... Units in 750 pts ?

[Deamons Redeemer]

So im starting my successor chapter Ordinem Sanguine. Im going to playtest them in a 750 pts game, now i want to know if i can go null deploy And pod it out? Dc And Reclusiarch with pf And sternguard are included, so what else to take?

[teblin]

I believe if you have nothing on the table you lose, including the start of Turn 1.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I believe if you have nothing on the table you lose, including the start of Turn 1.

Not quite - if you have no models on the table at the end of any game turn, you automatically lose. The 'game turn' bit is important, as it means if you go second and your opponent wipes out all your models, but you still have something in reserve/ongoing reserve, it still gets a shot at turning up. Means 100% drop pod lists are still viable.

 

Also, if the start of turn 1 was included, then a Daemon army prior to their new codex would have auto-lost any game they played in 6th edition ;)

 

Complete null deploy is possible as long as you only take units drop pods as dedicated transports, flyers, and a maximum of one thing that can start on table (in your case, an HQ choice or else the list is illegal). You're allowed to keep 50% of eligible models in reserve rounding up, so 50% of 1 rounded up becomes one, and he can join a pod unit.

[Squirrelloid]

I believe if you have nothing on the table you lose, including the start of Turn 1.

Not quite - if you have no models on the table at the end of any game turn, you automatically lose. The 'game turn' bit is important, as it means if you go second and your opponent wipes out all your models, but you still have something in reserve/ongoing reserve, it still gets a shot at turning up. Means 100% drop pod lists are still viable.

Also, if the start of turn 1 was included, then a Daemon army prior to their new codex would have auto-lost any game they played in 6th edition

Complete null deploy is possible as long as you only take units drop pods as dedicated transports, flyers, and a maximum of one thing that can start on table (in your case, an HQ choice or else the list is illegal). You're allowed to keep 50% of eligible models in reserve rounding up, so 50% of 1 rounded up becomes one, and he can join a pod unit.

The reserve rules are more generous than that.

(1) Units who come with pods do count for calculating how many reserves you may have (remember, the squad doesn't need to use the drop pod, and so *can* start on the table), but do not count against the total reserves when designating reserves if it does start in the pod.

(2) More generally, units which deploy into transports compelled into reserves do not count against the number you are holding in reserves, but do count for calculating how many. So the IC who joins a squad in a drop pod does not count as having been reserved, but he did count for calculating reserves (BGB FAQ is specific on this). Similarly, if you have a stormraven, any squads, dreadnoughts, or characters boarding it before the game would count towards calculating how many units can be held in reserves, but don't count as having been reserved.

(3) Do note that decisions on combat squadding are made before calculating how many units you can hold in reserves.

So if you army was

1 HQ

2 10-man units in drop pods

1 10-man unit

1 dreadnought

1 stormraven

Without combat-squadding there are 5 units that count towards how many reserves you can field. 5/2 = 2.5 -> 3. However, assuming the 10-man unit without a pod and the HQ and the dread board the stormraven, you are using 0 of those reserve slots, and could still add units to the army which could be held in reserve. (The next 5 units could all be held in reserve because you'd be adding 5 units to your total, so 10/2 = 5)

If you combat squad all the units, but still board them as above, you now have 8 units which count towards calculating reserves, but are still using 0 of your 4 reserve slots.

[Deamons Redeemer]

Ok And now in understanding english :p ( i have THE Brain of an ork ) And i am not that sanguine to fancy words And jibberish :p lol ( my mother tongue is dutch And all THE english i have mastered, i did learn myself with THE best teacher of all, the TV ( mostly family Guy and the Simpsons ) so you are saying i can start with my HQ And all other hard hitting nastys in a pod half on turn one? Is it at the end of both turns you auto lose or the first turn you or your oppo ends?

[Demoulius]

I believe if you have nothing on the table you lose, including the start of Turn 1.

Not quite - if you have no models on the table at the end of any game turn, you automatically lose. The 'game turn' bit is important, as it means if you go second and your opponent wipes out all your models, but you still have something in reserve/ongoing reserve, it still gets a shot at turning up. Means 100% drop pod lists are still viable.

Also, if the start of turn 1 was included, then a Daemon army prior to their new codex would have auto-lost any game they played in 6th edition

Complete null deploy is possible as long as you only take units drop pods as dedicated transports, flyers, and a maximum of one thing that can start on table (in your case, an HQ choice or else the list is illegal). You're allowed to keep 50% of eligible models in reserve rounding up, so 50% of 1 rounded up becomes one, and he can join a pod unit.

