Chaos Tactica: the new (6th ed) Eldar Threat

[Prot]

Fellow Chaos Lords, Warsmiths, Sorcs, and Daemons,

 

Who says every chaos war has to start with belligerent screaming?!?! We can have tactica too! Since no one has started anything yet, I thought I'd throw this up here as a way for us to examine the pretty, but irritatingly arrogant, point eared, self proclaimed masters of the universe: Eldar.

 

What new threats come our way? What will we not see anymore? Will Eldrad still be in every army that exists even though he's dead? Does Wraithbone taste like rice cakes? These are questions we hope to answer between our astute colleagues and masters of warfare.

 

To heck with technology, we have our bitterness and we like it that way! Aaaarrrrgggh!!! (<- Belligerent, tactic-less scream)

 

So just a quick disclaimer... I know we are the most bitter corner of the internet, but please don't turn this into a 'Wow, their codex is so awesome and ours is so....<insert expletive>!' This is where we share tactica and experiences of victory and defeat!

 

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I'll start off with a quick and dirty overview of the obvious and most glaring changes that I think will effect the battlefield.

 

Army Rules and how they might frustrate or delight you:

Most of (due to unit rules) the army has become quite dodgy. They have the ability to move-shoot-run or move-run-shoot. These means their snipers got more dodgy, and all their units effectively -gain- range, or can leave an area of danger, shooting while creating a retreating gap between themselves and your chaosy goodness.

 

Ballistic skill for everyone! Some time between editions, these guys grew thumbs! For some reason GW is now giving out BS 4 like candy! Yes, you read correctly the finest artists and bakers of the Craftworlds, AKA Guardians now have BS4. So now even those guys are the equivalent of hardened super soldiers with thousands of years of experience! Do I sound bitter? Aaaargggh!!! (<- Belligerent, tactic-less scream)

 

But in case they miss, in most cases (there are rare exceptions) in case they miss, Scatter Lasers can twin link the rest of a unit's shots. One

 

 

HQ:

Illic Nightspear. If you see this guy on the table he represents a direct threat to your multiwound, hightoughness characters (and his squad). He is a greater threat to characters (IE. unit champions) than he is an independent character due to the nature of 'Look out sir'.  That being said, keep in mind he has the ability to take down a Daemon Prince (for example) in one, mathematically improbable shot. This guy, and his squad will probably be most effective against Chaos units heavily sprinkled in Nurgle marks.

 

Eldrad: What has two thumbs up, got a bit cheaper and has 4 warp charges? Eldrad! I don't think we'll see quite as much of him. He's good... very good, but what really hurts him is the Eldar powers are now -random-. RoWard and RoWit are toast. (as a note, the annoying 'Mind War' has effectively been nerfed.)

 

Warlocks: These guys are pretty expensive but I think we'll still see them because their Primaris Power is goooood. However, they are also generating 'random psyker powers'.

 

Spiritseer: This is the guy that makes Wraithguard troop types. He also has a mini kind of preferred enemy rule for all his Wraith units in the army.

 

TROOPS:

Most troops are not changing dramatically. They do get BS4, but go up in points slightly. But quick items of note are: Shuriken Weapons got an upgrade and have the ability to go AP2. This is a real head turner. You might see a lot more Guardian troops than ever before with scatter lasers.

 

Dire Avengers look ok, but Bladestorm changed, and the Exarch is questionable. Instead I'd look to see more Guardians and Bikes! At already a decent price, the bikes got cheaper with raised Ballistic Skill! These guys are going to be everywhere.

 

ELITE:

Wraithguard. This one hurts me. I suppose to move the new plastics, these guys have a new weapon entry that I believe is an AP2 flamer!?! Wow. So my favourite unit, Terminators, is in serious trouble against this army period, but these guys add a dimension of utter destruction to 2+ armour. I wouldn't try assaulting them either. With the potential to be turned into troops, be prepared to see a lot of these guys.

 

Elite aspects are kind of 'meh' to be honest... they seem rather underdone. For close combat it might be as simple as: Scorpions are good, Banshees are bad. Fire Dragons will probably still be everywhere, but they went up a bit as they were really under costed for what melta brings to the table.

