Sniper Scouts

[Sanguis militis]

Hey folks, have a couple quick questions for the BA community. I have a 500 point game coming up and I'm thinking of tossing in 5 scouts with sniper rifles in to round out my army since elites and heavy support aren't allowed. The scouts would be taking the place if my usual sternguard squad. That being said, I've never actually used scouts before or even seen them used. Plus I've never used not seen the sniper rifles so I'm at a complete loss as to how to use them or even what the sniper rifles' value means.

 

So I guess my questions are one, are sniper scouts worth taking at this point cost and two, what and how do you use the sniper rifles? (What do they wound on, what should i prioritize shooting with them, any special rules I should know, etc.)

 

If it helps my list will look something like this:

 

Divination priest, couple of dual heavy bolter speeders, 1-2 5 man assault squads with some melta, and then the scouts.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Snipers always wound on 4+ and have rending. they are great for high toughness values. Give them close and stick them in cover where they can hold your objective.

[BAHERSH]

Hmm, I'm not sure if there's great value at 500pts. Sniper Scouts are really only useful for 2 things: scoring and trying some lucky shots at MC's and/ or specific characters.

 

I believe the Sniper Rifles work like this: roll to hit (3+ for Serg, 4+ for Scouts). On a 6 to hit, the scout is able to choose which model in the unit he shot at (as opposed to closest model). Roll to wound (4+ always wounds). On a roll of a 6, the rifle is rending and offers no armor save. I may have gotten this slightly wrong, so someone correct me if this is the case.

 

They're a pretty good gun for high toughness units/ MC's, and if you're really lucky, you can pick off a special weapon or unit sergeant. The real problem is their lack of volume. 4 scouts that fire their rifles will average 2 hits and 1 wound per turn, which may only end up rending once per game. Of course, they also have the ability to pin units, which is nice.

 

Support wise, MM Attack Bikes/ more HB Speeders/ Baal Predators are going to do a lot more for you. Only get the scouts if you need one more scoring unit that you want to sit back. I don't think my scouts have ever come close to winning their 90 pts back. At best, they maybe put one wound on a MC. So far, my bolter scouts have done slightly better, but are still pretty pathetic most of the game.

[Sanguis militis]

I don't have access to my codex ATM, sniper rifles are also 36' range right? I like the idea of shotguns btw being assault weapons and all that but I'm under the impression scouts are a unit I really don't want to be getting into close combat. Also how do you feel about giving then either a heavy bolter or middle launcher? I don't plan on moving the scouts at all unless they absolutely have to.

 

Is there anything special about their deployment? I can't remember if they have infiltrate and/or outflanking. Basically, do they deploy normally and if not how exactly/ where do I set them up?

 

Thank for the quick reply btw!

[Sanguis militis]

Oh and I would love to use a Baal this game but the rules won't allow it (no armour 12+).

 

Since I only have 10 assault marines in 2 squads I figured a small squad of scouts would make a nice, cheap scoring unit. But even though they are cheap the more and more I think about it the more I think 2 MM attack bikes may work better since they will straight up murder anything with an armour value this round (av 11 max won't stand up to 1-2 melta shots)

 

Only thing that may prevent me from using them is I believe the rules for this round may restrict toughness values to a max of 4 but if it is indeed a max of 5 ill scrap the scout squad all together.

 

I've just been reading up on all these stories about scouts wasting MCs and terminators like its nobody's business I figured I should try it myself

[Theredknight]

Depends. If your going to infiltrate up, theyl be closer to your enemy, and therefore you'd be better off with bolters. Also snipers are heavy, so you'd be snapshooting and therefore hitting on 6s. Again bolters would be the better choice for mobile scouts.

Shottys are ok v eldar etc with t3.

And make sure you take cam cloaks, that extra +1 cvr save helps a lot if you keep them in some ruins say!

