice while I was making pretty much every role. It turned into a drubbing and he was nearly tabled by turn 5.

 

Anyway, one big lesson learnt from tonight's game:

- Go for the Eldar force multipliers - Farseers need to be a top priority. Their ability to get off powers like Guide, Doom etc turn equal contests into massacres. Executioner can be damned nasty as well (killed three DWKs with it in one go). Same goes with Warlocks, especially if one has Jinx.

[KnightOfBAAL]

he has a point eldar are the biggest army that has reliable physic powers 

[Tiger9gamer]

I just got back, fresh from a 1,500pt game with eldar, and I won a 1,500 point game 9-1. it was a guardian/Jumping spider heavy list, and I think I planned accordingly. 

 

Basically, my whirlwinds sat back and ate huge chunks of his guardians, My bikes skirted around at 24" range to shoot the eldar and go after the rangers, and fortunately his Spiders barely came in the whole game and I only had to deal with one squad (which only killed a land speeder)

 

I did have some Vanilla marine allies with Redth (IA 10) for 500 points of infiltrating marines, but they barely did anything the entier game. Mostly, they just sat up there and shot a plasma cannon ( see allied thing in this list http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276569-ia10-space-marine-allies/ ) 

 

The only thing they did was prevent the spiders from coming in on a 2+, but that won me the game so i'm happy.

[KnightOfBAAL]

what was your whole list???

[Grey Mage]

Thank you, chappy luci.

 

Alright, so even with our bikers and rad 'nads and things. can our ravenwing survive? can we get to them and start ripping them apart/ shooting them to hell? 

 

Basically, there are a lot of wraith spammers and chese lovers at my local GW, and all thier boasting is starting to wear me down. I can't talk about what I like in my codex without someone outright saying "this unit is better" Hell, even had a guy outright say "Dark angels suck" to my face, which to me is really disrespectful. 

 

 

I want to prove them wrong, so let's start finding ways to win.

Im... shocked. Alot of those guys must be bandwagonners. Most vets are happy, but not excited, about the next codex just yet. The changes are subtle, and dont look overpowering by any means.

 

Rad grenades make me cringe inside- the average eldar being T3, theyll be instakilled by regular marines. Yikes.

 

Whirlwinds as you noted are strong. As are missile launchers- theres alot of AV 12 in the list, and alot- comparatively- of T8 with only 3+ saves. Missiles of any variety are a good way to go vs eldar.

[hardimanm]

Here is my take.

 

My first army nearly 15 years ago was eldar.  I still play them today.  The easiest way to defeat an eldar army is to understand that what makes them great also makes them vulnerable.

 

Eldar is an army of specialists.  Very few eldar units are good at more than one thing.  Eldar units are very expensive and if you force them to operate outside their designed role they usually fail. 

 

Never go head to head with eldar.  They will usually out class you.  Send your shooty stuff at their hand to hand units and your hand to hand units at their shooty stuff. 

 

Ravenwing/DS Termies;  Are great for taking out gun line eldar units:  Dark Reapers, warwalkers, guardians, ect.

Termies:  Great for hitting Howling Banshees.  Since the banshee carry power weapons your termies will just laugh the attacks off.

Plasma:  Use this combined with rad grenades to take out any wraith unit.

Ect, ect, ect...

[Tiger9gamer]

 

Thank you, chappy luci.

 

Alright, so even with our bikers and rad 'nads and things. can our ravenwing survive? can we get to them and start ripping them apart/ shooting them to hell? 

 

Basically, there are a lot of wraith spammers and chese lovers at my local GW, and all thier boasting is starting to wear me down. I can't talk about what I like in my codex without someone outright saying "this unit is better" Hell, even had a guy outright say "Dark angels suck" to my face, which to me is really disrespectful. 

 

 

I want to prove them wrong, so let's start finding ways to win.

Im... shocked. Alot of those guys must be bandwagonners. Most vets are happy, but not excited, about the next codex just yet. The changes are subtle, and dont look overpowering by any means.

 

Rad grenades make me cringe inside- the average eldar being T3, theyll be instakilled by regular marines. Yikes.