 

HEAVY:

This section of new army list is pretty juicy and features a lot of hot contenders but I see the Fire Prism as a huge threat. With 3 modes of fire including a high strength Lance weapon it's really hard to see why an Eldar player wouldn't take at least one. There are some minor improvements to Heavies but that's the big one imho.

 

The Decepticons are coming! With apoc around the corner we see the arrival of the giant Wraithknight; it's no doubt we are going to see a lot of these multiwound, super high toughness models. They are a bit pricey but are they effective? It remains to be seen. Tarpitting (zombie magic time) them may be the way to go. They are obviously extremely vulnerable to anti-toughness weapons (which we don't have a lot of). They can get an invulnerable, but it's hard to see a mid-to-small point game featuring these guys. We'll have to see how that pans out.

 

Wraithlords have to contend with trying to squeeze into this category but they got a bit better too. The added independent character rule is so nice! Why don't our 'Fiends get that? I mean they are 'daemons' in machines, much like a Wraithlord is a 'spirit' in a machine. In case it isn't obvious, the advantage that this gives a Wraithlord is it can now point to the fist toting Champion and challenge him (we're forced to challenge him anyway but you get the point.) So there will be no 'invisible' fist slamming away at the Wraithlord anymore. Plus their weapons can now double up and not be penalized for this with 'twin-linking'. The Wraithlord is still a contender in my book, but will it push out multiple Wraithknights and Fire Prisms? (Note to GW: Please amend our 'Fiend units to be Independent Characters... why don't we have this? do I sound bitter? Aaaargggh!!! (<- Belligerent, tactic-less scream))

 

FLYER:

What a funky flyer they got. The crimson fighter looks like the love child of an eldar Falcon a snail and a starfish. It has low armour that's for sure. Without giving too much away, think of it like this: An angry Khorne Berzerker with nothing more than a old beheaded, rubber chicken in one hand and a bolt pistol in the other has a chance of glancing this thing.

 

Be that as it may, the figher variant is armed to the teeth with a great arsenal for wiping other fighters out. This is a massive threat to a Heldrake, and I would actually definitely prefer my Heldrake(s) to come in -after- the Crimson Fighter has arrived. 

 

The addition of a quad cannon to your army is a big threat to that flyer and that makes your quad cannon a massive target to any Eldar player using one or more of their flyers.

 

 

Transport/Vehicle Upgrades:

The Wave Serpent is good, really good. It still doesn't have an assault ramp but Holofields changed, and so did the Serpent Shield. The Serpent Shield all but eliminates your ability to penetrate this model. My advice, go for the glance, always, and stack the glances fast and get these things on the ground. The Serpent Shield can become an offensive weapaon, sacrificing defensive abilities on the next turn for a really long range, ST7 multi (random) shot that ignores cover. I can't give specifics, but imagine this vehicle with a Twin Scatter laser (remember this twin links the vehicle) + an underslung Shuri-cannon + Serpent Shield shooting = a LOT of St6 or better shots, twin linked. The Serpent is an extremely potent vehicle on a few levels for its pricing and the weapons are cheaper. You may even see more Brightlances on these guys.

 

Holofields changed, and now improve the jink on the vehicle that employs them.

 

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General Thoughts:

What does the eldar codex mean to me? I'm glad you asked. As a Chaos player that heavily believes in the multi-faceted use of Terminators (I use these guys in so many roles) I am really thinking that the new Eldar are the biggest threat to my beloved Termi's simply disappearing from the table. Sure Tau too, but these guys have the potential even in their cheapest units.

 

The army features a lot of ways to smoke Mid and heavy AV at medium to short range. This is a big threat to our 'Fiend units which already have medium to short range and will have to rely on spamming those units and the Daemon save.

 

The increased influx of Wraith type units and the threat to 2+ armour, I see a bigger need for the Heldrake here, as there is still the potential to wipe out these space zombies before they get close enough to use their uber-flamers. Back to the old Heldrake... man we work this unit to death but what can you do?

 

With a heavier reliance on such a unit this makes our protection of that unit a little more important. Do you duplicate/triplicate your Heldrakes? Do you protect it with a Quad gun?

