Sooooo..... Anyone played Eldar yet?

[facmanpob]

So am I correct in thinking that the ability to take Wraithguard/blades as troops must therefore be in the main codex? I thought that was part of the supplement as well?

[cielaq]

Spiritseer is HQ choice that makes Wraithguards/Wraithblades Troops. In main codex you can choose 1 per HQ slot, supplement changes it to up to 5 per slot.

[Gillyfish]

Ahem. Back to how to defeat the pointy eared ones perhaps?

 

Perhaps moving on to how to defeat an Iyanden army?

[facmanpob]

Thanks for the clarification

[facmanpob]

Gillyfish, on 12 Jun 2013 - 12:01, said:

Ahem. Back to how to defeat the pointy eared ones perhaps?

 

Perhaps moving on to how to defeat an Iyanden army?

Well, we're talking Wraithguard/blades as troops for a start.....so the key thing is to stay out of close combat I think. The guard only have 12" range, and will get D3 S10 AP2 shots each in Overwatch, and the blades are packing high strength and AP2 or 3 weapons. Both have high toughness.

 

So my plan would be either a) Black Knights - rad grenade to reduce that toughness and then plasma them to death, or b ) torrent fire at 24" from salvo bolters

[Hellios]

Currently I'm not rating wraith armies (not including those from the supplement). They are slow, they have a short threat range and they don't have many attacks. Oh and they are expensive. Some powers can give them a major boost... good luck getting the right powers... Iyanden armies will have better luck I feel.

 

To make them good I think they need Wave Serpents... because they need to strike you before you strike them. So your first task should be to stop their transports from moving. If you are mechanized D-Cannons will be a bigger threat, infantry are more vulnerable to D-Scythes. Priority will be important... For most people I think it will be D-Scythes... As for Wraithblades... I'd put my money on terminators over them.

[elphilo]

Well I think you're going to always see at least a few Wave Serpents and a Fire Prism because of how sturdy they are thanks to holo field. Which all I can think of as a counter to them is a suicide Land Speeder squadron with double melta deep striking behind them to get that juicy AV10 back end.

Also be aware of Illic Nightspear infiltrating shenanigans with a non-infiltrating unit, it doesn't work. So don't let your opponent infiltrate 10 wraithguard 1" away from your lines

[Master Avoghai]

I'm more afraid of illic behind an aegis with Icarus than with in infiltration...

[march10k]

Firstly, I don't think BLs are that expensive now... From 5pts-20pts depending on the unit. Anyway, they are not the best weapons that the Eldar have for destroying Land Raiders.

No, but they're the only ones with any range.  And I'm not only talking points cost (which I don't know, I haven't seen the new point-ear dex yet), I'm talking about opportunity cost, too.  Every place you take a bright lance with its heavy1 profile, you're not taking something with more shots that's equally as lethal to most infantry (only times the number of shots)

Secondly, I don't need an explodes result. I'll assume you've taken extra armour since you need to move... Immobilised results will work for me as well... or just plain old taking your HPs off one at a time.

Taking my HP off one at a time?  Are you kidding???!?  The purpose of my crusaders isn't that they survive the game intact, the purpose is to ensure that I'm able to drop ten tactical termies without scatter on the bottom of turn two to unleash my one good round of shooting before I charge with two crusader-mounted melee termie units.  If you get around to stripping that last HP on turn three or four, it's more than just a little bit too late, you've been shooting at the wrong target since the top of turn three.  After the bottom of turn two, the LRCs are a convenience, and if you shoot at them instead of my TDA, they're more than doing their jobs! 

 

Sure, if you immobilize one of my crusaders on turn one, it sucks, but it doesn't ruin my plan.  That's why I have two of them!  And, depending on the AP of the weapon you did it with, I might make you reroll that.  AP2 is about a 50/50 proposition for me, and of course I'll accept immobilized from an AP1 weapon.

And last but not least, I'm not even taking into account re-rolling to hit, re-rolling failed penetration rolls, forcing you to re-roll saves or otherwise finding a way to neutralize the model with the forcefield generator.

All hypotheticals, and you're not likely to have more than one of them going.  I'm not saying my plan is auto-win, but you seem to be saying "anything that can go wrong is guaranteed to go wrong every single game."

I'm not saying it is an automatic win for the Eldar by any means, just that it is a tough fight. I play DW, DW isn't an easy army to play with. Eldar armies can come in many forms... but some all comers lists will be able to punish small elite armies without any mercy.

Actually, it sounds like you're saying exactly that about the eldar.  I'm half inclined to agree with you.  Eldar have my DA's number.  Since 1998, I've beaten Eldar...three times with my DA.  My IG, sisters, and tau, no problem....but my record against Eldar with my DA....it's a statistical anomaly!  I try not to let my personal record influence my analysis, though, it's clearly an aberration.  As is my 7-2-3 record against the current DE dex (lance spam, mostly, including 1-0-1 at Ard Boyz regionals) with the old DA dex, which should wipe the floor with DW.  I've been playing DA since '98, and mostly DW since the dawn of 4th edition (when my stubborn tactical sergeants went kaput), I know how much of an uphill fight it is.  Thing is, I haven't had this much fun or success since my list in the middle of 4th that was nothing but bikes, termies, and vennies (something like 27-3-5, IIRC).  I'm really having a blast and winning with my mech-melee/DWA-tactical pure DW list.  It's all about denying the enemy any shooting target for the first two turns, then focusing 100% of my army against 1/3 or less of his on the bottom of turn 2. Win (mostly) or lose, it's a done deal after turn 2.

