The Templars of Sigisumund VERSION 2

[JusticarErictheblue]

This is my first IA any advice or views are appreciated, unfortunately due to my pc being...out of commission... I am having to use a slightly older and not as well written version of the text, on my ipad.

 

 

 

The Templars of Sigismund

 

ORIGIN:

 

21st/26th founding: 738.M41 according to some records. Other records says 21st founding.

Successors of: Imperial Fists?/Black Templars? Ultramarines

Founded as a experiment, The Templars of Sigismund were an experimental mix of stable gene-seeds in order to create an even more stable seed, while it did work to an extend there have been some problems, in form off agitation, and the fact that one in eleven candatites will be poisoned by the gene seed over time. They have an overbearing sense of humour! Shocking! This has led some Astarte’s to view them as ‘disrespecting’ war and their duty, indeed when the Chapter-Master of the Writhing Serpents complained the inquisition saying he thought it was proof of Slaaneshi worship the Inquisitor Lord Maxis Von Beken commented on the uplifting of morale it had on the Imperial guard who had fought beside them. This signalled the end of alliance of serpent and templars, that had lasted so long they would view each other as brothers

 

They are a system based chapter, controlling a system consisting of: 2 uninhabitable worlds, a mining world a hive world and a death world. Their chapter fortress is located on the death world which bears the name Draconis Vict. They maintain exceptionally close ties with the Black Templars and will answer any call that they receive from said chapter. They however are drifting away fromall communication and aid with Ultramarines with whom they have a grudge.

The origin of this grudge involved the chapters coming to blows, an act that threatened to drag many more chapters into a costly and bloody war, thankfully the inquisition and Other Chapter Masters managed to diffuse the situation, resulting in the banning off these two noble chapters fighting in the same system. Apart from the leaders of the chapters involved and a few select inquisitors none know the cause of this... unrest apart from both chapters participated in a classified action alongside Inquisitor Maxis Von Beken resulting in severe losses to the Templars of Sigismund and an Ultramarine captain being killed by the Company Marshall (Captain), Suspect Alpha legion, and pyscich manipulation.

 

 

Their present Chapter Master Vratislav Thurich Eorlingal, slayer of Slythas is an exceptional warrior who has even faced the dreaded Abbadon in combat and managed to severely wound him, though this greatly angered Abbadon who then flung Vratislav across the temple in which the battle raged, Vratislav was grievously wounded and only survived due to the timely arrival of a great crusade fleet of Black Templars led by Helbrecht himself, the wounded Abbadon, new he stood little chance against the might of both forces and fled, but only after promising Vratislav that there would be a reckoning to which Vratislav, laughed.

 

There are no known reports of any librarians in the forces of the Templars of Sigismund however it is known that there are psykers born in the death world from which most of their recruits are recruited from,. chosen, in a 30 day trial, each participant is given a sword and short bow before being sent in the wilds for 30 days tasked with hunting and slaying a fearsome Harech (Big gnashing teeth cliché monster (very ugly)) when the participant come back he will be forced to complete an extremely dangerous obstacle course and then they will be divided into groups ranging from 3-5 and challenged with facing an Astarte’s warrior those who last more than 35 seconds? are chosen to join the chapter. Anyone who doesn’t is instead trained as crack troops for the PDF’s.

 

 

They have fought Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar and many other races thousands of time, as you would expect a Space Marine chapter to. However they have not fought the Tau.

They currently have very few ground vehicles, after The (entire chapter of)Writhing Serpents, declared Excommunicate Traitors, along with a World Eaters War-band led an army of Traitors into the Templars of Sigismund home system.