 

I think a long range, shooty army is still a big threat to Eldar which Chaos is not. I've tried it, trust me. As an Iron Warrior player I've gone completely shooty in some games and have really struggled with it because we lack range. So with Eldar what is our angle? Eldar are always going to have really good, specialized units that are VERY role specific. I don't see that changing. What I'm saying is you have to look for those mismatches and make him pay for his arrogant, pointy eared, shiny, new codex and counter it with our bitterness and tactical superiority. Look for mismatches like our assault units on their Dragons, and Guardians, and Dark Reapers (yes you may see those). Use our wealthy access to medium strength weaponry to punch the undoubtedly heavy use of AV12 vehicles.  But be prepared to focus fire, with Holofields, Spiritstones, and Serpent fields it won't be easy.

 

Going Forward:

Please help me fill this out. It hopefully will be a living document you can add to below. Please share your good and bad experiences. Also I may have advice above that is full of errors because as I write this the codex has been out less than a week and things will change. Let's use our bitter hatred for all things shiny and new to help us defeat this pompous, fancy mustard eating, 'we ruled the universe' attitude race of aliens and show them we aren't just bitter losers. Aaaargggh!!! (<- Belligerent, tactic-less scream)

[bystrom]

To clarify, scatter lasers only twin-link if at least one (of its four) shots hit. Even then, only the model with a scatter laser has its shots twin-linked, NOT the entire unit. An example unit which there has been a lot of talk about is war walkers with scatter laser and star cannon. Lots of shots, and the AP2 shots are most likely twin-linked. So guardians aren't that hot, while guardian jetbikes still are, with great mobility, cheap unit cost and lots of shots.

 

The fire prism, besides having a neat lance shot, also gets a large blast AP3 weapons, something which marines also want to avoid getting hit by, at least if knocked out of a transport.

 

When it comes to glancing eldar, I think the Hades autocannon is more motivated now than before, especially to shoot at wave serpents with their shields up.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think an "octo-cannon" set up for a Havoc squad is going to be one of our best weapons against the Eldar, by which I mean Havocs with four autocannons manning a quad cannon on an ADL.  The ADL will protect them against the myriad ways the Eldar have of penetrating power armor.  The autocannons will provide AP4, which penetrates most Eldar infantry armor, and enough shots to dig through a Wave Serpent's rather disgusting combination of AV12, 4+ cover save, and reduction of pens to glances on a 2+.  Plus, as Prot pointed out, the quad gun is probably the single greatest threat to the Crimson Hunter we can put on the table.

[Brother Ambroz]

Very good idea with this Prot, I think we should do this for every army!

 

Couple of questions/thoughts, what about fielding a large amount of AV 13 on the board? Say if someone has a fair amount of Decimators and Predators, would they be more survivable than the AV 12 fiends and defilers? Against the Wraithknight and high toughness units, wouldn't a BM prince do a good job of taking these guys down? Seems like he'd be pretty awesome if you can get him there in one piece.

[Tenebris]

Ok, today I had two Doubles games and one of them was Space Wolves and the new Eldar. The table turned out with me facing the Eldar. Now I was aware of the Hatred of Slaanesh but I was not that worried about it. In truth the Noise Marines with Blastmasters prospered against the Eldar. Allow me to elaborate:

 

Ignore Cover with all Noise weapons. That is the death of many Eldar and in the game above I killed of with two turns of my Soundblasters Illic and his Pathfinders squad. The thing is that Eldar rely on Shrouded or Armor rerolls to make them last, the Blastmaster is the perfect weapon to take them. It ignores cover, it has pinning and it is S8 thus is Instant Death. Trust me Noise Marines will be the targets for all those Eldar Precision Shots but so are they if they end on the bad side of the Blastmaster. Trust in this weapon to wreak havoc with anything Eldar, Guardians in cover, vehicles and even Wraithguard. Try to get one unit of Noise Marines with a Blastmaster if you have the points.

 

AV 12 is squishy against every army but I have found my Forgefiend and Maulerfiend work wonders. Hadesfiend is absolutely brutal against Eldar vehicles, wraith things and to some extent Jetbikes but the true star was the Maulerfiend. It killed with ease a Wave Serpent, it survived a hell of return fire and it even tackled a Farseer in melee for two turns thanks to its ++. Since it is Beast it surprised my two adversaries with its speed for it was able to caught a moving squad after they fired and ran. 