[Sanguis militis]

Yeah the plan was to park their asses in a building a snipe away. I don't expect to move the squad at all, especially if I attach a heavy bolter/ missle launcher.

[Demoulius]

If theres an enemy flier on the board and you want to move your scouts consider moving them and making them fire at it ^_^

Most of the times theyre pretty poorly armoured so its not impossible to damage them with a good rending shot. Does require some amazing dice rolling though

[Boomkapow]

In a 500 point game, yea, they're cheap, but I can't really imagine in 500 points your opponent is going to take anything worth targeting. And against t3 guardians, you'd be better off with a 4 rocket dev squad. more expensive, but still cheap for what they'll do.

[knife&fork]

Mephiston

2*Assault squads with razorbacks

 

done

 

:P

[Morticon]

Mephiston

2*Assault squads with razorbacks

done

So are your friendships!!!

[kdruthless]

If your scouts fall victim to the red thirst and you throw in a powerfist they can spring more than a couple of surprises in combat. Not as ood as regular marines of course, but they are almost constantly underestimated by opponents.

 

That being said, for a small game like this i'd enquip them with bolters, and a heavy weapon. Sniper riles aren't going to be too relevant at 500pts and if they infiltrate and scout they can cause some pretty serious problems from turn 1 onwards, especially if hidden in cover

[Demoulius]

Combat scouts are in some ways superior to assault marines. When in combat with bloodletters for example same drawbacks as assault marines, just as many attacks and cheaper.

But we were talking about sniper scouts here renember?

For 75 points (with either weapon setup) you cant really go wrong with scouts if you just want to squat them down on an objective snipers got range though and if you place them accordingly the "heavy" statline shouldnt be to much of a drawback as they can just sit still. For 10 points drop a missle launcher in there and they can be a threat to a wide range of things for a cheap pricetag :)

Specialy in low point games (and id call 500 pts games just that ) a cheap objective holding unit is key imho.

[kdruthless]

I was just making the point that immediately running towards the sniper rifles for scouts might not be the best way forward, and I fail to see why that's not a valid viewpoint.

 

Sniper Scouts work, there is no doubt about that. But id seriously consider lobbing a heavy weapon in there too

[Demoulius]

Scouts have different options available to them, thats a fact.

 

The OP wants to use them to babysit an objective and sit at a distance beeing a nuisance. While sniper rifles arent game breakingly awesome they can get precision shots and/or rending. A single failed save also forces a pinning test. If you add a heavy bolter or missle launcher you increase the scale of a threat that they can be. (at a price of course) If you give them bolters however theyre just subpar tacticals and arent really doing anything a tactical cant do better. If you give them cloaks theyre the same price with a worse BS.

 

Combat blades are a nice cheap assault marine substitute if the reduction in movement, WS and AS isent such an issue. A full scout with a PW/PF can indeed be pretty menacing but only if used against the right target. Theyre a good unit to throw at genestealers, bloodletters, howling banshees and other such sorts of nasties that turn assault marines into a red paste fast. These examples also dont hit combat scouts easier then they hit the assault marines, punch through their armour (the AP3 and rendings hits do anyway) whilst the scouts hit the enemies with the same to hit, to wound and number of attacks. Effectivly achieving the same but losing less points per model lost.

 

That all said: For what the OP wants to use them for though id really recommend the sniper rifles.

[TheHarrower]

Every time I've taken scouts with sniper rifles they've under performed. Especially if you only take 5 of them. BS3 really hurts and wounding on a 4 gives you only 1 or 2 wounds per round on average. Too bad we don't get a heavy weapon until we take 10 Tactical Marines or that would be the better bet.

 

Do you have to take a HQ? I've had success with 2 Assault Squads in Razorbacks w/ Heavy Bolters, a Land Speeder Typhoon, and a Devastator Squad with 3 Missile Launchers and a Lascannon. Although 2 Land Speeders with double Heavy Bolters and Prescience would be pretty sweet!