 

Needless to say, The Templars of Sigismund, and Black Templars, with whom they have very close ties, which certain inquisitors find suspicous, counter attacked with relish. The war dragged on for 15 years. The main battle was raged on one of the uninhabitable worlds, Cuthlar, when the Strike Cruiser the Serpents Bite, crashed into the planet, Vratislav and the 1st company where separated from the rest of the chapter, trying to get back, they entered tunnels unused, for millennia, dating back to the before the horus heresy, pursued by daemons, and the world eaters, they went deeper and deeper. Vratislav's power sword was shattered whilst slaying a monstrous daemon. As the chaos forces closed in their position, the Templars managed to open the door. before enter they blew the passageway blocking their pursuers path. What they found in the vault changed the tide of the war. As the chaos, forces breached the loyalist lines, a huge rumbling noise came form the cliff face, ancient doors ground opens, revealing the entire first company clad in Cataphractii Terminator armour behind the serried

ranks of the terminators, was properly the scariest sight, a Spartan assault tank flanked by two fell blade, and standing on the top of the S.A.T was Vratislav wielding his since iconic Master crafted Thunder hammer and Storm shield. it was here that Chapter Master Vratislav slew the Chapter Master Slythas, of the serpents and his guard. With this the attacker lost heart and started to flee, only small group of World Eaters survived, the Templars wrath.

After the battle, the Templars of Sigismund Templars of Sigismund gave a fellblade, and halve of the weaponry and armour found in the vault to the Black Templars as a thanks. Though fully rebuilding their chapter is taking time, it is going well the vault, has been fortified, and there have been calls for chapter to make it their fortress. They're second fell bladewas destroyed by a fire prism.

 

Currently their tank numbers are at:

2 rhinos

1 razorback

1 spartan assault tank

2 predators.

 

However due to tactics adopted after their war in the home system, they rarely use these. Instead relying on a sudden orbital barrage before sending in fliers, while forces that have landed near to the battle shortly befor hand rush in guns plasma, making use of cover and terrain taking out vehicle and emplacements before meaning the weaker parts of army, or elite infantry head on.

[Ioldanach]

My initial thoughts (more in-depth thoughts later)...

 

The use of the Black Templars as a parent chapter elicits interesting responses from other players (click on my Avenging Lions link below if you'd like to see an example ;) ). While I agree with the specific conclusion of some, I definitely agree that the use of the use of the Black Templars gene-seed requires careful consideration. Is there a specific reason that you want to use the gene-seed of the Black Templars? I see two elements where this might be necessary - the name and the lack of librarians. I don't think that either specifically requires that the Black Templars be the parent chapter. The Sons of Orar, for example are most likely descended from the Ultramarines Legion, but that doesn't mean that the legendary Orar was their first chapter master. Could you use one/both for your DIY while using some other chapter as the sire? Or could you simply say that the gene-seed of Rogal Dorn through some unidentified chapter was used for your chapter?

 

The second issue is the mixing of gene-seed. As far as I know, the only instance in which this is thought to have happened is the 21st (Cursed) Founding, and the results of the experimentation that took place in the creation of the chapters resulting from that founding can easily be inferred from the parenthetical name. This "problem" can easily be corrected by changing the founding of your chapter to 21st.

 

I'll try to provide more feedback later.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Thanks, I didn't know if mixed geneseed had happend before, I thought I'd read about it but couldn't find anything, as. To why they're black templar descendants, I used to have a small Templar army, there are other reasons, and as to the disapearance of pyskers form the planet, that I don't know.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Oh and the writhing serpents are another home brewed chapter, that went chaos, I might do a IA on them as well, unless some else wants do, they where dark green chest with black legs and thief symbol was a snake writhing around a dagger.

[CantonWC]

Hello

 

I will try to be polite.

