Outfitting the Dreadnought (Heavy support slot)

[teblin]

The two twin-linked autocannon pattern looks effective and cheap.

 

Is it worth going for? What are the best ways to configure our basic Dread?

[knife&fork]

It's not bad... but it's not a no-brainer in BA with our fast predators.

 

The basic dread is tricky since AV12 is rather fragile. The close support variants are better bang for the buck in theory, and all the long range configs except dual TLAC are rather weak. 

 

All in all TLAC is a solid choice if it fits the rest of your list. It can even double as extra anti flyer platform.

[Demoulius]

Ive used a TLLC+ML dread in the past and it performed pretty well :) I used him purely as a AV13-AV14 hunter though (if possible, if only weaker vehicles were available hed hunt those)

 

Against massed infantry, fliers or low AV vehicles I can imagine that there are more cheaper and effecient options with more shots.

[Baba Lem]

Riflemen are not so bad against flyers, due to their twin-linked shots. So, if you don't feel like rocking a Raven or an Aegis, one or two make for decent anti-air in smaller games.

[Taranis]

I've had very unsuccessful experience with Rifleman dreads. My advice is to let him keep his fist. Otherwise he tends to become as static as an aegis quad gun.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The problem with A rifleman dread is that a quadgun is much cheaper and actually has skyfire. That is in addition to providing the aegis line.

[knife&fork]

The problem with A rifleman dread is that a quadgun is much cheaper and actually has skyfire. That is in addition to providing the aegis line.

 

That's not really a problem (more of a bonus) since they aren't competing for the same force org slot. A single quadgun doesn't provide a lot of anti flyer fire and paying for the unit to fire it plus the defense line can make it unsuitable to many lists.  

[Memento Of Prospero]

 

The problem with A rifleman dread is that a quadgun is much cheaper and actually has skyfire. That is in addition to providing the aegis line.

 

That's not really a problem (more of a bonus) since they aren't competing for the same force org slot. A single quadgun doesn't provide a lot of anti flyer fire and paying for the unit to fire it plus the defense line can make it unsuitable to many lists.  

 

... It still provides better anti-flyer than the dread will. The Quadgun + line is still cheaper than the dread. So the line is essentially free. Make what you will of it - I can guarantee that a list that wants to use a rifleman dread will have a better use for the line. He is best suited entrenched in the back where he is least likely to receive return fire. Even a near null deploy list can use a quadgun. Mephiston can man it, scounts can man it, Devastator sargeant can man it, etc... there is no real unit tax. Worse case scenario it can fire on it's own.

 

You might as well go Lascannon/Missile launcher and go after targets the Quad wouldn't dent. That might give the dreadnought more value.

[Jolemai]

My 2p:

 

To me using a regular dreadnought is a suitable compliment for lists that have a static back line, i.e. Tactical Squads and Devastators. In the past I have ran them with Missile Launcher and Twin-linked Lascannon but these days I am happy to field them with Assault Cannon Missile Launcher. If I know my opponent will reach my back line, I leave the Power Fist in.

 

A friend of mine often runs them with in foot slog list with Tacticals and Terminators and the results can be interesting...

[knife&fork]

... It still provides better anti-flyer than the dread will.  

 

But you don't have to choose between them, just take both. The aegis is only a good deal if you are ok with having a static fire base. Admittedly the dread isn't quick but with the TLLC+ML or TLAC you are really starting to dip into predator territory without the mobility benefits.

[teblin]

Don't units with Skyfire hit ground units with snap shots only? If that's the case the Dread is far more multi-purpose.

[IK Viper]

I am supprised that this has not been brought up yet but honestly I think that for HS Dreads, the MM is a perfectly viable option.  Its a free gun that lets you deal with armor and have a CC presence to back it up.  I do not rate HS Dreadnoughts in BA simply becasue the Furioso and the DC Dread are tougher and better suited to pushing up field at the enemy.  Honeslty I think the best use of a Dreadnought its to put him in the back as a counter assault threat protecting your scoring guys, with a gun of your choice that he can fire off from range to add to the battle. 

 

I see HS Dreadnoughts as a tactical unit.  They are decent at several things but not great at anything really.  I think he could make a respectable contribution sitting in a ruin beside an objective protecting smaller troops squads that are tasked with holding the objective.  In this role I would probably keep him stock, or if I had the points upgrade his gun arm to tote what ever weapon your army is lacking, if you have plenty of las cannons/ Anti-tank the Plasma Cannon can be alot of fun on this guy.  Regardless, like others have said, you really need to abuse the fact that they can stand in terrain and get a save to make their AV12 stand up long enough for them to be worth it. 

