Whirlwinds

[Montuhotep]

Okay, simple question for all of you - has the Whirlwind become better in 6th than 5th and is it even remotely worth taking one now?

[Arkeus]

In the DA codex it is alot cheaper, and frankly it has always been worth taking in some ways. Being able to lay down S5 AP4 Large Blasts that ignore cover is the closest we can come to decent artillery without taking allies~

[Hellios]

In my Greenwing list for 5th ed, I always took a Whirlwind at 1,500pts (I like to pair it with a vindicator). There are two problems with the Whirlwind (and it depends at what level you are playing at as well I guess).

 

1) Lack of suitable targets. Playing against a lot of vehicles or maybe space marines all the time? Not great... Not useless... But not great... Considering how cheap it is... That isn't a huge issue. I loved the Deathstorm droppods before they changed the rules.... D3 whirlwind templates at every unit in range? Yes please! How often do You play against Xenos? Tau became a little better with 6th ed, and the the new codex has made them even better. You might well see more fire warriors and kroot on the table... AP4 and ignoring cover works... Necrons are both popular and now don't run 3+ across the board... So the Whirlwind might be useful. Eldar? Concealed guardians, pesky pathfinders? BOOM! Orks? ZAAPP! IG? SORRY GUYS! FRIENDLY FIRE! Tyrandis? It should thin out the little ones...

 

2) Not enough heavy support slots (let's assume you have 3). What do you want to take in those heavy support slots? Normally it in tank busting gear, but you might not need that if you are running tank busting equipment in other slots (Melta vets in a DP), MM attack bikes and so on.

 

Actually I might add a third point...

 

3) Fairly soft... low AV, 1 primary weapon. Works better on boards with decent cover... If you can hide it at the back of the board out of LoS, it can be a real pain. I still can't figure out if I prefer it on larger or smaller boards. Certainly on larger boards it can prove to be a distraction for the enemy if deployed on its own; although this tactic makes it vulnerable to very fast units or out flankers who happen to appear on that side.

[corlinjewell]

Since it is barrage, it can effectively snipe units, as the damage comes from the center of the template, and you decide where the template goes.  That way, you can place the center over the sgt. or special weapon carriers of a unit.  Not to mention blob squads that hold objectives in cover.  It think they are decent, but as mentioned by Hellios, they are a lot of great Heavy Support options and many of our tanks are better in twos (Predator and Vindicator for example)

[Koremu]

A change in 6th which positively affected the Whirlwind was the change to Blast Weapons so that the whole template, not just the centre hole, struck vehicles at full STR.

 

 

Because the Ordnance Barrage comes from the direction of the centre of the template, this now means any AV10 vehicle has a 30% chance of suffering a penetrating hit, 25% chance of suffering a glance, even if the AV10 side is the normally protected rear. If you use Ignore Cover rounds, you have a flat 30% chance of a glance.

 

This can let you chip away at things like War Walker or Land Speeder Squadrons, or lay some hurt on a transport and its recently dismounted unit.

 

It's still insufficiently flexible to really merit a place - it really needs to be given Hyperios anti-air missiles as an option.

[Ming]

I have 2 in the collection and never use them.  One large blast template for 85 points in Codex SM is pretty poor by today's standards, when you can use a thunderfire (4 small templates) for a similar and likely more effective function (although the thunderfire needs LOS).  Thunderfire is 100 points, plus includes a techmarine with its own benefits. 

 

That said, Shiny Rhino uses a single Whirlwind to great effect supporting his Ultramarines 2nd Company, Squads 7-8 plus HQ biker list.  

 

If your tactic is to (1) blow up a transport with one unit; (2) hammer them with a whirlwind while the formerly tranported unit is clumped (crater or next to the wreck); and (3) charge the survivors (if any), it is an awesome support to the combo.

 

I find that observant opponents will spend more time spreading their infantry units out to full coherency limits just by seeing you have a Whirlwind in the list. 

[WarriorFish]

I think it is a good support unit and a good price for a unit that can really put the hammer on hordes. I don't think a Whirlwind can be seen as a primary choice but I also think that every army must be much more than the sum of it's parts and the Whirlwind can be a good multiplier.

 

So winning games for you? Very unlikely, but it can lessen the pressure on your other units which can make all the difference which is a good deal for 85pts I reckon - a deal that only gets better the more lightly armoured enemies you face (and the more Dark Angel you are!).

[knife&fork]

I run fast Whirlwinds, so my angle is a bit different.

 

Lately, whenever I don't have them in my list I miss them. They are very poor MEQ killers, but that's not why you take them.

For me they serve three purposes; 

 

1. They encourage my opponent to spread out, or punish anyone who doesn't. Good for me as I want to isolate enemy units and maximize any mobility advantage I have.

 

2. They can (almost) always fire. A gun that I'm not using isn't good value no matter what I pay for it. The Whirlwind launcher is rarely silent due to LoS or range, and there is always some kind of valid target on the board unless I'm about to wipe the opponent. 

 

3. Sniping individual models, already mentioned above but worth mentioning again. Some models  are more valuable or threatening than others, the whirlwind gives you a way to take them out directly.  

 

 

Whirlwinds are a great tool, IF you have a plan for them.

[Ultra Magnus]

The Whirlwind also supports another use case, that of pressuring the nearly ubiquitous Aegis Defense Lines showing up in everyones' lists. Their cover ignoring shots and ability to snipe can be a nasty suprise to the Telion+sniper scouts detachments that most people stick behind them. While the Thunderfire Cannon can also do the same, it does so at a cost of 15 more points and the inability to avoid return fire from its targets.

[Gen. Confusion]

I want to like the whirlwind but I just can't seem to get by its poor performance. I used one in my last battle with chaos marines and it just did not perform.

I had several great opportunities with clustered chaos marines huddled up in rhinos sized craters.

The whirlwind had several direct hits and caused max hits on two of those rhino craters over the course of the game.

I also positioned the middle of the large blast template over his champs. I tried to snipe out the champs but he made his look out sir rolls or they just made the armor saves. The end result with above average hits and semi above average saving throws was just a few dead chaos marines. I think I took out no more than three marines over the course of the game.

I kept thinking that I wished I was rolling those hits with a vindicator instead.

[Ultra Magnus]

The Whirlwind is not an all purpose weapon and will suffer from poor target selection against MEQ & TEQ heavy armies as you experienced. That said it does have a place in an "all comers" list as you anti-horde component as it shines against the likes of guard, orks, and tyranids. Your local meta will determine how useful it is to you but even against MEQ it can still have a place against ADL's as mentioned previously as well as sweeping entrenched scout units off the field.

[knife&fork]

 

I also positioned the middle of the large blast template over his champs. I tried to snipe out the champs but he made his look out sir rolls or they just made the armor saves. 

 

It's better used to take out key models that doesn't get the LoS, like heavy or special weapons.

[Grey Mage]

*nods* Theres lots of those targets. Besides, just forcing armor checks is the first step in killing most enemies when youre a marine.

[Syphid]

I play against IG and Tau often.  For those games I always bring at least one Whirlwind and a Librarian with Prescience.  A couple of Whirlwinds with a Techmarine can make for a powerful weapons batter that can be tough to take down.

[ChapelXIII]

I love my Whirlwind. With the release of CSM, Daemons, Tau, and Eldar the Whirlwind is definitely helpful because all of these armies have units that use cover heavily.  Whirlwinds cause issues for cultists, plague bearers, pathfinders, and rangers. Plus they make fairly good snipers, able to force saves on a single model due to the barrage rule.