Grey Mage Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 So at what point values do you find games of 30k to be reasonably balanced and fun? Are they larger than your normal 40k games? Smaller? Is this specifically to include or exclude Lords of Battle from the whole thing? On a side note, have you had any battles vs 30k Xenos races? Did the balance seem alright to you? How did you handle alien Lords of Battle? Did it seem like they might need changes to squad sizes? Was fearless or any other psychology rule 'off' compared to its effectiveness in 40k? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 They are definitely more balanced, although there is the more experienced players who have learned to use some combos. If the regular games is the standard size - 2000 points, for 30k, if not to take into account the scenarios from campaign, it is 2500 pts. No it is not necessary to include Lords of battle, this should be agreed with the opponent. Yes, I have played many times with the xenos, the balance is still the place to be, but we play only with justified by background opponents: eldar, dark eldar, necrons, imperial guard, orks. NO house rules to change the size of the units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Well the Legion list does work better the bigger the game so 2500 to 3000 pots would be my recommendation. as far as fighting xenos just let them use you Age of Darkness FOC. Between that and the greater points they have to work with that will take care of 95% of your balance problems right there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call Me Abaddon Maybe Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I haven't had any complaints using the 30k list or Primarchs in 40k. Its's actually pretty balanced. If you can kill a greater daemon, you can put down a Primarch. It only takes a bad round of rolling and they're gone. My Angron has met his end via the Black Mace, and Calgar got lucky and punched him to death. I haven't had the chance to run Horus much yet. Yes there are some broken combos in there, but nothing game breaking. One big mark against them is that they don't have ATSKNF. There are a few ways to get rerolls and fearless, but I've had squads get sweeping advance'd! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I agree, but primarchs can not be compared with the demon princes, kill the demon = take candy from a baby, and kill the Primarch is a real quest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I agree, but primarchs can not be compared with the demon princes, kill the demon = take candy from a baby, and kill the Primarch is a real quest. The candy from a baby made me laugh. I actually find it balanced - just no Super Heavies, and no broken stuff - e.g Moritats. At least, before the FAQ.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I do not think they are too strong, in fact, after 30+ games, I've learned to quickly neutralize the enemy's Moritat. While we have taken to prevent the rule, if someone takes the Lords of war and negotiate their participation in advance. I've won a few games without it playing against armies with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Probably ideal lists run between 2000 to 2500 points which allow you to get a few toys in but maybe not to the full extent you would want. If i had the funds and similar competition, I would run 3000 to 4000 points as that veritably lets you use everything you want without a certain FOC slot being leaned against heavily. I think that most forces that play with lords of war are generally going to pick their primarch and less tanks till we see more in the next few books (I myself would take a Typhon, but holy hell that Glaive tank looks beautiful!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3391620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Ok, hoping for more posts and also a followup question: do you use exclusively 30k models, or do you 'cheat' and throw in modern kits? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3395034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SillyDreadnought Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I've found 2500 to be 30k's version of 40k's 1500. You get a good selection of things, an absolutely shocking number of models on the table and your units ( usually ) have the durability to last the game. As for using modern kits, why call it cheating? Mk.iic rhino hulls are all apparently ancient relic designs anyway. I freely mix mk.iic's and deimos pattern hulls in my models. Same with mk.6 and 7 armour ( theming around the Siege of terra basically lets you use current plastic kits with FW stuff with reckless abandon ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3397130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I'll add in that 2500 seems to be a good size for 30K battles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3397290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisdudeness Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I will second the above two. The minimum has to be 2000, anything less and you end up losing a lot of what make s 30k list different then a 40k list. A majority of the 30k list I've see are 40k lists with a sprinkle of 30k unique units added because the builder like the models. My view is if you paid $100 for the big rule book, go big on the units. Maxed 20 man squads all the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276685-point-values-in-30k/#findComment-3398169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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