 

I will agree with Brule, to a point. There is no absolute rule stating that Black Templars cannot be the predecessors of a new Chapter, but there are a fair amount of points against you. For simplicity's sake I will quote Octavulg:

 

 

You are not the [blank] Templars

Many DIYers like to have the Black Templars be their training cadre (and gene-seed source). However, there are a number of both in-universe and out-of-universe problems with this. Why would the High Lords choose the Black Templars? They're headstrong, violate the Codex, and are completely outside Imperial control, even moreso than the usual Astartes independence. The High Lords would not trust them. Nor would they be a good choice for a training cadre, precisely because of their particular quirks – they'd pass them on to the new Chapter, which would provide the High Lords with another problem chapter. Added to this, there's the fact that most people seem to simply take the opportunity to recreate the Black Templars, thus raising the issue of why the exercise was undertaken in the first place. The Black Templars as a Chapter cadre raise far, far more problems than they solve. If you want a crusading Chapter, both the Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists were such (the Imperial Fists still are). Both use the Emperor's Champion (indeed, even non-Dornian Chapters have been known to do so). You do not need the Black Templars to have similar influences.

 

Mixing gene-seed is also something that is heavily frowned upon. Basically because it carries the implication that you are attempting to do better than the Emperor himself, surely the vilest of heresies. It is also mentioned in the Codex Astartes White Dwarf articles that the genetic material from each of the loyalist Legions was isolated, to prevent cross contamination. Presumably this was done for a reason, so don't do it. What would you get out of mixing gene-seed, anyway? Especially since you write in a feud with the Howling Griffons later on, which seemingly defeats the purpose of mixing in gene-seed from them.

 

 

The Templars of Sigismund were an experimental mix of stable gene-seeds in order to create an even more stable seed, while it did work to an extend there have been some problems, in form off agitation, and the most controversial,... They have been left with an overbearing sense of humour! Shocking!

 

I don't understand. Is this supposed to be a joke IA? And individually, Imperial Fists and Ultramarines gene-seed have been found to be stable enough on their own.

 

 

This grudge has made the chapters come to blows, an act that threatened to drag the Black Templars and many more chapters into a costly and bloody war, thankfully the inquisition and Helbrecht managed to diffuse the situation, resulting in the banning off these two noble chapters fighting in the same system. Apart from the leaders of the chapters involved and a few select inquisitors none know the cause of this... unrest apart from both chapters participated in a classified action alongside Inquisitor Maxis Von Beken resulting in severe losses to the Templars of Sigismund and an Ultramarine captain being killed by the Company Marshall (Captain).





Their present Chapter Master Vratislav Thurich Eorlingal, slayer of Slythas is an exceptional warrior who has even faced the dreaded Abbadon in combat and managed to severely wound him, though this greatly angered Abbadon who then flung Vratislav across the temple in which the battle raged, Vratislav was grievously wounded and only survived due to the timely arrival of a great crusade fleet of Black Templars led by Helbrecht himself, the wounded Abbadon, new he stood little chance against the might of both forces and fled, but only after promising Vratislav that there would be a reckoning to which Vratislav, laughed.

 

 

The one thing that irritates me the most at present is the way you casually name drop stuff everywhere. Quoth the Octavulg:

 

 

Do not piggyback on the official

Your deep and abiding affection for Logan Grimnar and Dante is understandable. However, they did not personally drag your Chapter Master's wounded body from the fray after he saved their lives. Nor was Calgar your Chapter Master's mentor, or his secret godfather. Your chapter should stand on its own - dragging in official characters or organizations simply so your chapter can show off only makes it seem like you can't write interesting and exciting characters without relying on someone else's work.

 

 

Why do you feel the need to be so chummy chummy with Helbrecht, to the point where he'll intercede for you? Why did one of your guys kill an Ultramarine without consequence, without really explaining what the incident was about. Why on earth is your Chapter Master equivalent to the Despoiler himself?

 

The rule we try to abide by in the Liber is that our DIY creations should be able to stand on their own two feet, without having to lean on official Chapters and characters to build up 'street cred.' The reasons being two fold.

 

One, if you were actually buddy buddy with Marshal Helbrecht, you would have been mentioned in the Black Templar IA. If you went one on one with the Despoiler and lived to tell about it, that character would have been mentioned already.

 

And two, piggy backing off the official implies a laziness and lack of ability to write your own original lore, characters, interactions, relationships, etc.

 

 

They have fought Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar and many other races thousands of time, as you would expect a Space Marine chapter to. However they have not fought the Tau.

