Anyone else fought the foul eldar xenos with new dex yet?

[Theredknight]

As it says,

I played a game against them the other day.

Those rending re rolling misses 20 guardians are so painful, you can wave bye bye to at least 4 marines with FNP there.

Psychic isnt to bad, if you got a hood :-)

I was shot to peices t1, he castled in, and I couldn't break in. I called it when I just had a few assault marines left after that..

 

So guess I'm seeking advice!

[teblin]

If their troops are a problem, try running a Mechanized list, with Vindis, Preds, Dreads etc. Or maybe IG allies with some heavy armour/SPGs.

[Demoulius]

I had a game scheduled for today but RL intervened :(

Ive seen up close and personal (as in I sat half a meter away from a game) what the codex can do though... Jetbike heavy lists are NASTY! Can move, shoot, and then turbo boost 36 inches away if they want Guy ran a 1000 point lists, tabled his opponent and only lost 6 bikes total. Oh, and they get jink and if a added warlock has conceal theyre nigh impossible to kill with shooting

Mind that most of their "rending" shots are 12 inch range though so they need to get close. Models aside from bikers are in charging range when they can fire. I think dire avengers have slightly more range, 18 inch if im not mistaken but still need to get close!

At the other hand then he ran a foot slogging list and the game ended with his wraithlord beeing the sole remaining model on the table. Some lists are alot tougher then others

AFAIK they crumble when you reach combat though. All that made him powerfull were his cover saves and simply not beeing there to be shot at. The table was pretty terrain heavy though so that very highly in his favour. If you can get in there and kick them in the face they either die to a man, get overrun or are stuck in combat with no real way to kill you. (wraithmodels aside)

Having said all this, its more or less second hand experience havent played them myself yet.

[Theredknight]

I had a game scheduled for today but RL intervened :(

Ive seen up close and personal (as in I sat half a meter away from a game) what the codex can do though... Jetbike heavy lists are NASTY! Can move, shoot, and then turbo boost 36 inches away if they want Guy ran a 1000 point lists, tabled his opponent and only lost 6 bikes total. Oh, and they get jink and if a added warlock has conceal theyre nigh impossible to kill with shooting

Mind that most of their "rending" shots are 12 inch range though so they need to get close. Models aside from bikers are in charging range when they can fire. I think dire avengers have slightly more range, 18 inch if im not mistaken but still need to get close!

At the other hand then he ran a foot slogging list and the game ended with his wraithlord beeing the sole remaining model on the table. Some lists are alot tougher then others

AFAIK they crumble when you reach combat though. All that made him powerfull were his cover saves and simply not beeing there to be shot at. The table was pretty terrain heavy though so that very highly in his favour. If you can get in there and kick them in the face they either die to a man, get overrun or are stuck in combat with no real way to kill you. (wraithmodels aside)

Having said all this, its more or less second hand experience havent played them myself yet.

Il give you a little run down of lists

Eldar:

Beardy fw thing with large blast/torrent str 8 ap2 rule

10 avengers w wave serpent

20 guardians x2 scatter lasers

20 corsairs (jet inf)

5 rangers

6 reapers and exarch.

Wizard

5 scorps and exarch

6 howling banshees

Wraithlord

Another wizard

Me

2x -ass squads x10 w flamers

Sang priest with Jp hand flamer

Devs x4 ml

Libby

9 sternguard pod 5 combi meltas.

Sang priest storm bolter

Tac squad flamer hvy bolter

Sgt combi flamer

Assault squad x 10 drop pod x2 plasma

Storm raven hurricanes ass can and tl mm

Game

Was kill points.

He'd castled up almost entire army in a 15 inch bubble.

I podded sterns and tacticools, Combat squadded sterns didn't even glance the av 12 vehicle as was just out of melta range :-(

Other squad shot the wall.

Tacticals flamed the reapers and warlord, caused 2 wounds despite hitting 4 each.

Rapid fore bolters another 2.

Moved up my ass marines, rolled 1 and 2 for runs..

Fired devs and missed everything as he'd hidden behind one building (hence bunched)

His turn, spread out, shot with 20 guardians and 20 corsairs, beardy fw tank wraithlord and banshees. killed all sterns and priest, mashed 6 tacticools, inc sarge and flamer dude.

Charged remains with banshees to finish them.

Reapers, dire avengers and striking scorps all shot front ass squad, 7 fall inc special weapons and priest. Kills 5 of te other squad and finished the first squad with a charge from scorpions.

Rangers shot devs killed 1 bolter marine.

I called it after that as there was no way I was going to survive another turn like that. It'd just be him mopping me up and sitting there thinking golly gee?

First time with new rules, 3rd time iv played him..

Reapers are cheaper (?!?!) and come to 2 points more than they used to if you give them flakk missiles.

So..any ideas on this scourge?!

[Theredknight]

Mashing in combats not the problem, it's just getting anywhere near them that is.

 

As we are a combat based army, this has serious repercussions. I could go mech, but reapers will claim at least 1 per turn.