 

Daemonettes. Like them or not they are nasty. Even due to rerolls they performed admirably against both Guardians and Dire Avengers. I did not had the chance to pit them against other things though I suppose they would make for fine Wraithguard killers. On a side note, I think that the Seekers of Slannesh would be the perfect answer to those swift jetbikes.

 

I had also the chance to deep strike my Slaanesh Lord and the Brand did its usual massacre and cleared an objective for me. Combiplasma were thorough enough to kill of a squad of Wraithguard.

 

So to recap, with Eldar anything that Ignores Cover is godsend and due to the celerity of their units the Hades Autocannons get really some love. 

[HJL]

Very interesting right up. I dont know when ill be fighting Eldar next but i shall endeavor to keep your thoughts in mind.

 

on a side note, how do you use terminators successfully? i always find that they get shot to death very quickly if they are even remotely aggressive.

[daveNYC]

You didn't mention the Warp Spiders. Crazy fast and have the Monofilament rule. Bonus is that they can go after light armor.

Bikes as troops means end of game objective grabs.

Their Crimson Hunter flyer will kill the crap out of something on the turn it appears on. Plus side is that it uses DE wet cardboard armor technology.

Massively dependent on cover saves and they do have a bit of a focus on ignoring others' cover saves (Dark Reapers).

An Icarus lascanon and a Exarch with fast shot. Might want that killed before your 'Drake comes on.

The forced challenge rule looks worse and worse all the time. Scorpions have a powerfist that strikes at I among other things.

The wave serpent, at least autocannon havoks were already popular.

Determine how those wraithguard are armed before you charge.

 

They are relatively weak on the AA. War Walkers and the Dark Reaper Exarch only (not counting their fliers). Tau allies fill that gap nicely.

 

Sadly, this kind of pushes CSM even more towards baledrakes and blastmasters.

[Prot]

I think an "octo-cannon" set up for a Havoc squad is going to be one of our best weapons against the Eldar, by which I mean Havocs with four autocannons manning a quad cannon on an ADL. The ADL will protect them against the myriad ways the Eldar have of penetrating power armor. Plus, as Prot pointed out, the quad gun is probably the single greatest threat to the Crimson Hunter we can put on the table.

Actually in my Iron Warriors army that is my setup currently, and has been for one of my standard lists for a while. I will probably stick it out even longer considering all the things you just mentioned.

 

Very good idea with this Prot, I think we should do this for every army!

 

Couple of questions/thoughts, what about fielding a large amount of AV 13 on the board? Say if someone has a fair amount of Decimators and Predators, would they be more survivable than the AV 12 fiends and defilers? Against the Wraithknight and high toughness units, wouldn't a BM prince do a good job of taking these guys down? Seems like he'd be pretty awesome if you can get him there in one piece.

Thank you Tanith, and thanks very much to adding to it. AV13 is a great idea, but for me it is honestly not tested. It's a good question though. I'm not sure how that would play out. I do expect to see lots of fire prisms and inevitably they will treat a Predator the same as a Forgefiend, except one gets a Daemon save.

 

I like the idea of a BM prince, however I think Eldar are extremely well equipped for high toughness foes. Illic Nightspear and friends could be a nightmare, as well as the vehicles I truly believe will bring a ton of mid strength weaponry. I could very well be wrong, it's very early and a Daemon Prince might work just awesome. I honestly haven't used one in months due to the cost. Please give it a shot; I'd love to hear how it turns out.

 

 

Ok, today I had two Doubles games and one of them was Space Wolves and the new Eldar. The table turned out with me facing the Eldar. Now I was aware of the Hatred of Slaanesh but I was not that worried about it. In truth the Noise Marines with Blastmasters prospered against the Eldar. Allow me to elaborate:

 

AV 12 is squishy against every army but I have found my Forgefiend and Maulerfiend work wonders. Hadesfiend is absolutely brutal against Eldar vehicles, wraith things and to some extent Jetbikes but the true star was the Maulerfiend. It killed with ease a Wave Serpent, it survived a hell of return fire and it even tackled a Farseer in melee for two turns thanks to its ++. Since it is Beast it surprised my two adversaries with its speed for it was able to caught a moving squad after they fired and ran.

That is awesome feedback. Thank you.