 

I very much doubt this, if they came from the 26th Founding. That leaves you a little over 250 years to accumulate your honor roll. Tyranids, Tau, Necrons have only arisen in the last few centuries. And if they came from the most recent founding, than their records would clearly show this, and a single record dating back to the 21st would be dismissed as inaccurate.

 

 

They currently have very few ground vehicles, after The (entire chapter of)Writhing Serpents, declared Excommunicate Traitors, along with a World Eaters War-band led an army of Traitors into the Templars of Sigismund home system.

 

...

 

 

I don't really understand the point of this battle. Quoth the Octavulg a third time, because the Octaguide is basically the Liber version of the Codex:

 

 

Battles are boring
Like the book says, in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. By the time anyone gets to your IA, they'll have read about a lot of battles. All writing about a battle does is provide them with something they've seen before, countless times, and distract from the points that are unique about your IA. Read GW IAs, and note how they talk about battles - they set the scene, explain briefly what happened, and talk about the aftermath and what that meant. The battle is important because of what it meant, not what happened in the battle itself. There is no point in planning out a blow-by-blow description of how your Chapter Master fought his archenemy - that's not what's important about that fight. What's important is why they were fighting, who won, and what that meant to later events.

 

What I can gather from the account of the battle is this: It gives you another opportunity to show how buddy buddy you are with the Templars, and it gives you a conveniently placed treasure trove of incredibly rare archeotech including roughly 100 suits of the rarest type of Terminator armour created, which you equip and operate in a remarkably short period of time to stomp a Traitor force. It is simply not believable. And I don't see the point of the battle; it does not illuminate anything about your Chapter.

 

-----

 

In short this thing needs a bit of work. I apologize if all this comes off as a bit too much to you, but I prefer not to mince words. None of this is meant in malice, and I am trying to rein in nastier habits from before I went on hiatus.

 

First I would advise that you look up the DIY Guide and the Octaguide. Take as much or as little as you want from them. But like the Codex itself, they are not documents that should be disregarded or dismissed.

 

Second, I gather that you seem to like the Black Templars. So why not just play them instead? Write up a fighting company that has earned particular distinction and a particular identity over the centuries. That should be simple enough, since the Black Templars have way more Marines than anyone else.

 

If you want a Black Templar style Chapter, that can be done without coming into contact with the Black Templars at all. Being influenced by or friendly with the Black Templars is one thing; but saying that you're a personal friend of Helbrecht and that your guys spend all their time with their Black Templar friends is just not going to fly.

 

Hope this helps

[JusticarErictheblue]

 

 

I can see why you get the impression I am saying that helbrecht is the masters best friend, just that his life was saved, it was just coincedence that he arrived, I could change it, why would the high lords use templars geneseed? Cause they're loyal yes they are too big and headstrong but there are official GW Tenplar successors, and mixing geneseed, I understand you're feeling about the archeotech, I do want to change it slightly, they loose both amazing tanks, but I wanted a way to make up fir the fact they have around. 10 tanks left in the whole chapter and as to the termie armour, I am going to have mostly that kind of termie armour, supporterd by dreadnoughts, and mixed geneseed has been used 21st 13th foundings. As to the humour it's partly due to the fact I couldn't think of a fatal flaw, plus I like the idea of funny marines.

 

 

I need a lot more about their culture.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, though.

[JusticarErictheblue]

I can see why you get the impression I am saying that helbrecht is the masters best friend, just that his life was saved, it was just coincedence that he arrived, I could change it, why would the high lords use templars geneseed? Cause they're loyal yes they are too big and headstrong but there are official GW Tenplar successors, and mixing geneseed, I understand you're feeling about the archeotech, I do want to change it slightly, they loose both amazing tanks, but I wanted a way to make up fir the fact they have around. 10 tanks left in the whole chapter and as to the termie armour, I am going to have mostly that kind of termie armour, supporterd by dreadnoughts, and mixed geneseed has been used 21st 13th foundings. As to the humour it's partly due to the fact I couldn't think of a fatal flaw, plus I like the idea of funny marines.