 

Oh forgot to add 6 jetbikes with a jet bike wizard :-)

[Theredknight]

An just also remembered,

 

Fire dragons and exarch in falcon, and 6 swooping hawks (didn't even come on!)

[Demoulius]

Sounds like you had alot of bad luck as well brother. Dont be gloomy after one battle against them

The FW thing sounds like a wraithknight with a suncannon? Its a huge pointsink MC with a 3+ save. He has toughness 8 but is pants in combat. Krak missles/melta supported by a charge should kill him quickly.

As for the gunline he has. He has 2 units somewhat capable of hurting marines in combat (banshees and scorpions) the rest die to combat very quickly. The problem is (I guess) getting there. What hurt you here (imho) that you had some drop pod units that got in his face turn 1. He had no range on anything else so focused his entire army on them. Not so strange that they die to such much firepower....

How points was this army? And if I may ask, why is it all over the place? Youve got both pod marines, jumppack marines and static elements. Ive personally found that trying to go "all-in" tends to go poorly unless your playing very large games (2000+ pts) in where you can affrod to have 1 or 2 squads not support the main advance

I also see alot of flamers in there as well. I personally dont have any in my army but thats due to the heavy number of 3+ saves in there. Guardians are 5+ saves and the rest of their units are either 4+ or 3+ meaning he gets an armour save no matter how you cut it. Local meta aside id try to find a focus for your army. Devote 1 or 2 cheap units (either cheap tacticals or scouts) to objective sitting and throw the rest at your opponent. If he castles up and your squads would die dont drop them near him. Or drop an empty pod at him and let the pod units walk with the rest of the army.

Thats what I would do anyway

[Theredknight]

Hmm, I guess I was trying something new from what id read of his dex, get in his face and pistol whip them.

usually I never use pod units, so thought I'd give it a whirl.

I sat and wrote out a mainly mech army just now.

 

I had flamers mainly because in the last edition his main saves were cover saves, this might have changed now, somewhat.

But it's mainly because I whack 6 or 7 wounds per template wounding on 3s.

 

Yes, problem I guess was getting up there with the pod and sucking in fire, however, the other bulk of my army was the assault marines, which took a pounding as well.

I'd intended to wipe out the ap2 weapon, and the reapers, leaving my raven hopefully a shot at surviving

(you can't take jink saves when shot at by reapers, so with 2 shots each, str 7 I believe, and exarch with 3. I was looking at 17 str 7 shots which I couldn't jink against)

 

The assault marines would stomp up relatively unscathed and mashed in combat.

 

The fw thing is a warp hunter. It's horrendously under costed, from the eldar ia book. 130 points I think. I don't agree with it but.. What can I say, it's a fw thing, they are allowed now!

[Demoulius]

AFAIK... FW models are only allowed with your say so. Then again I never play against them so that might have changed? while flamers effective at flushing out guardians on foot the biker ones have a 3+ save and toughness 4 greatly reducing the worth of the flamer. Most things in their dex have a 4+ save or better. That said 1 or 2 exceptions aside (like all wraiths) theyre basicly all toughness 3 so its incredibly easy to wound them. Warlocks with conceal can really make biker guardians nasty though. With their jink save getting improved to a 3+ cover save (so making them 3+/3+cover) theyre pretty resiliant to fire. Combat though theyre still squishy. Problem is catching them

His list seemed pretty static and footslogging it for the most part. He had some mech elements (horribly overpriced transports btw) and while theyre mobile and have decent armour they still (should) die easily to AT fire. Reapers, while nasty at shooting are also very pricey so they come at a cost. He dident have much that could hurt your storm raven though? Might be worth it to try using it as a transport. Its a good way to get them close to the action of nothing else but also risky and a little "eggs in 1 basket" kind of thing... So il leave that to you :)

What do you mean with "wizard" and corsairs though? Im not familair with those If the "wizards" are warlocks he can only attach them to guardian units. He cant attach them to anything else. Also, again: how many points was this game? Might aid us to formulate some advice :)

[Morticon]

why they re-rolling misses?

[Boomkapow]

Sounds like tac squads in rhinos may be solid. Deploy, rapid fire, mount up or move on.

[Memento Of Prospero]

why they re-rolling misses?

 

Guide

 

Eldar are a glass cannon army. they hit hard, but they can't take a hit back. Couple that with a frag cannon dread and a ASM squad with 2 flamers, sergeant with 2 hand flamers, you will toast all his infantry on the drop.

 

Missile launchers and meltas are not effective against a wraith knight. that thing has 6 wounds and you would on 4+. That's no bueno if he is smart and advances in cover you are looking at 24+ shot to kill it. Sternguard will make short work of it with 2+ poisoned shots. 

 

"wizard" I am guessing is a farseer?

[Theredknight]

Lol yes I meant Farseer, thru just look so fantasy esque, and wizard title suits better!

 

Ah but flamers remove cover saves, a jink is a cover save, so he'd be taking armour saves right?

 

@ Morticon Guardians have a special rule now, if one of their (up to 2) scatter laser platforms hits the enemy unit your shooting at, ALL subsequent shots from your unit re roll misses...not bad for some cheap old guardians eh?

