tips on starting a grey knights list...

[tomsev]

so basically i would like some tips on making a grey knights only no inquisitors friendlies only list... what should i get and why i currently have 5 strikes 4 paladins and a grand master... thanks for the help...

[thade]

Welcome to the hobby.

If it's for friendly-only games and you're just starting out, I recommend getting whatever looks really cool to assemble and paint; the more you like the model, the more likely you are to take care in and enjoy painting it, and the more likely you are to stick with the hobby going forward.

If painting isn't your thing, getting the models you like the best is still going to serve you in the same way. Whether you fancy them for their look, their playstyle, their rules, or their fluff, the ones you like the most are the ones you're most likely to stick with and enjoy in the long run.

General advice: More strikes can hardly go amiss; more terminators can hardly go amiss. Dreadknights can be fun. The Brotherhood Champion is really good for his points. We have one of the best and most versatile psykers in the game with our Librarian.

[Bowlzee]

Your going to need at least 1 more troop choice to start playing with a legitimate army. I would personally recommend buying another terminator box set and a 5 man strike squad box set. That covers your FOC. Everything after that all depends on what you like, and what your play style is.

 

You can't go wrong with a DreadKnight with Great Sword and incinerator..., deep strike it and watch your enemy scramble everything to try and deal with it! So much fun to play :) 

[tomsev]

so a strike box, a termie box, a dreadknight... and what about a storm raven?

[Bowlzee]

Storm Raven is quite a lot of money to sink in without thinking about your army as a whole. I would seriously recommend sitting down and making a couple of Army Lists. I struggle to find room for a Storm Raven. Even at high points list I always want to take 2 DreadKnights and 1 PsyfleDread ( or 1 DreadKnight and 2 PsyfleDreads).

 

Really wish Dreadnoughts were Elite like Space Marines! There is a lot of competition for those 3 Heavy Slots!

 

I would also recommend play testing your lists on VASSAL with some friends. 40K is expensive and you want to make sure you only buy what your going to use :)

[tomsev]

whats vassel? oh i model for fun as well so i dont really mind if i dont play with the model... i currently have 3 armies (space marines, dark angels and now the new grey knights... and bit and bobs from other races.... i just have them cause i like them...

[Aethernitas]

I love the Stormraven. Despite my friends who seem to follow the boring statutes of "sleek is cool" I always keep the army aesthetic in mind and as a smaller Thunderhawk the Stormraven is very cool and I like the model a lot. If you like the model and you can afford the Stormraven go get it. I think it's one of the most versatile units in our whole codex with the only downside that it's often the primary (and manyy times only) target of the enemy AA guns but don't let that get in your way of fielding it and laughing in your opponents faces when all their AA firepower bounces off of your flying tank and enjoy their desperation when you unleash it's firepower and charge up to four units when disembarking from the Raven xD

[tomsev]

if i do get a raven what set up should i use? i was thinking of assault cannons, multi melta, hurricane bolters and psy bolts... but that 255pts or a land raider... and speaking of which what about a land raider or dont they work here?

 

 

edit      just a question on the dreadknight what if i put a heavy incinerator and a heavy psycannon and a great sword?

[Bowlzee]

if i do get a raven what set up should i use? i was thinking of assault cannons, multi melta, hurricane bolters and psy bolts... but that 255pts or a land raider... and speaking of which what about a land raider or dont they work here?

 

The load outs you are quoting are great, and work really well. The only issue I have is that it starts getting very expensive. And you'll cry hard when it gets downed the first turn it shows up ;) I think i typically see Assualt Cannons and Multi Melta load outs (with searchlight). I don't see too many hurricane bolters around. But if you can fit them in go for it!

 

As always, magnetize everything you can :)

 

 

edit      just a question on the dreadknight what if i put a heavy incinerator and a heavy psycannon and a great sword?

 

Yes, you can do this, but it suffers again from being a big points sink 225 points for Greatsword with psycannon and incinerator. 300 if you want to add a personal teleporter on it. 185 pts i think is the sweet spot for an NDK (Great Sword and Incinerator).