This is an angle I couldn't really write about with your Blastmasters as I haven't played them since flirting with Emperor's Children for a while there. So I never even thought of a unit like that, but that's great to hear. I LOVE hearing the Forgefiend and Maulerfiend kicked arse. I think the Maulerfiend is so unappreciated. I agree they feel so fragile but they are a lot of fun in multiples and can wreak havok on anything that isn't really geared for walker style combat.

 

 

 

 

Very interesting right up. I dont know when ill be fighting Eldar next but i shall endeavor to keep your thoughts in mind.

 

on a side note, how do you use terminators successfully? i always find that they get shot to death very quickly if they are even remotely aggressive.

Thanks HJL! I use terminators in many different ways and they are a staple of most of my lists now. It entirely depends on the rest of my list and this kinda goes beyond the scope of this conversation but I think the biggest mistake people make is they don't actually have a 'tether' to additional support. They drop the Terminators and think they're going to kill everything and win the day. They NEED support. I NEVER drop a unit without having a support 'tether' in place. This support ensures a counter charge if my Termies are in trouble. Of course sometimes I just take multiple Termi-cide units for specialty cannon balls that kill high priority units so I expect them to die in those cases. 3 of them with 2 combi plas + 1 combi melta is my favorite loadout for Termi-cide. Tactical deep strike is huge, it takes practice but they are one of the few units I actually feel we as Chaos have a bit of an edge on that I feel has been lost a bit with the Eldar codex, but we'll see!

 

 

You didn't mention the Warp Spiders. Crazy fast and have the Monofilament rule. Bonus is that they can go after light armor.

 

Sadly, this kind of pushes CSM even more towards baledrakes and blastmasters.

dave, good point about the Spyders. I didn't forget about them, I was just starting to realize my write up was getting so long I didn't want to lose people. :) They are upgraded with their monofiliment as you say, and their warp packs really are something. The shooting rules mean with low initiative, including vehicles, the strength goes up. So as you suggest, they'll be gunning for light armour bigtime, and will have that Battlefocus stuff to remain out of reach afterwards.

 

Yea, I mentioned we do have a heavy reliance on the Heldrakes and that is definitely becoming a bit of a concern, and like I originally said, you -really- don't want your Heldrake coming in before a Crimson fighter unless you have a good line of sight with an anti-AA mount like a Quad or whatever. The blastmasters as I mentioned weren't even something I thought of but it definitely has some merit!

[Kol Saresk]

As a matter of curiosity and clearing up "Idkitus", would I be right in thinking Hatred of Slaanesh means Hatred agaisnt Daemons, Icons and Marks of Slaanesh? So like in a CSM army, a Noise Marine would be Hated while a Khorne Lord wouldn't?

[hornywingythingy]

^ yup, hatred vs all slaanesh marked stuff/demons of slaanesh.

 

Couple of other notes, spiritseers can use the warlock runes, so wraithguard with 2+ armour is a possibility.

 

Warwalkers have battlefocus, so, whilst very expensive with missile launchers, can sit at 48", shoot, then run back out of 48" returning fire, I'm not sure this is worth it, but its a nasty trick.

 

The wraithguard flamers are distort weapons, so any 6's cause instant death...

 

Snipers are dirt cheap now....

 

If people do run cc units, expect karandras in there to give them infiltrate....

 

Tau/eldar alliances are gonna be pure filth, as the codexes cover each others weaknesses very well.

[Tenebris]

Yes, they have Hatred (Daemons of Slaanesh, units with Mark of Slaanesh) so my Noise Marines and Daemonettes of Slaanesh were counted as hated. But it is mostly a fluff thing with a few rerolls here and there, nothing to worry about. This also gives the Eldar -1 to Discipline when in close combat with anything Slaanesh, a thing my Daemonetted exploited well in killing Guardians and Dire Avengers.

 

Now on the Blastmaster. I had the chance to fire it upon Illic and his Rangers and this weapon alone scored me First Blood and Warlord. It is brutal since many Eldar units rely heavily on cover saves for defense and while the battlefield was literally covered in ruins it was a blessing for my tenuous alliance with the Orks. With a few lucky shots it forced Pinning on two squads, I took a hull point off the Serpent, almost killed a Guardian Squad and killed both Illic and his Pathfinders and all this with only two Blastmasters on board. Place them in some solid cover, shield them with some fodder (where my Ork ally Killa Kans excelled) and see them kill double their points. 

