Termicide squads seem a little too good for the points

[Karsarn Forsworn]

Hey guys so yesterday I tried out a 3 man termi cide squad for the first time and I must admit it was awesome the killed a GKs Dreadnought and then took down a a combat squad of a strike squad. However it felt like for the points the unit did a little too much to the point my opponent complained about it. Does anyone else agree that a 3 man unit of termies is too goodor was my opponent just being a whiny git lol

[Xenith]

Opponent is just a whiny git. It's very rich for a grey knight player, of all players, to complain about broken-ness.

 

How much does he pay for a model with a storm bolter and power weapon?

 

A unit of 3 terms in his deployment zone is a threat, but also easily dealt with. He made a massive mistake in not killing them right away.

[Karsarn Forsworn]

He also complained when the 2 men left from the 5 man chaos marine squad which was in the rhino with my lord got away with the relic and claimed that the burning brand is too good just because everytime my lord got the chance to actually flame something he did. Tbh in a way I dread to use a Helldrake against him :L it may just stop him from playing :L

[Blackironindustries]

Burning Brand is good but you still have to get close to your opponent. In my opinion your opponent can be summed up as follows:

Grey Knights, your doing it wrong.

 

Black Iron Ind.

[Karsarn Forsworn]

Burning Brand is good but you still have to get close to your opponent. In my opinion your opponent can be summed up as follows:

Grey Knights, your doing it wrong.

 

Black Iron Ind.

Agreed he had a strike squad next to his tl lasdcannon dread cast warp quake so I just brought my termies and raptors down the other side of the board. Funnily enough I played him before when I was trying out thousand sons and he used a death guard army. He got annoyed at my ap3 bolters

[Prot]

I don't know if you've read any of my advice, but I live off of those squads. There's not a heck of a lot that the competitive player base would tell you is 'abusive' in the Chaos codex, and Termicide doesn't fit that criteria.

 

It's a solid squad, but has to be used properly and there are situations that they just fail in. I'm guessing your opponent hasn't faced this before. Next time he'll know what they're capable of and he will react better.  They're good but hardly a -must have- unit.

[Xenith]

I played him before when I was trying out thousand sons and he used a death guard army. He got annoyed at my ap3 bolters

 

Then your opponent simply isn't mentally mature enough to accept that the problem lies with how his army is built and used in game. Th solution to AP3 bolters is to put your dudes in cover. Even better, assault the Thousand Sons.

 

Next time he mentions anything, point at his scoring troop terminators, hammerhand, power weapons etc.

[Iron_Within]

What would guys consider an ideal load-out for a termycide unit?

[HJL]

3 combi meltas and power axes. 

[Dam13n]

Iron Within:

 

3 Combi-meltas and Power Axes/Mauls

3 Combi-plasma and Power Axes

3 Combi-flamer and Power Mauls

 

It all depends what you're trying to kill, which will be based on your local meta.

 

Loads of Vehicles - meltas

Loads of MEQ/TEQ - plasmas

Loads of Hordes - flamers

 

That GK player sounds like a prat, he obviously has never come up against a comp SW army

- 5 Wolf Guard in Power Armour with Combi-weapons in a Drop Pod - 150pts

Add a Wolf Priest for the preferred enemy (vehicle for melta, infantry for plasma) and it goes from just a suicide squad to a proper alpha strike unit.

Especially in a Logan list (where you could easily have 4 of them - 1 for each character!)

I suspect he would probably cry if that hit his army.

[Tenebris]

Combiplasma and Power Axes for me. Good against most targets, specialist in killing enemy terminators. Trust me you will love this setup when you are against the GK and all those armies who spam terminators be it in deep strike or via Land Raiders, a common thing in my local meta. 

[zyl-]

I always use plasma and axe. At the very least, your champ must have an axe for the challenges. Leave the tank hunting to units better equipped for it imo. The melta gun termicide NEEDS to drop in precicely to hit melta range, which is anything but assured in our situation. My usual routine is to dump the termies in a spot that forces saves on heavy weapons or characters that I want dead.. which is usually fairly possible. A common combo for me is to drop in and zap an apothecary out before charging, or in the event of a true suicide move, pulling plasma cannons out of a squad.