 

@ dem those reapers will glance the heck out of the raven unfortunately. He can't blow it up, but with str 7 reaper cannons he doesn't have to. Cast guide on them, and almost certainly bye bye 230 pts model. (Can't take jink saves when shot at by reapers,due to rangefinder)

Corsairs are fw again, basically jet pack guardians. So they can move, shoot, move on assault phase.

 

Iv considered whirlwinds, maybe bopping a couple of those out, but then by t2 or 3 these become largely redundant due to combats.

[Theredknight]

Ah, just re read the listing, only the model can re roll misses after scatter laser, it's basically talking about tanks then. The unit re rolling will be guide :-)

[Baba Lem]

@ Morticon Guardians have a special rule now, if one of their (up to 2) scatter laser platforms hits the enemy unit your shooting at, ALL subsequent shots from your unit re roll misses...not bad for some cheap old guardians eh?

 

Laser Lock only works on the model. Not the squad. So, if a War Walker has a Scatter Laser and a Star Cannon, he rolls the Scatter Laser first (and if he hits) all other weapons on the model count as twin-linked. That does not count for squads or other models in the squadron, however.

 

Edit: Ninja'd.

[Demoulius]

Like the 2 before me said, only the model can reroll misses

@wolf_pack: LOL!!!!!!! thats brilliant :D sums up farseers pretty nicely

[Memento Of Prospero]

@wolf_pack: LOL!!!!!!! thats brilliant sums up farseers pretty nicely

UNSPEAKABLE POWER!

[Theredknight]

Yes.. Iv told him about that now, new dex so let him off it with the learning!

Still stupid wizards casting guide doesn't help either!

[Hellios]

 

 

Eldar are a glass cannon army. they hit hard, but they can't take a hit back. 

 

I would warn people to be careful. An Eldar army can be tough. Especially their vehicles. Luckily you normally don't face that many because they cost so much. The key isn't to destroy Eldar units but to stop them from doing what they are supposed to do. For example a unit with 10 melta guns can ruin pretty much anythings day. If you immobilize their transport (you don't need to destroy it) they aren't so dangerous anymore, even stopping it for a turn gives you breathing space.

 

Target priority is key. What is your greatest strengths and weaknesses? How will the Eldar exploit your weaknesses to take away your strength? Stop those units from doing that a turn at a time. Pick off exposed units. If you can take the initiative away from the Eldar player (don't let them fight on their terms) and pin his army down, you will win in a war of attrition.

[teblin]

If you can take the initiative away from the Eldar player (don't let them fight on their terms) and pin his army down, you will win in a war of attrition.

 

 

Agreed! Marines are good in a war of attrition. Sure, they're often outnumbered, but they're tough and courageous (High Ld, ATSKNF etc.).

[Demoulius]

Yes.. Iv told him about that now, new dex so let him off it with the learning!

Still stupid wizards casting guide doesn't help either!

To be fair, I had to read the rule like 3 times as well before I understood what it said myself

Easy to make mistakes with a new dex :)

[Mr.darkness]

Earlier on you said that the bikes can move shoot and turbo boost ( I tried to quote but my computed just messed up), but they definitely can' t do that. Turbo boosting takes place instead of shooting, and battle focus specifically denies poeple who cannot run any advantage. They can do the 2d6 move away if they want. This should make them much easier to catch with assault marines, because it will basically be who rolls higher on their 2d6 as to whether or not they are charged

 

As for eldar in general, their wave serpents are to be feared. They should be armed with a scatter laser, and will probably be shooting their serpent shield every turn, so that is d6+1 ignores cover S7 pinning shots. 

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

I have noticed Whirlwinds making a comeback in the game and a well placed Whirlwind barrage can cut throw a massed guardian squad easily.

[Demoulius]

Earlier on you said that the bikes can move shoot and turbo boost ( I tried to quote but my computed just messed up), but they definitely can' t do that. Turbo boosting takes place instead of shooting, and battle focus specifically denies poeple who cannot run any advantage. They can do the 2d6 move away if they want. This should make them much easier to catch with assault marines, because it will basically be who rolls higher on their 2d6 as to whether or not they are charged

 

As for eldar in general, their wave serpents are to be feared. They should be armed with a scatter laser, and will probably be shooting their serpent shield every turn, so that is d6+1 ignores cover S7 pinning shots. 

I grabbed the rulebook and reread the rule. You are indeed correct, specialy since it mentions the following "units that cannot run cannot benefit from this rule"

 

While its abit odd that the bikes then have the rule it would indeed mean that they cannot benefit from it :)

 

A local player ran his eldar and was nigh unstoppable with the "run and turbo boostin" that he was doing. This is a local player thats pretty good and people dont often question him when hes talking about rules and such. Hes more or less looked up to. Likewise I dident question him either because an ok guy and probably dident do it wrong on purpose but I had to correct him earlier on "look out sir" as well. He told people that the closest one always gets hit while the owning player can choose. Big difference...

[bystrom]

Actually, the GW rulebook FAQ says that Lo,S affects the closest model to the character (though I haven't bothered looking at the exact sentence it replaces).