Rift Blade Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 You can run into small board presence from your opponent if the units in reserve are big in points. The last tournament I played a Chaos player had only a Forge Fiend, 2 squads of Chaos Marines(16 models total) & an Aegis Defence line to start with because he had a a Heldrake, 9 Terminators, a Terminator Lord & Terminator Sorceror in Reserve/Deep Striking. I had first turn & by top of 2 he was tabled except for his Reserves/Deep Strikers. He had deployed forwards & I got insanely lucky with boxcars for a 1st turn charge with a pack of THunder Wolves with a Battle Ldr. It is possible to table your opponent by turn 2 if they are to eager. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Against melee armies though you are pretty much paying for a slight disadvantage as you don't want to deploy near the melee army, and are out of cover to boot. Unlike a normal dedicated transport you have to deploy in it i think. Plus with new terrain placement rules you can just hide your rhinos if going second. You do not have to deploy in them. Against melee armies, just deploy on the table in cover, and use your Drop Pods to delay your enemy by blocking avenues of approach, or even temporarily trapping enemy units until they destroy the pods. A great way to buy extra turns of shooting, and desynchronizing an enemy attack. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Michael Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Just won a game in a tournament last weekend facing Grey Knights, when I had a empty Rhino run forward in the last turn and contest an objective giving me the win. Over all won 2 lost 1, Tau had it together in one battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwolfalpha Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 If it has to arrive via deepstrike (as a drop pod does) then it doesn't count toward the 50% rule. Its 50% of your army that can be deployed first turn must be deployed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 See page 124 of the brb under preparing reserves. It clarifies that if a unit must start in reserve it does not count towards half for the purposes of which units may be held in reserve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 If it has to arrive via deepstrike (as a drop pod does) then it doesn't count toward the 50% rule. Its 50% of your army that can be deployed first turn must be deployed. Yeah... What are you guys responding to? I must have missed something. Just remember though, ICs always count separately to any unit they are attached to, while squads do not count separately from their dedicated transports. So if you have more than one HQ, youll need to have some support pieces on the field turn one. Hardly a sacrifice if you plan for it- I suggest landspeeders but its your army- but something to keep in mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 well thanks for all the input here. WHen i got my army i got 4 drop pods and 4 razor backs ( to be used as rhinos as well ) so i will play around with both options. However the argument for either is very close. I think i will start with the drop pods. This tactic will depends on the mission and the way the enemy has deployed. However i would like to drop my first 2 pods close to each other and on one side. 1) this will create some cover where i need it 2) A lot of focus fire from one side of the table. Also i want to drop to the side so my rune priest can get a good line for the jaw spell. All of this allowing my CC units to walk up and take minimal dmg. Whilst receiving cover fire from LF. My first game will be tomorrow! so lets see how it goes! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roma Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 <p>DP dont count for 50%, is that a fact? Dont see why since Grey Mage seems to think otherwise (or maybe he is just very confused).</p> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 GM isn't confused at all. Any unit that can take a pod as a dedicated transport does not count towards your reserve allowance but if you were to put an IC in any of those pods you then need an equivalent amount of units on the field. Ie 1 IC at least 1 unit on the field, 2 ICs 2 units etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Disregard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Sorry guys, but you're wrong. An IC embarked on a Drop Pod does not count against your Reserve Limit. Read the BRB, then read the BRB FAQ, and if you still have doubts go read any of the 3+ threads in the +OR+ on the topic. I'm not going to go into an indepth proof here, that's what the +OR+ is for (or was before it became off-limits to rules debates). http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274092-reserves-order-of-operations http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274742-non-dedicated-transports-transported-units-in-reserve http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275050-reserves-questions http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275339-deathwing-deepstrike-rules Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Hes talking about: Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124) A: No., BRB FAQ v1.4 Wich can reasonably be interpreted as allowing ICs to ignore their numbers when in a DP, though some may not agree with this, so be prepared to talk it over if it comes up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3392999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So it seems to follow from that quote that the following is true (I've basically just rephrased as a proposition rather than question and negated it) "Units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve do not count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves. For example, you do not count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units you can place in Reserves." That does actually seem pretty clear cut, though it's certainly possible GW meant something else by it. Clarifications tend to be unclear like that ;) Anyway, that's interesting. So that rule covers, say, a storm eagle, too? I didn't realize that. What does a WG pack, wolf lord in a storm eagle count as? 0? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastHuzzah Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 That works for me, I haven't had much reason to dig into the BRB faqs. I can recall at least 2 instances that it would've been incredibly helpful to have that text (though I'm not sure when it was added). Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 So it seems to follow from that quote that the following is true (I've basically just rephrased as a proposition rather than question and negated it) "Units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve do not count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves. For example, you do not count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units you can place in Reserves." That does actually seem pretty clear cut, though it's certainly possible GW meant something else by it. Clarifications tend to be unclear like that Anyway, that's interesting. So that rule covers, say, a storm eagle, too? I didn't realize that. What does a WG pack, wolf lord in a storm eagle count as? 0? So for example. If i had 4 units in drop pods all 4 units could be dropped in first turn? since these units MUST be put in reserves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So it seems to follow from that quote that the following is true (I've basically just rephrased as a proposition rather than question and negated it) "Units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve do not count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves. For example, you do not count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units you can place in Reserves." That does actually seem pretty clear cut, though it's certainly possible GW meant something else by it. Clarifications tend to be unclear like that Anyway, that's interesting. So that rule covers, say, a storm eagle, too? I didn't realize that. What does a WG pack, wolf lord in a storm eagle count as? 0? So for example. If i had 4 units in drop pods all 4 units could be dropped in first turn? since these units MUST be put in reserves No, you're still limited to 1/2 your Drop Pods turn 1 with the remainder rolled for starting on turn 2. But if all of your units and ICs are embarked in Drop Pods and Flyers, then you can start the game with all units in Reserve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So for example. If i had 4 units in drop pods all 4 units could be dropped in first turn? since these units MUST be put in reserves Drop pod assault (c:sw, pg. 47) says that you can only send half your drop pods rounded up on turn one. Then the rest roll reserves as normal. But the point everyone is driving at is that the models in the drop pods do not count towards the 50% of the models in your army for the purpose of determining who can be placed in reserve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 ahh i see :) THank you for clearing that up[ :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3393466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 @jbickb--Sorry but no. 2 of your 4 Drop Pods come in turn 1 & then on turn 2 you start rolling for the other 2 to see when you get one or both of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3394317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Sorry guys, but you're wrong. An IC embarked on a Drop Pod does not count against your Reserve Limit. Read the BRB, then read the BRB FAQ, and if you still have doubts go read any of the 3+ threads in the +OR+ on the topic. I'm not going to go into an indepth proof here, that's what the +OR+ is for (or was before it became off-limits to rules debates). http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274092-reserves-order-of-operations http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/274742-non-dedicated-transports-transported-units-in-reserve http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275050-reserves-questions http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/275339-deathwing-deepstrike-rules Ah, thanks for the clarification. That works out much better, and actually allows a true/full Dop Pod Assault army. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/276694-drop-pod-or-rhino/page/2/#findComment-3394328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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