dizzy-xc Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Once I upgrade the twin-linked Shuriken Catapults to a Shuriken Cannon, the rules then allow for any Vyper to exchange its Shuriken Cannon to another better weapon. Would I not then, following the appropriate points costs and upgrade path be able to end up with any two weapons I so choose per Vyper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 You could make that case for doubling up the heavy weapon because of the way the unit entry is written (as you've explained above). However I suspect that the upgrades aren't intended to be exploited this way. 1 - the order of weapons upgrades list the heavy weapons first meaning you make those upgrades before you take the 2nd cannon. 2 - it says "its shuriken cannon" not "any shuriken cannon" suggesting that it's the cannon it starts with can be upgraded not the one you've taken as a subsequent upgrade. 3 - any upgrade that requires you to explain the (multiple) steps you had to make in order to get it suggests exploitation of GWs seeming inability to write clear and concise rules. 4 - the model doesn't come with any of those weapons on that front mount. So you could do it, however you would run the risk of ending up with an illegal model the moment GW is made aware of their poor wording (and adds the line "this shuriken cannon cannot be further replaced by another weapon" in a future errata). It will also cause you to develop a reputation as a cheesy scumbag in the mean time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 If you want to be that strict in our reading of possibilities, then lets really be strict ;)"A vyper may upgrade its shurican cannon...." Not 'cannons' cannon. So it can upgrade one of them. Even if you upgrade to a second one, you only get to choose one to upgrade. So, if you like you could have a hull mounted starcannon and a turret mounted shurican cannon... sure. I dont know why you would, but go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 That wouldn't be correct grammer GM. If it said "may upgrade it's cannons to..." then you would need to upgrade two (or more) cannons to get a single other upgrade. You can upgrade a single cannon to a single other weapon. But you can do this multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Actually Im pretty sure the proper form would be "may upgrade any of its shurican cannons" :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizzy-xc Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 'can exchange its shuriken cannon for one of the following'... is what it says I'm pretty sure. Entertaining posts however. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 For what it's worth, in previous editions wasn't it the top weapon that got upgraded from a Cannon to a whatever and the bottom Catapults could only ever get upgraded to a Cannon? Only I don't see why it would be different this time around... Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Doesn't this just go back to the same order of operations argument that arises every few months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiisil Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Sadly when making a list the end product has no Order of Operations that exist nor are they even provable to exist. The Codices also do not provide a clear Order of Operations. However the exact wording of the rule I believe is pretty clear in that there is no plural when it talks about upgrading the Shuriken Cannon therefore it only makes sense that only a single Shuriken Cannon may be upgraded. It's like the argument about giving an Apothecary (SM Command Squad) or Sanguinary Noviate (BA Honorguard) a power weapon because they were once the model classified as Veteran. In the end product their model is Apothecary/Sanguinary Noviate and not Veteran therefore if you were looking at your opponents list and saw this (assuming you know the SM/BA codex well enough) you would question that and if in a tournament I would expect demand that they do not use the rules for the power weapon as it is an illegal selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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