[Karsarn Forsworn]

I run mine 3 combi meltas 2 chain fists VoTLW and Power Maul on champ as I find the +2 strength strike at I and concussive to be worth it over the +1 strength ap2 as in my eyes id rather have more attacks at a higher strength than a few attacks at ap2

[Xenith]

I run mine 3 combi meltas 2 chain fists VoTLW and Power Maul on champ as I find the +2 strength strike at I and concussive to be worth it over the +1 strength ap2 as in my eyes id rather have more attacks at a higher strength than a few attacks at ap2

 

You get exactly the same amount of attacks with a power axe as you do with a maul. 2 basic and 3 on the charge.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I wouldn't bother with special CCWs, brother.  The "cide" part at the end of "termicide" doesn't mean "Terminators kill," it means "Terminators die."  Three bodies, even with 2+ saves, aren't going to last especially when they're dropping in danger-close to the enemy.  Let them have their basic power weapons, abuse the combi-weapon options, and never forget that they are a fire-and-forget weapon system.

[Tenebris]

I agree with Deus Ex Ferrum here. We can take a very small squad of terminators for a reason, they drop in, they fire their weapons and than they die. All in all a basic squad rarely amounts more than 150 points which for a 2+/5++, combiweapon and power weapon equipped model, is a bargain like no other in our codex. Don't waste points on marks, special weapons, veterans, there is no need for that since those three terminators have only two jobs to do. First is to deliver the Lord or the Sorcerer if they have TDA, second to use the combiweapon of choice on the predetermined target. 

 

In a Doubles tournament my terminators did just that. They delivered my Lord on board, used a turn of combiplasma to kill a Techmarine and his Thunderfire Cannon (the game was Big Guns Never Tire) and than they acted as extra wounds for my lord until the game was over. I feed the cheap Aspiring Champion to a Grey Knight Justiciar while the two remaining Terminators and the Lord worked wonders with their Power Axes and Claw on the enemy squad. 

For a basic 124 points worthy of squad (I have a Chainfist in there just in case) the squad delivered what they were meant to do in the first place. They secured me a Kill Point deleting a Heavy Support Unit, they tied a GK Terminator squad for two turns and allowed my Lord to survive just enough long to make out two turns of Brand fire. 

 

So despite how awesome big and kitted out squads of Terminators look I advocate ever more the MSU configuration with a basic combiweapon (Melta if armor heavy, Plasma if terminator heavy) and a power axe as the weapons of choice. You can get such a squad for 112 points...epic to say the least. 

 

Know also that the cheap terminators allow us to play aggressive with them and they work in concert with Bikers to provide our army with a strong hammer for our Troops anvil. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Speaking of Termicide...

Maybe a bit silly, but here's my idea (for NL when I came back from the warp and have time for the hobby):

Terminator Lord, MoK AoBF, VoTLW, Gift - 165

Sorcerer LvL 3, VoTLW, Sigil - 140


Terminator x3, CF, c-melta, VoTLW - 131

Terminator x3, CF, c-melta, VoTLW - 131

Terminator x3, CF, c-melta, VoTLW - 131


CSM x9, CCW, VoTLW, Meltagun, c-melta, MoS, IoE, PW, Rhino w/ dirge - 275

CSM x10, CCW, VoTLW, Meltagun, flamer, PW, Rhino w/dirge - 243

CSM x10, CCW, VoTLW, Meltagun, flamer, PW, Rhino w/dirge - 243


Raptors x7, VoTLW, Meltagun x2, MoS, LC - 192

Bikers x5, VoTLW, Plasmagun x2, MoS, PW - 170

Baledrake - 170

1991 if I did well.