I need a lot more about their culture.

Thanks for the reply, though.

New thought about another reason that high lords chose Black Templars, they thought it would, help....convince them to be more codex abiding. I will change the feud with the. Griffins, to one where they still talk and fight together, but do not like each other much, as to the flaw, I need ideas

[JusticarErictheblue]

Culture and Personality: they are proud (a bit too much) honourable (most of the time) extremely loyal to the emperor,and to their allies, they, always leave 2 companies at their fortress to secure Thier home system. Every 50 years the entire chapters endeavours too meet together with much story telling, sparring etc. each recruit from the death world is given a masterly forged weapon after their own choice, commonly a sword, which is engraved after each victory.

[CantonWC]

Hello

 

 

I can see why you get the impression I am saying that helbrecht is the masters best friend, just that his life was saved, it was just coincedence that he arrived

 

That's an awfully convenient coincidence.

 

 

but there are official GW Tenplar successors

 

Name them. And just because they have 'templars' in their names does not actually makes them Templar successors.

 

 

and mixed geneseed has been used 21st 13th foundings

 

gene-seed experimentation including mixing gene-seed was allegedly used during the 13th and 21st Foundings. There are no records at all of the 13th Founding and the 21st Founding didn't go so well. Just because something has been done doesn't mean it's wise or feasible to try it again.

 

 

As to the humour it's partly due to the fact I couldn't think of a fatal flaw, plus I like the idea of funny marines.

 

A sense of humor is not genetic. I hope you're not implying that Space Marines in general have no sense of humor.

 

 

I understand you're feeling about the archeotech, I do want to change it slightly, they loose both amazing tanks, but I wanted a way to make up fir the fact they have around. 10 tanks left in the whole chapter and as to the termie armour, I am going to have mostly that kind of termie armour, supporterd by dreadnoughts,

 

 

Why do they have so few tanks?

 

 

2 rhinos
1 razorback 
1 spartan assault tank
2 predators.

 

Even a dirt poor Chapter should have a fair number of Rhino chassis vehicles. And if they don't there must be an explanation for it. At this time your Chapter still, in the course of one battle, found an amazing treasure trove of some of the rarest and most precious technology the Imperium has ever created, all in one place, which they promptly use to curbstomp the opposing force. That is simply not believable.

 

 

New thought about another reason that high lords chose Black Templars, they thought it would, help....convince them to be more codex abiding. I will change the feud with the. Griffins, to one where they still talk and fight together, but do not like each other much, as to the flaw, I need ideas

 

The Black Templars have refused to obey the Codex in 10,000 years. They won't start doing so now.

 

As to the second point. You haven't explained what the nature of the feud is, or the reasons for it. And if you don't have to drag in official Chapters, then don't do it.

 

 

[JusticarErictheblue]

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Templars mentions one confirmed and one rumoured succeesors, there are others, just search black Templar successors into google.

 

And yes it is a convenient coincidence that Helbrecht was there, it a story if he wasn't I'd need a new chapter master and hence an new name;) and I hae choosing or making names for marines.

 

The feuds not actually with the griffins, rather the ultramarins, it means my chapter is disadvantaged as a lot of other chapters dislike them.

They do how ever get on very well with certain inquisitors, though this has aide them it has also been to their detriment.

[JusticarErictheblue]

They have few tanks due to the fighting in their home system, so they have around 80 suits of cattaphracti terminator armour, two dozen dreadnoughts including four contemptors and very very few tanks, and only a small amount of flyers.

Their spartan assault tank doesn't really mean that much considering how few tanks they have, plus it's stationed at the vault.

And it was ine battle but a whole series through the system, sure they found some cool tech, but they got very bloodied in the process, they lost most of their tanks, and a lot of marines, their fleet was damaged.

So how is the tech too much or overkill?