 

Throw a couple of magnets on it and test it out. You could also go 2 NDK's. One with Psycannon and Incinerator and one with great sword and incinerator... :)

[thade]

The trouble you'll run into with the DK there (any "death star" unit really) is just this: you need to keep in mind the balance between how expensive the unit is and how durable the unit is. Very often it is the case that pouring points into a unit to increase its killing potential (a process that very often has diminishing returns) will do nothing to increase its durability. Adding 100-something points to the NDK to add another heavy ranged weapon, a teleporter, etc., means he still takes the same amount of effort on your opponent's part to bring down, but it costs you 100 more points when the NDK gets blown up. 100 more points that could have been several more GK Terminators, or power-armored knights, etc.

You want to present your opponent not only with powerful adversaries, but with multiple targets. If you put a 300+ point NDK on the table, or a Storm Raven with a massively expensive Paladin unit in it, you are giving your opponent a very obvious target to prioritize. It can be very helpful to make this a tough choice for your opponent: presenting him or her with many good units instead of few great ones will cause them pause on what to shoot and when. That's something that you can learn to take advantage of as you learn to play your new army.

One mistake I often see newcomers make is to not only put every model they have on the table, but to massively inflate the points they put into each unit. This rarely results in a cohesive army that can stand up to another at its point value (unless it's massively inflated too). Put down what you have in an honest and calculated way, so your opponents can match you with an appropriate point-valued army. (Otherwise you'll get crushed constantly and possibly be unsure as to why.) This is especially true with GK as each of our models is already expensive; we can expect to be outnumbered 2-to-1 by even marines (who are often outnumberd 2-to-1 by non-marine armies). Just some food for thought.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'd still look at an OM Inquisitor in TDA.  Just paint him as a GK, and call him a GK. ;)

[tomsev]

I'd still look at an OM Inquisitor in TDA. Just paint him as a GK, and call him a GK.

how do i model one of them?

[Aethernitas]

I used the SM Scriptor in TDA model. It's very easy to change the weapons and the big emblem on his back actually already looks halfway GK'ish. Just add a sword to his book emblems, mount a stormbolter on his left wrist and modify the stave to you liking.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

how do i model one of them?

 

I doubt anyone would have a problem with a GKT mini armed with a NDH and a Psycannon (if that's the loadout you chose).

 

I usually always model my Marines with Helmets, you could have him with an open face to distinguish, if needed.

[tomsev]

i prefer all helmets on... i normally just "bling up" my characters with bit morre gold and or purity seals etc... i for an inquisitor could i use normal space marine tda? and just arm him GK style?

I used the SM Scriptor in TDA model. It's very easy to change the weapons and the big emblem on his back actually already looks halfway GK'ish. Just add a sword to his book emblems, mount a stormbolter on his left wrist and modify the stave to you liking.

scriptor in tda??? whats that?

[Aethernitas]

The Scriptor in "tactical dreadnought armour" aka Terminator armour: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440271a&prodId=prod1160028a

[Sigvard]

I have found its always good to give your inquisitor a little history so mine is currently from Fenris and her NDH is one take from Wolf Guard. Makes her stand out in a crowd. Also put a couple of charms from her planet. Inquisitors give you loads of scope for customisation and really enjoyable modelling experience

[Gentlemanloser]

Why would a Wolf Guard have had a Nemesis Weapon?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

If you wanna go pure Knights, it can be risky in 6th but doable. You basically have two paths; balanced list or Draigowing. Purifier lists kinda died when CSM and Tau got revamped. 

 

For a balanced list, I'd highly recommend a Grandmaster for your HQ. He's great in challenges with a nemesis hammer, he makes other things scoring, and he brings 'Communion' for any Reserves you might have (for example Raven-carried units). Librarians are also a good choice, as both the Knight powers or Divination offer up strong buffs/counters (although you can't mix them, you must choose one or the other). Just go with a single HQ, all of the Knight heroes are expensive. 

 

For Elites, it is basically a choice between Paladins or Purifiers. Grandmasters like to be up front hitting things to death (his 'Strategy' buff applies even if he's dead, and 'Communion' stops being relevant after like Turn 2/3), and you can use them as a meatshield for important units (due to the new wound allocation rules), so Paladins go well with him. Librarians are less aggressive and like buffing multiple units, so Purifiers work a bit better with them (more shots to buff with 'Prescience', Paladins usually pack hammers so 'Might' is better on Purifier halberds). Paladins are Heldrake-immune, but Riptides annhilate Paladins, so matchups may dictate which is better. 