I'm used to field 4+ rhinos and sometimes a tri-las predator in top of that, so I feel naked with only 3 of them, or to say, the list seems weak to me, but I like the idea of 10 terminators deepstriking in the enemy's rearguard. I can strip MoS and IoE of the sorc-carrying CSM squad claw to get more points for something.

Any ideas on how to improve?

Side note: Being a NL army MoS is not really MoS: is an Improved VoTLW which costs 3 points and boosts their Init (10k years fighting and all that), the IoE is my apothekarion and, the Termies have his armor a bit rusted (hence the I4) and the reason the Lord is so angry. The resto of the VoTLW claws are not so veterans (only 4999 years of fighting the Imperium).

[polf1973]

Personally I think your a little light on the scoring units, you need at least one more, plus 275 points for 9 man CSM squad is a lot points, drop a few of the trinkets from that squad, losing one of the HQ's will free up enough points for another CSM squad, I wouldnt give them a rhino and use them to hold the objective in your zone, any thing left over add a few more raptors

[Brother Aiwass]

Thanks Polf, how about instead droping the raptors and making all the CSM units at ~243 (the one with the sorc would be a bit less).

 

Ok, I should open a thread about that in the propper secction.

[Deus de Mortalis]

I like termicide. It gets things done.

 

But I have been thinking about their loadout, plasmaguns vs meltaguns.

 

Plasmaguns are better against almost anything with wounds since you get twice the shots. The only time melta is better here is against T4 models with 3 or more wounds.

 

Then against vehicles. Plasma gets 2 shots at 12 inches, while melta gets one. Versus AV10 and AV11, which is most side and rear armor, the two shots make plasma better than a single melta shot. And don't forget that to roll the extra AP die with melta, it needs to be within 6 inches, which is riskier and harder to do while deep striking than the maximum of 12 inches required to get off two plasma shots.

 

I have always run my guys with combi-meltas, but I think I will start changing it all to combi-plasma. As long as you have other units in your list that can hurt av13 and av14, I think a plasma termicide squad would be a lot more useful.

[Tenebris]

That is why I favor Combiplasma for my terminators and I always include a Chainfist and a Melta Bomb. If you are close to an enemy vehicle to actually use the Melta than you are close enough to charge it and use your melee weapons to destroy it, and it has a higher degree of success than three melta shots. 

[Brother Aiwass]

While I agree in the concept, that's assuming that you're surviving a whole turn of retaliation fire/charges.

[Trevak Dal]

 

I played him before when I was trying out thousand sons and he used a death guard army. He got annoyed at my ap3 bolters

 

Then your opponent simply isn't mentally mature enough to accept that the problem lies with how his army is built and used in game. Th solution to AP3 bolters is to put your dudes in cover. Even better, assault the Thousand Sons.

 

Next time he mentions anything, point at his scoring troop terminators, hammerhand, power weapons etc.

 

FORCE weapons sir.  And SPECIAL force weapons that don't abide by the rulebook's definitions of force weapons, have all the benefits and no detriments.  Oh excuse me-they're all AP3 excepting the hammer which is ap2.  And Terminators have a magic flag which allows them to auto pass their Force Weapon attack.

 

My sorcerer would LOVE to have a GK style Force Sword, where he get's a 4++ invulnerable save in close combat (I think if you have a power/force sword, power/force maul/stave you should get a 6++ 'parry' invulnerable save if you don't have a native invulnerable save, but I digress)

 

Let alone having access to a GK style force halberd. Initiative 6 force weapon with a Biomancy Kaio-Ken on top?  That's the business right there.

[Deus de Mortalis]

While I agree in the concept, that's assuming that you're surviving a whole turn of retaliation fire/charges.

 

And that the vehicle doesn't simply move away from the terminators.

[Jiron]

Iron Within:

 

3 Combi-meltas and Power Axes/Mauls

3 Combi-plasma and Power Axes

3 Combi-flamer and Power Mauls

 

I take them usually agains my freind playing lots of vehicles and I add chanfists as well. More expensive but you can still charge a Land Raider and win.