 

Whirlwinds as you noted are strong. As are missile launchers- theres alot of AV 12 in the list, and alot- comparatively- of T8 with only 3+ saves. Missiles of any variety are a good way to go vs eldar.

Yea, some of them are, some of them are estatic with the new codex. kinda vindicating for the new victory, but you know. Most of the people at the GW are loudmouths anyways.

[Biggabertha]

This is fantastic news for me..!

 

I'm really pleased I picked up my Whirlwind two years ago as a Christmas gift in hopes of fielding three so when the new Dark Angels Codex landed and made them even cheaper than before, I was (and still am) ecstatic.

 

All very good points noted by everyone here - I'd like to add some discussion on the Dark Talon's Viability against the monstrousity that is that Wraithknight.

 

Dropping the bomb on it and bringing in Deathwing Knights, Deathwing Command Squad (with a Champion and/or Power Sword Belial), Ravenwing Command Squad/Black Knights seems all good on paper but I think the only one that can really make it in without the aid of a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer are the Ravenwing. A pity their weapons don't stack with the Stasis Bomb otherwise whittling down that Wraitknight into a petty creature would really lighten up our day before charging into it!

 

 

Not only does this further cement my belief (and many others) that Dark Angels needs to be at least Dual Wing to survive but it also does make it clear that things are getting slightly more balanced.

 

I mean... I'd love to plop 20+ Terminators in a 1500 army and be able to win with it as the next guy but on the receiving end, it's no fun seeing these spiky death walls come at you REALLY slowly.

I'd love to field 24+ Bikes, 4+ Attack Bikes, dozens of Land Speeders etc. and watch the opponent cringe at how difficult it is to successfully engage but on the receiving end, it's a nightmare to have to deal with JUST Melta nad a rain of (Heavy) Bolter shots every turn.

 

Also... I'd love to have something as dangerous and as powerful as a Helldrake, lol - but we've got our own toys to play with and we've got some pretty nifty things as well. So far, no one else has unlimited toughness, weapon skill or initiative debuffs like we do.

 

 

Seems like every army/codex is getting something new and fun to play with: just the way it should be.

(I kinda worry what Imperial Guard, Orks and Dark Eldar will get though...)

[KnightOfBAAL]

im actually kinda hoping for a really good blood angels codex

 

and yes we have alot of equipment and thinking about us being marines thats right we dont get the mega units we just get the stuff to deal with it lol 

 

orks and imperial guard worry me not to many people actually play dark eldar   none in my meta anyway

[GAZ_AV_NZ]

I owned them with my chaos army.

There flyers are weak at armour 10.

My DA owned as well.

Both 2k games.

I take drop pods and drop 39 guys and Az right up there. Drop pods have deathwinds.

1 whirlwind supporting.

Drop templates all over em.

They die in droves.

Dev squad x2 and fortificaton aegis

with quad gun.

Recommend las cannons on devs.

Focus on having troops with lots of templates and plasma guns.

Theres always the hype with new units.

Sniper eldar guy dies turn one

with DP and marines landing beside him and shooting him and his guys.

Each eldar player has his style.

And with there psykers nerfed till the new craft world book addon , striking scorpians die before they get to u, banshees still die before they get to u.

Take troops , lots of em.

Your bolter is your friend.

[march10k]

 

Master Avoghai, on 07 Jun 2013 - 07:35, said:

Quote
They need to be the coup de gras.

Side note : the good expression is "coup de grâce" which can be hardly word for word translated like "Mercy-full hit". What you've written means "fat-full hit" which is a lil' different ;-)
[/French mode off]

Ah, silly me. I guess I shoulda taken French instead of Latin at the Gymnasium. Then again, fat-full hit sounds like "hit em with the heavy end!"

Quote

I've never had any problems killing Land Raiders with my Eldar armies (and I think the Eldar have just gotten better at busting tanks)... Hell take 3, it makes my life easier. DA force fields make it tougher compared to normal marine armies... So that could be a problem.