Don't touch Venerable Dreads or Tech-Marines, the latter do far more for Henchmen than they do for Knights (and with only 1 wound they're kinda easy to snipe). 

 

Troops will be either Strikes or Terminators. Terminators are very durable to both melee and shooting in 6th, and with cover saves nerfed their 5+ invul is a little more relevant (still unreliable though). Strikes bring more bodies and more shots, however they will die to Heldrakes and massed fire more easily than Terminators ever will. I like my Terminator blob, but it can be a bit unwieldly at times. Again, think carefully about matchups. Rhinos can be a good choice, and Razorbacks are still relatively cheap enough if you want fire support. Tau, IG and CSM will rip apart AV11 however, so again matchups will make a big difference. 

 

Fast Attack you should probably avoid below 2k. Even with a Grandmaster handing out scoring, Interceptors are one of the weakest infantry choices for pure Knights. Purifiers, Paladins and Strikes edge them out on cost effectiveness. At 2k, small Interceptor units can be a great asset though for harassment of the enemy backlines. I prefer Dreadknights in the same role, but YMMV. 

Ravens are a build-dependent choice. If you need to get a unit to the enemy's face ASAP, its great. Otherwise you are better off getting more dudes. They're by no means bad, they're one of the most durable and lethal Flyers in the game (Vendettas edge them out for no.1), but they're an expensive non-scoring investment in an already tiny army. 

 

Heavy Support is a personal choice. My personal experience has been that PsyDreads are weaker in 6th. DK's on the other hand are even more annoying (2+ armour in melee is a pain to deal with now, especially on an MC that hits at I4), especially now they can challenge out squad leaders and heroes and reliably kill them. The basic math is one DK for two PsyDreads (DK with sword+teleporter+heavy incinerator ~= 2 x standard PsyDreads). If you already have decent amounts of armour on the board (for example with Rhinos/Razors), PsyDreads are less vulnerable. For a more infantry-heavy list, DK's are great (as typically the kinda guns people use on Paladins have to be used on DK's as well). 

 

 

vs

 

 

Draigowing is in my opinion a real gamble in 6th. If you come up against Riptides, Ecto-Fiends, Vendetta+Demo-Charge Vets, Demolishers, Deathwing Knights, massed AP2 etc...well you are kinda up the proverbial. However, with Draigo out front tanking damage, against lists that can't muster up that kinda firepower, it can still be very annoying and effective. In larger games mixing in Terminator blob as cheaper auxiliaries and maybe even some DK's or PsyDreads for flexibility can help to mitigate the problems that plague the list in smaller games. On the plus side, its very cheap to make the army and easy to paint. 

[Aethernitas]

Dividing the possible ways to go when starting GKs into two options consisting of: 'Draigowing' (extremely specific, extremely shallow and inflexible) and 'balanced GKs' which is everything else? Interesting...

[Valerian]

If you wanna go pure Knights, it can be risky in 6th but doable. You basically have two paths; balanced list or Draigowing. Purifier lists kinda died when CSM and Tau got revamped. 

 

For a balanced list, I'd highly recommend a Grandmaster for your HQ. He's great in challenges with a nemesis hammer, he makes other things scoring, and he brings 'Communion' for any Reserves you might have (for example Raven-carried units). Librarians are also a good choice, as both the Knight powers or Divination offer up strong buffs/counters (although you can't mix them, you must choose one or the other). Just go with a single HQ, all of the Knight heroes are expensive. 

 

How would your HQ recommendation(s) change if the player wanted to play "almost pure" Grey Knights, but wasn't averse to running Coteaz and/or an OM Inquisitor?  Would one or both of those immediately take precedence over the Grand Master or Librarian?  I assume so, but perhaps even the bargain that Coteaz is might not make him the no-brainer choice if a player had ruled out including any Henchmen in the list.

 

Valerian

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Dividing the possible ways to go when starting GKs into two options consisting of: 'Draigowing' (extremely specific, extremely shallow and inflexible) and 'balanced GKs' which is everything else? Interesting...

It's pretty accurate I feel. Riptides, IG tanks, Heldrakes, Fire Prisms, Wraithknights...if you're expensive and in PA, you can expect to get torn apart these days. Necrons too can be a problem, between their massed S7 and Doomsday Ark. I've been meching, using my Raven more, going more Termie heavy, bringing in cheaper Allied infantry...I'm still not sure what the answer is. But I can tell you now, going Purifier heavy or Strike heavy is very risky against these newer xenos armies. Their shooting is painful.