 

I also must agree that if you are not a GK, you might as well use a Quad gun instead of a Rifleman Dread in terms of the points investment. 

[Baba Lem]

Don't units with Skyfire hit ground units with snap shots only? If that's the case the Dread is far more multi-purpose.

 

Weapons with Skyfire and Interceptor rules fire at everything with their full BS, flyer or ground.

[teblin]

 

Don't units with Skyfire hit ground units with snap shots only? If that's the case the Dread is far more multi-purpose.

 

Weapons with Skyfire and Interceptor rules fire at everything with their full BS, flyer or ground.

 

oo. I see.

[Memento Of Prospero]

And Interceptor is another huge advantage the dreadnought doesn't have.

[knife&fork]

And Interceptor is another huge advantage the dreadnought doesn't have.

Apples and Oranges

Why do you insist on makeing these two confiliction options? They are in no way mutually exclusive.

Besides the quadgun still requires a unit to shoot it, so it's still going to end up costing more than just the dread.

[Memento Of Prospero]

And Interceptor is another huge advantage the dreadnought doesn't have.

Apples and Oranges

Why do you insist on makeing these two confiliction options? They are in no way mutually exclusive.

Besides the quadgun still requires a unit to shoot it, so it's still going to end up costing more than just the dread.

Right.... It's more to the tune of apples and apple pies. Why would you ever take a apple when you can have the good stuff? Give me some areas where the Dreadnought will outclass the quad that are worth losing all of the Quadgun's utility for. There are none. They both shoot the same guns. They both are have roughly equivalent durability. They both fill the same purpose in a list. (Shoot light armoured vehicules or monstrous creatures, or high toughness priority targets) with the quad being able to give you tons more utility for less. it's as simple as that.

It's not like you don't hold objectives in your deployment zone. Needing someone to man the gun is a moot arguement. You will include something that can do the job unless you purposefully design to not be able to use it. If you were to build such a list, a rifleman dreadnought would be just as inadequate for it.

I am not saying you can't have both. But why shoot yourself in the foot by using a model that offers less for a greater cost ?

Because otherwise, why aren't we using whirlwinds alongside our Fragdreads? Because the Fragdreads just do it better in every single way.

[knife&fork]

 1 Give me some areas where the Dreadnought will outclass the quad

 

2 It's not like you don't hold objectives in your deployment zone. 

 

3 Because otherwise, why aren't we using whirlwinds alongside our Fragdreads? Because the Fragdreads just do it better in every single way.

 

 

1. They play very differently:

The quadgun is stationary, the dread isn't.

The quadgun is placed before deployment (even before terrain if you are using the full rules) while the dread is placed normally and has transport options.

The quadgun can be used against you by any enemy model, the dread will only do that in very rare cases. (love to do this myself and I've seen DE do it against vanilla marines)

The quadgun has wounds and a save while the dread has AV (situational)

The quadgun cannot fight in CC, the dread can.  

 

2. I rarely do, rather spend those points and units in an agressive manner. When I do it's usually in 'big guns' and then it's my HS units doing last turn objective grabs. The defenseline and the static firebase to go along with it is not a no-brainer, it's not needed in all lists.

 

3. Funny you should mention that because whirlwinds have excellent syngery with frag cannon dreads. They don't replace each other but work well together, similar to how a static firebase could benefit from something like the rifleman dread. If the quadgun is good, why not bring something similar so you can access that kind of firepower in your own turn after making an interceptor shot? 

[appiah4]

I'm quite fond of the HS Dreadnought myself, I run 2-3 of them with my footslogging Tactical heavy lists, usually with Multi-Melta/CCW or TLLC/ML configurations.

 

I find the MM/CCW in particular is an excellent value proposition, especially if your army is based around 24" threat bubbles (read, tactical squads) like mine.

[Emperors Immortals]

I agree with appiah5, the basic MM CCW is a bargain. Knife and Fork has also written a great pie ce on what you shoul dbe aiming for with adread IMO.

 

I usually field mine as either TLLC/ML or as a podding AssCan/ HF, which is also a great disruptor.

 

I run all my armies with th eBA codex and include at least one dread always. Just add a predator or couple of rhinos for screens and your set.

[Office temp]

Seeing as how I play against DE a lot I'd say dred is better, it won't go down to a flurry of poisoned shots.