 

Now there is also a minus in a Blastmaster army, it is static thus vulnerable to things like lances and the various blasts that the Eldar can pop, but a good use of cover is more than welcome in this case. On a side note I have noticed that while the Eldar have some real mobility and firepower they suffer a lot in the Dawn of War deployment which hinders their hit and run tricks while they excel in the Hammer and Anvil deployment where they have the range needed and the safety of the distance to play with. 

 

The lances while unpleasant when they hit were manageable with some solid firepower, the Forgefiend for example killed off a Vaul battery with little effort. Now the Maledictions were nasty but I loved to see them fail against the ++ of my Fiends. To recap, to kill Eldar you need something that Ignores Cover and you need to have a strong shooting phase. In melee they would try to run always away from you so here the speed of things like a Maulerfiend and Daemonettes was a superb counter to their Battle Focus. 

[Prot]

Killing Illic with a single Blastmaster template? That's priceless.

 

I have an iron warrior squad with two of those in it. The plan was they are WYSIWYG but they are unpainted, and I was thinking they could be an experiment into hybrid weaponry so all I have to do is give my lord a mark and they are troops. That is very sweet though because literally to be effective, Illic can't stay out of range.

 

Maulerfiend speed is a good counter to Battle Focus. I honestly don't know how much CC we'll see in Eldar armies but if a Maulerfiend makes it into anything short of a Wraithlord/Wraithknight, I would think it would be favourable results for the Chaos player.

[Hellios]

Another quick note on Warp Spiders. I haven't done the Maths (but someone else has apparently), Warp Spiders supposedly provide a more point efficient Anti-Air unit than War Walkers with Flakk Missiles. Now, they have a shorter range, but they are highly mobile... As Flyers go everywhere they also can probably get close without exposing themselves too much to your ground units. That being said, If you rely on Heldrakes... Heldrakes are pretty good at killing T3 units that only have a 3+ save... So it might be worth putting them high up on your list.

[daveNYC]

Spiders are crazy mobile, but that short range.  Still, with the battlefocus...

I wouldn't be shocked that War Walkers with flakk aren't that efficient.  EML are strangely pricy, and flakk ain't cheap for any army.

[Slayer le Boucher]

Taking Deamons as Allies might be a good way to deal with them.

 

GD or DP with Books of True names, 3-4 Crushers, 8 Hounds and a Soulcrusher.

 

Crushers can be buffed with the Book, givin' them a 3++ save, and they have the speed to take those meddlesome transports( negating those Serpents an Falcons Jinks saves and their bonuses), hounds can be really interessting against a squad with anykind of Psyker in it, not has good has when the collars where 2++ saves vs psy powers, but still.

 

And the Soulcrusher is an AV13 walker with a 5++, plus Deamons being Deamons, and eldar are not marines so they must pass fear tests, not something you must count on, but when it happens, its always a good thing.

 

Also his Str8 pie being an assault weapon, you can always use the harvester cannon with your normal BS (unlike the defiler who can only Snapshot his reaper AC after firing the Battlecannon).

[Prot]

You guys are making a REALLY good point for Emperor's Children but 2 things dissuade me: I just painted a Heldrake in IW colours and that took forever. Also I just read Angel Exterminatus and from the EC point of view...without spoilers, it was just plain weird. lol

[Slayer le Boucher]

Well EC and Weird goes together hand in hand, with a big snort of crack...

[Tenebris]

The Angels Exterminatus EC are just in the first phase of wierd...trust me it gets much much wierder in the following ten millenia.

 

Oh keep in mind the Eldar get -1 Discipline in Assaults against MoS and Slaanesh Daemons. This makes the Daemonettes some of the nastier units that you can put against the Eldar for at the sudden most of their infantry are Ld 7 against them, and you have a reasonable chance to proc Fear. Unless every squad is covered with a Warlock you can and you will frighten those objective sitting Guardians and even Dire Avengers and their like since overall army Ld is 8. 

[minigun762]

I do like the Eldar's buff/debuff rule when fighting Slaaneshi units. Very fluffy.

[daveNYC]

And it's a rule that's likely to be used a lot, what with Blastmaster squads and Daemonettes being a pretty solid (and fluffy) army.