The reserve rules are more generous than that.

(1) Units who come with pods do count for calculating how many reserves you may have (remember, the squad doesn't need to use the drop pod, and so *can* start on the table), but do not count against the total reserves when designating reserves if it does start in the pod.

(2) More generally, units which deploy into transports compelled into reserves do not count against the number you are holding in reserves, but do count for calculating how many. So the IC who joins a squad in a drop pod does not count as having been reserved, but he did count for calculating reserves (BGB FAQ is specific on this). Similarly, if you have a stormraven, any squads, dreadnoughts, or characters boarding it before the game would count towards calculating how many units can be held in reserves, but don't count as having been reserved.

(3) Do note that decisions on combat squadding are made before calculating how many units you can hold in reserves.

So if you army was

1 HQ

2 10-man units in drop pods

1 10-man unit

1 dreadnought

1 stormraven

Without combat-squadding there are 5 units that count towards how many reserves you can field. 5/2 = 2.5 -> 3. However, assuming the 10-man unit without a pod and the HQ and the dread board the stormraven, you are using 0 of those reserve slots, and could still add units to the army which could be held in reserve. (The next 5 units could all be held in reserve because you'd be adding 5 units to your total, so 10/2 = 5)

If you combat squad all the units, but still board them as above, you now have 8 units which count towards calculating reserves, but are still using 0 of your 4 reserve slots.

....

What????

Im confused

[Squirrelloid]

I believe if you have nothing on the table you lose, including the start of Turn 1.

Not quite - if you have no models on the table at the end of any game turn, you automatically lose. The 'game turn' bit is important, as it means if you go second and your opponent wipes out all your models, but you still have something in reserve/ongoing reserve, it still gets a shot at turning up. Means 100% drop pod lists are still viable.

Also, if the start of turn 1 was included, then a Daemon army prior to their new codex would have auto-lost any game they played in 6th edition

Complete null deploy is possible as long as you only take units drop pods as dedicated transports, flyers, and a maximum of one thing that can start on table (in your case, an HQ choice or else the list is illegal). You're allowed to keep 50% of eligible models in reserve rounding up, so 50% of 1 rounded up becomes one, and he can join a pod unit.

The reserve rules are more generous than that.

(1) Units who come with pods do count for calculating how many reserves you may have (remember, the squad doesn't need to use the drop pod, and so *can* start on the table), but do not count against the total reserves when designating reserves if it does start in the pod.

(2) More generally, units which deploy into transports compelled into reserves do not count against the number you are holding in reserves, but do count for calculating how many. So the IC who joins a squad in a drop pod does not count as having been reserved, but he did count for calculating reserves (BGB FAQ is specific on this). Similarly, if you have a stormraven, any squads, dreadnoughts, or characters boarding it before the game would count towards calculating how many units can be held in reserves, but don't count as having been reserved.

(3) Do note that decisions on combat squadding are made before calculating how many units you can hold in reserves.

So if you army was

1 HQ

2 10-man units in drop pods

1 10-man unit

1 dreadnought

1 stormraven

Without combat-squadding there are 5 units that count towards how many reserves you can field. 5/2 = 2.5 -> 3. However, assuming the 10-man unit without a pod and the HQ and the dread board the stormraven, you are using 0 of those reserve slots, and could still add units to the army which could be held in reserve. (The next 5 units could all be held in reserve because you'd be adding 5 units to your total, so 10/2 = 5)

If you combat squad all the units, but still board them as above, you now have 8 units which count towards calculating reserves, but are still using 0 of your 4 reserve slots.

....

What????

Im confused

Okay, lets introduce some terminology with rigorous meaning, since GW sucks at that. These are all concepts supported by the BGB or the FAQ, they just don't give us suitable terms for discussing them.

Obligatory Reserves: Units compelled into reserves. They do not count toward calculating the reserve limit.

Reserve Limit: The number of units you can designate as reserves. This is equal to 1/2 of the units that could start on the table.

Free Reserves: Any unit which is kept in reserves but does not need to be designated. They do not count towards filling the reserve limit as designated reserves, but they do count towards calculating the reserve limit. (This category is made explicit in the FAQ, even if it doesn't use this term).

Designated Reserves: Units which are nominated as being held in reserves, and cannot exceed the reserve limit.

So obligatory reserves cover things like drop pods and flyers. Free reserves cover units deployed into obligatory reserve transports.