How good are GK in 6th

[BloodTzar]

Well as a BA player, I was always looking into our less mutated brothers. One that get my attentions were GK's as I hated them in 5th, due to being one of the most OP dexes (before Crons) I refused to play them.

 

 

Now when stuff has shifted, I still admire GK TDA and fluff that goes with them. 

 

Therefore I would like to know how good they are? Moreover what are the viable lists

that have chance in 6th ed environment?

 

 

One thing I would like to know, how competetive can TDA spam with DK+2SR be?

 

Thank you,

~BT

[jeffersonian000]

There are quite a few of us on this forum that play TDA heavy lists, such as my very own Ghostwing list which has 25 TDA models at 1500pts. What most us can honestly say is that they are fun to play and do moderately well against most armies, less than stellar against others. Adding DreadKnights and/or Stormravens generally adds options to your army at the cost of bodies on the ground, forcing players to swap out a TDA squad for PA just to shoehorn in a 'Big Box Model'. There is nothing wrong with that, as it does give you options.

 

SJ

[BloodTzar]

Well the range we play is somewhere round 1850-2k but still, I like the the idea of DK and I aready have 2 SR's so having this is what brought me to GK.

 

Moreover also the look of the GK TDA. On the other hand, I am not saying I am not willing to play any PA, but in reasonable build I will go for non TDA stuff :)

[thade]

Well as a BA player, I was always looking into our less mutated brothers. One that get my attentions were GK's as I hated them in 5th, due to being one of the most OP dexes (before Crons) I refused to play them.[/size]

They really weren't that bad then; I'm also primarily a BA player (one that doesn't use most of the BA-specific stuff in the BA codex) and I went 50/50 against the GK lists that kept popping up. Reliably beating silly Purifier spam with tactical squads really frustrated the GK players I was up against...that was 5th though, haha. People keep telling me my dex is "underpowered" now.

 

My GK are still on the painting bench, but the general consensus from the members I've seen on here seems to be that the dex can hold its own. We have members that run Draigowings, Jefferson's Ghostwing, a few players that swear by a certain named Inquisitor (no worries, GML will be along soon to extol him <3), people that use Dreadknights in various configurations, Purifiers, GKT troops, Interceptors...almost everything the dex has to offer. Really the only thing that everybody (uniformly) seems to agree could use a buff are the dex's Dreadnoughts. Vehicles in general took a stiff hit in 6th, and Dreads took the worst of it. If you don't have a flyer to direct-deposit a melee dread into a tarpit, it will have a lot more trouble weathering fire now than it used to, due to hull points. When so much of the dex sees so much table time across players, it reflects well on the codex itself.

[Justicar Enethys]

My current 2,500 list runs an Inquisitor in TDA, 30 Terminators, 2 SR and 2 NDK - so pretty much exactly what you're enquiring about. At lower points levels, my list is exactly the same - just scaled down. Always Terminator based - with SR and NDK support though.

That kind of list does fine competitively. My gaming group covers all the Codexes and there are none that I can't deal with. Some match-ups are a close fought thing and come down to their fair share of lucky dice rolls, but even so, that's what many 40K games come down to ultimately. As a rule, my army holds it's own and certainly has a decent Win / Loss ratio. I don't know about the hardcore tournament environment as it's not my thing - but if you want to know if TDA based lists with SR and NDK support can be competitive outside of those said tournaments, then I can categorically say yes!

[number6]

The GK 'dex is just fine in 6e. :) I myself nearly won a tournament with them earlier this year.

 

They lack flyers and flyer defense. That's their glaring weakness. If you happen to run across flyer spam -- especially Necrons or heldrakes -- you could be in for a rough ride. That said, Tau seem likely to shift the way players build armies enough that flyer spam might be disappearing relatively soonish.

 

All in all: no complaints! :tu: The codex has virtually the same strengths and weaknesses it had when it came out in 5th edition.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

no worries, GML will be along soon to extol him <3

 

Cheeky!

 

I think we can all agree that Coteaz is one of those spectaculously undercosted minis (like the old Avatar and old Skulltaker).

 

That being said, my current lists don't use him.

 

They would probably be 'better' if I did, but /meh I don't like him. ;)

[Dread]

I enjoy my GK's aot. The list I usually take has Draigo in it, whether a 1250 list or a 2500 list. I, unfortunately have a lot of CSM players and have to suffer the Helldrakes almost on a weekly basis. So far my best option has been my SR loaded out with psyammo. I've also made my list with nothing but termies and paladins because of this. No skyfire but a 2+ save really can help. Not happy about this cause I miss my other units. But now fun is in the air and I am grabbing on for the ride.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Knights were never overpowered anyway. All the bitching in 5th edition was centered around Draigowing, and it was a barrow pushed by a handful of old Daemonhunter players who wouldn't adapt to the new army. 

 

6th has definitely highlighted our weaknesses. Lower cover saves mean AP3/2 really hurts our infantry now, Heldrakes in particular are a nightmare for Strikes and Purifiers. Lack of anti-Flyer beside hail-mary psycannon or PsyDread re-rolls is a pain, especially against Scythe-spam. AV13 wall (BA or Crons again) is also a pain to deal with. We're a low model count army in an edition that is even bloodier than 5th and wants plenty of scoring for objective mission wins. 

