Terminators on Isstvan III?

[GrandMagnus]

Hi brothers,

 

I was re-reading HH: Betrayal and it mentions on page 44, bottom left, that the loyalist death guard deployed with terminators, so Im wondering if the other 3 legions also would. Its definetly posible, right?

[Sevatar]

I would think so, but not many - the Death Guard, of course, had many more suits than other Legions, but in Betrayal it notes that the marines of Barbarus stock were equipped in veteran roles such as Terminator armour, while the Terrans were mostly tank crews. Go figure :(

[hisdudeness]

My view on it is that Horus was already deploying units oddly, if they pulled TDA from guys that pretty much always use it then there would be even more questions.  Not to mention the honor part, pulling TDA from veterans when there was no real tactical reason to do so would raise even more eye brows. 

 

Same reason there were Dreads and Titans on the ground on the first wave.

[GrandMagnus]

Also I would suppose, since the TDA suits were "invented" during the great crusade they werent considered relics the same way they are in the 41st Millenium. After all, the Adeptus Mechanicus knew how to create more suits if needed so it would not be loss sending them Isstvan III to die.

[MordentHex]

Also I would suppose, since the TDA suits were "invented" during the great crusade they werent considered relics the same way they are in the 41st Millenium. After all, the Adeptus Mechanicus knew how to create more suits if needed so it would not be loss sending them Isstvan III to die.

at that point they where experimental too.  There was no real conformity to TDA, Just different types as the technology advanced. With that said, im sure the suits where valueble but maybe considered obsolite technology sense it was improving so rapidly and although the suits loses where regrettable the impact was minimal to the over all needs of the purge. Besides Pissed off Terminators fighting back on Ist 3 is just to cool. ;)

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Unfortunately we are missing a 'proper' BL work on the DG to cover Isstvan III onwards and much of what is in FotE doesn't really fit the new, larger Legion format. Still good things come to those that wait...

Personally, given the comment in Betrayal on the higher availability of TDA to the DG for 'assault troops', then I think you can safely assume that some squads were deployed as part of the first wave. However, the bulk remained in reserve, along with most of the speeder and jet bike squads. So it might be stretching it to run a 2K loyalist TDA army, but even a couple of 10-man squads wouldn't be unreasonable

[GrandMagnus]

OF course we have to consider that (for example) a Terran EC veteran in TDA still loyal to the emperor would be sent down to die with the rest of the loyalists but he would probably be wearing the Terminator armour. Of course there would not be many of these, but as you said, enough for a squad or 2 from each legion. 

Although I dont think there would be any loyalist justaerin terminators, that just sounds ilogical, but who knows.

[No Foes Remain]

In the Luna Wolves, and later the Sons of Horus, each company had access to at least one terminator squad and said terminators could be old enough to be sticklers for the true ideals of the Great Crusade and would then have been send down to Istvaan III along with the rest of the loyal elements.

 

With this in mind, I doubt that the other three legions wouldn't have had any terminators who were deemed more loyal to the Emperor than their primarch.

 

 

Failing that, claim artistic license and poke the eyes of those who disagree with you.

[hisdudeness]

Or a less violent work around than Vantris's suggestion is to just say that your army is from before the purge.  This way you can claim fluff as needed...want to use TDA-your list is from Pre-purge loyal or after Istvaan V traitors.  No TDA-Istvaan III.  Face it, loyalist  DG/WE/SoH forces are only fluffy during Istvaan III and V.

 

Everyone focuses on Istvaan III (because that's the only fluff we have currently) when there are years worth of Great Crusade battles to be fought.  Blocking your list to a single battle will always be non-fluffy when you play non-Istvann III lists.  

[depthcharge12]

Well I remember somewhere in the Betrayal book (I can probably check and source it for you if you want), that not all of those loyalists were killed down on Isstvaan. The book said something along the lines of, "those few loyalists who remained in orbit weren't safe from the purge either, waiting knives took them at the hour of betrayal yadda yadda yadda"

 

With this in mind maybe you can put together a loyalist force of Termies who remained in orbit with their brothers and were killed in an Order 66 manner or who fought to take control of one of the vessels?

[GrandMagnus]

It sounds interesting. Im mostly interested in knowing this because Im having a pain to choose what to do for my pre-heresy / heresy army. My initial idea was doing Ultramarines but I lost my inspiration very fast and I was thinking I wanted to do my favorite legion, the Luna wolves / loyalist Sons of Horus.

 

If I went for Luna Wolves I would theme them in the Ullanor Crusade, that way I can add lots of allied legions (yay! more colours!) and if I went for SofH the theme would obviously be loyalists fighting on Istvaan III (making an army for each of the 4 legions, small armies of course). I got inspired for the later idea mostly because Galaxy in Flames is a really amazing book and this particular work of art by brother DPA: http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee354/SteffenSJensen/photoshopped%20pics/ECvsWEeye_zpsbf696385.jpg

 

Any suggestions?

[DuskRaider]

Death Guard would have almost definitely had Loyalist portions on Isstvan III equipped with TDA. Also remember, when you're building your army you aren't exactly pigeon-holed into using them as strictly Loyalists each and every time.

[MordentHex]

Dreadnoughts could survive the Orbital attack, we already have an example of that.  Terminator Armor although ponderous could maybe survive the life eater virus but would probably need to seek out some form of shelter from the firestorm. I doubt any legion present had all there terminators side with the Warmaster.  Notably the Worldeaters considering how much contempt Angron had for them and/or many veterans from before him may well have been in terminator squads and I would imagine the Deathguard too also because they had large stocks of the suits available to them.

[GrandMagnus]

Its the second time its been mentioned that the DG had a large arsenal of TDA suits, but I thought that the LW / SofH were the biggest users of these.

[DuskRaider]

I'm sure Sons of Horus had a large stock of TDA, but Death Guard has been of note a large user of Terminators, often used instead of Assault Marines and especially used in boarding actions. That's been the fluff for as long as I can remember (before the HH books, I know that).

[GrandMagnus]

Do you people think the FW Sons of Horus have to many Eye of Horus icons to look good as Luna Wolves?

[DuskRaider]

Shave them off.