[Spaz431]

Another quick note on Warp Spiders. I haven't done the Maths (but someone else has apparently), Warp Spiders supposedly provide a more point efficient Anti-Air unit than War Walkers with Flakk Missiles. Now, they have a shorter range, but they are highly mobile... As Flyers go everywhere they also can probably get close without exposing themselves too much to your ground units. That being said, If you rely on Heldrakes... Heldrakes are pretty good at killing T3 units that only have a 3+ save... So it might be worth putting them high up on your list.

Please tell me how a warp spider can work anti-air? In the rules, no blast weaponry can be used to hunt flyers. Whoops, I checked my brain. I'm used to using the shadow weaver off my VWB, that monofilament is a blast.

Off the Night Lords side of my brain, do you think converted Oblitorators would be sufficient against the new eldar, being able to switch to a missile, to a las cannon, to a plasma, turn by turn would wreek such havoc upon the pointy eared autocrats.

[Godhead]

Taking Deamons as Allies might be a good way to deal with them.

 

GD or DP with Books of True names, 3-4 Crushers, 8 Hounds and a Soulcrusher.

 

Crushers can be buffed with the Book, givin' them a 3++ save, and they have the speed to take those meddlesome transports( negating those Serpents an Falcons Jinks saves and their bonuses), hounds can be really interessting against a squad with anykind of Psyker in it, not has good has when the collars where 2++ saves vs psy powers, but still.

 

And the Soulcrusher is an AV13 walker with a 5++, plus Deamons being Deamons, and eldar are not marines so they must pass fear tests, not something you must count on, but when it happens, its always a good thing.

 

Also his Str8 pie being an assault weapon, you can always use the harvester cannon with your normal BS (unlike the defiler who can only Snapshot his reaper AC after firing the Battlecannon).

 

The soul grinders pie plate is ordinance as well. So he will also be snap firing his harvested cannon after shooting the phlegm bombardment.

[zyl-]

It seems that slaanesh is just the general answer to xenos threats for us, while nurgle seems to be a better answer to marine threats (give or take some opinion).

 

I wonder where the Jeske is to weigh in on this stuff.. did he perhaps rage quit when the eldar weren't broken enough to suit him?

[Gree]

I actually had a bunch of posts here before the site crashed and took off two weeks worth of posts, but I'm posting up what I've learned while playing 6th edition more.

 

Anyway, best counter to Eldar is Slaanesh, as far as I can see. I've finding more and more the Anti-Eldar lists I make tend to center around Noise Marines because they counter Eldar just that well.

 

I've been stomped hard by Eldar players in the past, but I've think I've got a good counter to him.

 

Essentially it's the following=

 

Slaanesh Lord w/ Brand. Goes with Noise Marines, mans Quad-Gun

2 Units of Noise Marines w/IoE Sonics and Blastmasters

1 Unit of CSM w/ MoN and Autocannon

2 Units of Autocannon Havocs

Heldrake

Aegis Line w/Quad Gun

 

I usually like to take Rhinos in an armored rush, but I've increasingly been finding that less and less plausible a strategy in 6th, especially against armies like Eldar, Tau and IG gunlines. That and I'm really not going to try and compete with the Eldar in the maneuver game.

 

Basically gunline inside an Aegis line with guys spread out. Mostly because my chief Eldar opponent loves taking two Fire Prisims. I've found to my experience that you really want to bring autocannons over lascannons against Eldar and Blastmasters are worth their weight in gold against Eldar, especially with Blastmasters vs Eldar tanks.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

It seems that slaanesh is just the general answer to xenos threats for us, while nurgle seems to be a better answer to marine threats (give or take some opinion).

I have to agree. It's a pity for Khorne and Tzeentch centric players or Undivided players who don't take Cult Troops. I'm not saying they can't win against Eldar, but it's going to be hard against a well-built Eldar list.

 

I used to play mostly Khorne and Nurgle-based Black Legion and know I'm shifting heavily to a Nurgle/Slaanesh combo, depending on wheter I face MEQ or Xenos.

[daveNYC]

So that's like pure static gunline.  Given the Eldar's mobility, do you end up dependent on the Heldrake for killiness? (depending on terrain and LOS)

 

Your main opponent run allies?