[Conn Eremon]

The wiki only hypothesizes that those two may be successors on the merits of their names only, hence why they're considered rumored. That's that wiki's way of saying it's fan speculation, examples of which can be seen elsewhere in other articles. Lexicanum, generally considered more accurate, mentions no successors.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Really? I thought it was t'other way around! Meh, until games workshop says no templar successors they will be successors of the black Templars. But thanks for telling me lexicanum is better than the wiki. Would having a small numbers of marines over say 400 have organs randomly fail be a better flaw?

[JusticarErictheblue]

Update: the Templars of sigismund currently have 4 companies in the okaguwar (please give me a better name) system, fighting the ork waaaaghh Kork. 1 company stationed near cadia. 1 fighting a necron invasion of forge world Borl. With 2 having been requested by the Inquisitor lord Maxis Von Baken. The last two companies 4th and 9th ate stationed in their home system.

 

A bit more about their organisation: the chapters captains are known as company marshals, chaplains as preachers, tech marines as high smiths.

 

Sergeants are known as knights, standard initiates/marines as men at arms. Scouts are called rangers.

 

Apothecaries are known as physciacians

[JusticarErictheblue]

The chapter has records showing its found as 21st which means one of the cursed foundings if true hence it's ok to talk about mixed geneseed. I agree it's not sensible, but it was done and now the consequences must be experienced.

 

The feud involved: alpha legion, traitors both ultarmines and.... Templars of sigismund, daemons, a headstrong stubborn chapter and a proud chapter.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Now only rumoured to be Templar successors, partly to their zeal and also due to their close ties. Nothing at all to do with howling griffins.

[Demus Ragnok]

Alright this just me so take this or leave it whatever you like...

 

The Templars of Sigismund are...the Black Templars. See how that happens? No. Okay allow me to expand a little then.

Sigismund was the founding High Marshall of the Black Templars. When you say "Templars of Sigismund" it implies Templars that belong to Sigismund and my brain jumps automatically to...Black Templars who were founded with Sigismund as their master.

 

Anyway that's just me. Names are important, they convey a message , make a first impression, and this name (to me) sounds like a complicated way of saying Black Templars. Because Black Templars are Templars that were led by Sigismund. But that's just me.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Sigismund was the first high Marshall yes, but he was first and properly formost, an exceptionly gifted hero of the imperium, as my chapter has Imperial Fists Geneseed in the mix, why not name them after the hero of the former legion. But thanks for the tip, I hadn't thought about like that.

[Marshal Rohr]

Helbrecht has never fought Abaddon. He was elected in 89, led his crusade against the Cythor Fiends until 98 when we went to Armageddon and has been personally hunting Ghazghkull. It is impossible for him to have fought Abaddon as the Despoiler was not in the Ghoul Stars, at Armageddon, or hitch hiking on Ghazghkull's hulk.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Helbrecht has never fought Abaddon. He was elected in 89, led his crusade against the Cythor Fiends until 98 when we went to Armageddon and has been personally hunting Ghazghkull. It is impossible for him to have fought Abaddon as the Despoiler was not in the Ghoul Stars, at Armageddon, or hitch hiking on Ghazghkull's hulk.

And A you know not where this system or planet was do you? And does abaddon always stay very close to the eye of terror? No.

[Leonaides]

I think the point is that we know where and who Helbrect was fighting... Him meeting abaddon is the sort of thing that ought to be mentioned in the black templar fluff.

[JusticarErictheblue]

While I appreciate thefeedback I would like to argue my case, does it ever say they actually fought?

[Dark En Raul13]

While I appreciate thefeedback I would like to argue my case, does it ever say they actually fought?

It does not say that they have fought, however the fluff concerning Helbrect never mentions any contact with the despoiler.

I see what your trying to do but this is something that would be mentioned in the Codex.

Adding your own fluff to an already defined character isn't really a good idea.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Ghoul Stars are quite possibly the farthest place in the galaxy from the Eye of Terror.

[JusticarErictheblue]

Currently being totaly reworked.