 

We're still the noobgate to 40k though. Good armies with decent generals can win against us, its only terrible players or terrible lists that will lose consistently. Same for Crons and IG, and I'd argue Tau as well now (good god Riptides are stupidly powerful). 

[BloodTzar]

Last comment is right with the low model count, that makes GK a bit different from the other marine armies. That mentioned makes me think that one way to play GK is to spam henchmen with paladins...

 

Still not sure about the GK overall feel as at this moment I have only few games on my belt, while I am still learing GK. One major issue I have with GK is fact, that lot of stuff seems to work on paper however is useless in real game enviroment. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Last comment is right with the low model count, that makes GK a bit different from the other marine armies.

 

I have never agreed with this.  Sure, we can build an ultra low mini count army.  But that's not unique to us (SM Bike lists, Dark Angels, etc).

 

We can also flood the board with just about as many Marines on foot as other Marines.  There's only a 4 point difference between our basic dudes and 'nilla marines as well.

 

6 full tac squads with only free weapon upgrades are 960.  6 Strikes with double Psycannons are 1,320.  A difference of 360, for really 60 Storm Bolter 'upgrades'.

 

And lets not forget we can fulfil our FoC requirements with a 25 point HQ if necessary, while at least 'nilla marines can't. (Dark Angels are better with things like a 65 point HQ and even cheaper Marines).

 

And this isn't even considering Coteaz.  No marine army can field 72 Storm Bolter bodies for a measly 504 points.  And still have the potential for 12 additional Marine Scoring units.

 

(2x GM, two rolls of 3, 6 Purgation/Purifier 10 man squads, combat squadded for 12 scoring units).

 

*cough* Can't do that, as we've used Coteaz...  But you can get an extra 6. ;)

 

HQ: Coteaz (100)

HQ: GKGM (175)

 

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

Troop: Warrior Acolyte x12, Storm Bolter x12 (84)

 

Heavy: Purgation x10, Incinerator x4 (200)

Heavy: Purgation x10, Incinerator x4 (200)

Heavy: Purgation x10, Incinerator x4 (200)

 

Total: 1,379

 

Take that low model count armies! :P

[BloodTzar]

Well exactly what I have meant, just differently, I was proposing 

 

Coteaz , GKGM,with a lot of plasma/melta acolytes in chimeras , with some minimal crusader sq. SR all supported with footsloging paladins.

[Gentlemanloser]

That is one way.  But it doesn't have to be.

 

If you would usually field 60 Tacs, you can field 60 Strikes.  And still have points left over for Dreads, Terminators, our awesome Razors that other Marines cannot replicate, or allies.

 

You can run a full TDA list.  It now has some small benefits over the double amount of PA you could have instead, but generally the PA will perform 'better'.  Subjectivity FTW! ;)

 

You can run TDA and supplement that with our cheap bodies.  Or ally in a large amount of cheap bodies from the IG dex.

 

You can do the same with our PA troops as well.

[BloodTzar]

To me PA and TEQ are almost the same in the 6th regarding its durability, all the AP2-3 weapons in the new dexes, ale the Bale-flayers or new plasma spam.

To me it seems that 6th ed rewards quantity over quality.

I would like to see some sort of list, or synergies that works for you in 6th. As I am still in seek for them

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Last comment is right with the low model count, that makes GK a bit different from the other marine armies. That mentioned makes me think that one way to play GK is to spam henchmen with paladins...

I wouldn't try plugging holes in our bodycount problem with Henchmen. IG make a far better option if you want presence and staying power. They can flood the board with scoring+tanks, leaving room for you to take high-end melee to round out the list.

Still not sure about the GK overall feel as at this moment I have only few games on my belt, while I am still learing GK. One major issue I have with GK is fact, that lot of stuff seems to work on paper however is useless in real game enviroment.

What things specifically? Most of our special rules and tricks work, I can only think of a few examples of rules that never really trigger (our Preferred Enemy lol)

To me PA and TEQ are almost the same in the 6th regarding its durability, all the AP2-3 weapons in the new dexes, ale the Bale-flayers or new plasma spam.

To me it seems that 6th ed rewards quantity over quality.

I would like to see some sort of list, or synergies that works for you in 6th. As I am still in seek for them

I disagree. Terminators are if anything even more durable this edition. Their durability against shooting is exactly the same (they always died to AP2, they'd be completely broken if they didn't), but their durability in melee went up. Plus, melee is now a lot more likely, between all the challenge rules, 2D6 charges and the durability of Terminators to Overwatch (it takes a really lucky plasma bolt to stall a typical charge).

Riptides, Wraithknights and so on (Terminators are immune to Heldrakes, battle cannons etc) present new problems, but plasma has always been a factor. I'd argue you need to diversify your list, put in things to deal with those AP2 threats so your Terminators can punish a weaker flank. Dreadknights work great in both cases, especially if you Outflank with it (if they use up their shots on Interception, they can't fire the same gun in their turn, so even if they kill the DK you're still ahead).

I definitely agree about quantity over quality. Necron Warrior spam is back, IG Blob is still just as good as it was in 5th, Orks are still Orks, Tau now have incentives to go Shas'la heavy...Marines are in a difficult position. DA and CSM both got discount Troop squads, CSM even got Cultists thrown in as well. We have Henchmen and IG Allies. I do think Strikes are kinda out in 6th, they just don't punch hard enough for the premium you pay, and they die like a 14/15pt MeQ.