[Tiger9gamer]

Sooooo I got my first wraithknight kill today. Basically took it down in the top of the fourth turn, and I didn't shoot at it at all the entier game before it. My libby de-buffed the guy with misfortune (the irony!) and shot him with:

 

an autocannon dread

2 Typhoon speeders

a lascannon

2 missile launchers

 

So, basically most of what I had left in my army. I guess the trick is, not to focus on the damn thing until you kill what you know you can kill, then drop kick it off the table with massed fire (not an actual drop kick, though)

[march10k]

Nice kill!  That's actually not a lot of shooting, considering that it took down a wraithknight in one turn...

[Tiger9gamer]

plus it was misfortuned too, so re-rolling everything.... >.> would have needed two more turns to probably take it down if it wasn't for that.

Also, I saw the impossible.... Illic Missed a shot!!

[deadboytat2]

So I have played Eldar three times so far with there new book. and so far only with my Dark angels. I have lost 1 game and won 2. The first was a team game with Dark angels and normal marines vs two Eldar lists it was a 3000pt game so 1500pts per person. This was my first game with them and I wanted to see just how deadly there ninja stars were to our terminators so I was ballsy and put them down right in front of there main army. It was a kill point game as well so this was a terrible move but I really just wanted to see what would happen and see what there book could do in action.

 

Both of my squads dropped in and brought the Avatar down to one wound. I split fire and ate a squad of Banshees with the other shots so was not a total loss. the next turn he healed all the wounds on the avatar with some spirit seerer stuff and then did ninja star them down. They won that game 13 to 11 I did not manage to kill the wraith Knight but we did kill a lot of stuff. It was a growing experience to be sure. The highlights from that game for me were my thirty 3rd company marines. Two squads with plasma spam and one with a missile launcher. I out ranged there infantry and there big guns had ether better targets or could not do enough damage to me behind the Wall to get a kill point for those squads.

 

The other games were both 1850 and these are the games I won. Both games were objective games and both army's were trying out wraith guard as the focus with smattering of rangers and guardians. I have to say that Plasma spam tactical squads continue to be my all stars. One round one squad made a guy pick up 4 of his guard. also given that it was about objectives my main focus was to remove his fast elements. The new rangers are a bit weaker then they used to be and I just diced them off the table with concentrated fire.

 

In both games I was able to tip some scales by getting slay the warlord line Breaker and first blood. These really help to win those games. I also ignored the wraith knights entirely as It stayed away from my shooting that could hurt it and I did not really want to deal with it.

 

From my experience with them Just focus on the objectives as best you can and kill the things you know you can kill as early as possible. IE guardians rangers and in my case the wraith guard. and worry about the other stuff later. If you manage to go first and have some raven wing elements to your army then you can use these to steal the tempo of the game and put them on the defensive. I think that is the most important thing to do to the new Eldar is maintain the tempo of the game if you are the one making the moves and they are just reacting to you then you should be winning. In my opinion at least.

[MadMek83]

Dark Angels can deal Eldars like always: Cheap Whirl Winds. Tactical Marines with Banner of Devastation and as much blast weapons as possible. Albeit I am tad worried what I read new Iyanden supplement. Change of healing Wraithknight / Wraithlord is tad worrying. As is battle focus for wraith units.... Atleast Eldars Crimson Hunter Exarch is much better interceptor than Nephilim. Albeit weaker armor, bs 5 and 4 str 8 ap 2 shots.

 

Still. If its seasoned Eldar player who knows what units do, then I am scared. If its someone who just hit bandwagon, I am not that worried. Eldars still have brutal learning curve, not as brutal as Dark Eldars but still brutal.

[march10k]

Yeah...I hadn't thought of that.  The eldar players I've faced over the last five years or so are all vets.  Eldar wasn't getting too many new players, and it damned sure wasn't keeping many, precisely because of the learning curve.  I guess there will be a lot of bandwagon "shiny new dex" eldar players for a while, and it'll be an opportunity to improve my record against the race :D

[like the lion]

Of all the mention about taking out dreadknights very easily with kraks and lascannons, did you guys know it can take a 5+ invul for 10 points?

[march10k]

Dude...this thread has been dead for over five months...and you necro it...without even saying anything meaningful??!?

[[TA]Typher]

I watched several matches today at a local tourney. Two different people had three Wraithknights in there army and another player had two. T8, 6W, Sv 3+/5++ is kind of ridiculous vs most armies. 

 

Between that and Riptide spam, which I saw even more heavily today I don't see much fun in tourneys for me.

 

In pretty much all the battles I watched the WR's survived the whole game, with only a few dying. With the amount of damage they can put out I fail to see the balance in the unit. Shouldn't it be either tanky or shooty? Minus not being scoring, It really has no drawbacks that I can see.

 

In a DW list you can always PF them, IF you can catch them. In a normal power Army lists your options are limited. If they run  multiple wave serpents and WR's then you're in trouble, as your anti-vehicle weapons have to choose between vehicles or the uber-T8 monsters spamming shots. Without FOC limits WR spam can lead you to unbalanced matches.

[march10k]

Man, my list would chew through that tourney!  Riptides and Wraithknights...yum, and they can't run away from crusaders!

[[TA]Typher]

Would love to see those bat-reps, march. I don't think it would be as easy as you think. Spreading out will give you a lot of trouble. Even if you catch one of the jump-monsterous creatures and win in combat.. you are going to be eating a ton of shots from the rest of the army, including spammed AP2 blasts. Not saying it's impossible, just saying it's far from easy.

[march10k]

sounds fun....what do you mean "if" I win in combat?  Knights and thundernators were both made for smacking MCs with the painstick!  Anyway, half of my tactic is to block LOS with the crusaders, severely limiting the fire I take.  It's probably not as easy as I'd like to think (I've not faced multiple MCs with this list yet, not even nids), but I definitely want to take that challenge.