~shrug~ These are not normal land raiders. Bright lances are expensive, and the power field generator halves their effectiveness. And then there's the venerable rule...Rerolling those "kablooey" results on top of the 4+ save? They're really, really hard to kill, even compared to a regular land raider, for anything but fire dragons. It takes massed melta (which few armies have, and none outrange the terminator's charge radius) to bring one down reliably. And my plan only requires one tank to survive two enemy turns. Eldar being so heavilly reliant on synergy, thoughtfully picking one or two units to destroy no matter what the cost...sounds like a winning anti-eldar plan, and that's my all-comers plan anyway.

 

/edit/

 

I will grant that the WW is a superstar against eldar, though...seems to be a recurring theme, no matter what new army drops.  I've been using one since 3rd in my green armies, I may up that to two (gotta save a slot for my lascannon devastators!)

[Hellios]

Firstly, I don't think BLs are that expensive now... From 5pts-20pts depending on the unit. Anyway, they are not the best weapons that the Eldar have for destroying Land Raiders.

 

Secondly, I don't need an explodes result. I'll assume you've taken extra armour since you need to move... Immobilised results will work for me as well... or just plain old taking your HPs off one at a time.

 

And last but not least, I'm not even taking into account re-rolling to hit, re-rolling failed penetration rolls, forcing you to re-roll saves or otherwise finding a way to neutralize the model with the forcefield generator.

 

I'm not saying it is an automatic win for the Eldar by any means, just that it is a tough fight. I play DW, DW isn't an easy army to play with. Eldar armies can come in many forms... but some all comers lists will be able to punish small elite armies without any mercy.

[facmanpob]

Tiger9gamer, on 09 Jun 2013 - 00:27, said:

 

 

Grey Mage, on 08 Jun 2013 - 22:38, said:

 

 

Tiger9gamer, on 08 Jun 2013 - 14:52, said:

Thank you, chappy luci.

 

Basically, there are a lot of wraith spammers and chese lovers at my local GW, and all thier boasting is starting to wear me down. I can't talk about what I like in my codex without someone outright saying "this unit is better" Hell, even had a guy outright say "Dark angels suck" to my face, which to me is really disrespectful.

Im... shocked. Alot of those guys must be bandwagonners. Most vets are happy, but not excited, about the next codex just yet. The changes are subtle, and dont look overpowering by any means.

 

Yea, some of them are, some of them are estatic with the new codex. kinda vindicating for the new victory, but you know. Most of the people at the GW are loudmouths anyways.

 

Pfft! I'm not shocked by this behaviour at all. Only last week in the HH sub-forum on this very board I contributed some alternative DA fluff to a thread, to be basically told by the thread starter that he hadn't given any real thought to the DA fluff because he despises the Lion and hates the Dark Angels.....yes, he used the words 'despise' and 'hate'.....about fictional characters.....I didn't respond and won't contribute in that thread any more...

 

In my 20+ years of gaming/RPGing etc, my experience is that a significant number of gamers do not understand the 'normal' constraints of social etiquette and regularly say things that would get them thrown out of most reasonable social gatherings....

 

Anyway, back on topic.....hardimanm got it right I think, about 10 posts ago, when he said that Eldar are specialists...so engage the specialist units in the form of combat that's outside their comfort zone....even Phil Kelly said as much in the round up to the batrep in this month's WD

[Aegnor]

Yeah, I reckon close combat is where we want to be against Eldar. Standing and shooting it out with Dire Avengers or Guardians is not playing to our advantages.

 

Different vs Wraithguard obviously. There it's stand-off and pour heaps of fire onto them.

[Tiger9gamer]

some people are grabbing the new suppliment at my GW (2 I think. maybe more as time goes on) so I guess I need more high strength weapons. Because I haven't had enough trouble with plague marines >.<

[KnightOfBAAL]

what new supplement??

[Tiger9gamer]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=22200010a

[cielaq]

You are aware that this supplement contains 0 (yes, zero) new units? The main difference are up to 5 Spiritseers in one HQ slot, Wraithkningt can be warlord, 1 (one) new psychic power, new warlord table and new relics. 95% of this supplement is fluff. You can have (almost) exactly the same list without it.