How would your HQ recommendation(s) change if the player wanted to play "almost pure" Grey Knights, but wasn't averse to running Coteaz and/or an OM Inquisitor? Would one or both of those immediately take precedence over the Grand Master or Librarian? I assume so, but perhaps even the bargain that Coteaz is might not make him the no-brainer choice if a player had ruled out including any Henchmen in the list.

Most definitely. Coteaz is an auto-include I feel, he's so stupidly good its impossible to not take him unless you have theme restrictions. Inquisitors are great either bare-bones or even the still dirt-cheap Terminator loadout. I've experimented and I find going Coteaz+Inquisitor is better than Grandmaster for the same points. Depends on your list of course, but having two 'Prescience' dudes in the list is huge for Knights. Re-rolls are just about the only thing Knights don't have in abundance, and its a big force multiplier when we have such small numbers of units.

[Sanguis militis]

As an ex blood angels player since the codex came out in fifth, and especially now with 6th Ed.. I absolutely love the :cuss out of storm ravens and of the four grey knights players I've come across (either watching them play or playing with and against them) this one guy runs 3 storm ravens in his list taking up that whole slot and I've yet to see them not make their points back. Like someone said before me, they are one of the strongest fliers out there thanks not only to their durability - 12/12/12 and anti melta rule - but have a great armament as well! TL MM, either TL Las or Asscannons, I think grey knights have the 4 missles too with the (albeit expensive) hurricane sponsons with psy ammo, they are just plain deadly against armor and infantry alike.

 

I feel like they give knights much needed air superiority against most armies with the exception of maybe IG being able to rule the skies against them. Even with skyfire/interceptor rules running 3 of them will almost always guarantee that 2 of them will make it onto the field and that first salvo if shooting from just one is enough to bring down the nastiest your opponent will throw at you. At least as blood angels and from what I've seen happen in this dudes games they prove to be a very dangerous, mostly overwhelming threat for someone to deal with. Probably the only problems I see with running 3 is not being able to take a dread knight or two, or any rifleman dreads, etc, as well as this being very expensive in games under 1500, maybe even 1750.

 

But in the end isn't this game all about fun and personal preference? One day when I have the funds to own and run three of my own again you can bet your last dollar ill be running 3 in my grey knights army. Try out using one, if you have two even better, and if you can borrow another, test out a third in one of your games. I'd love to hear how it worked for you! My blood angels always ruled the skies and that's just how I liked it ;)

[Sanguis militis]

Dividing the possible ways to go when starting GKs into two options consisting of: 'Draigowing' (extremely specific, extremely shallow and inflexible) and 'balanced GKs' which is everything else? Interesting...

It's pretty accurate I feel. Riptides, IG tanks, Heldrakes, Fire Prisms, Wraithknights...if you're expensive and in PA, you can expect to get torn apart these days. Necrons too can be a problem, between their massed S7 and Doomsday Ark. I've been meching, using my Raven more, going more Termie heavy, bringing in cheaper Allied infantry...I'm still not sure what the answer is. But I can tell you now, going Purifier heavy or Strike heavy is very risky against these newer xenos armies. Their shooting is painful.

How would your HQ recommendation(s) change if the player wanted to play "almost pure" Grey Knights, but wasn't averse to running Coteaz and/or an OM Inquisitor? Would one or both of those immediately take precedence over the Grand Master or Librarian? I assume so, but perhaps even the bargain that Coteaz is might not make him the no-brainer choice if a player had ruled out including any Henchmen in the list.

Most definitely. Coteaz is an auto-include I feel, he's so stupidly good its impossible to not take him unless you have theme restrictions. Inquisitors are great either bare-bones or even the still dirt-cheap Terminator loadout. I've experimented and I find going Coteaz+Inquisitor is better than Grandmaster for the same points. Depends on your list of course, but having two 'Prescience' dudes in the list is huge for Knights. Re-rolls are just about the only thing Knights don't have in abundance, and its a big force multiplier when we have such small numbers of units.

Oh, and this. Two divination librarians, especially ones as strong as the two mentioned above are IMO absolutely mandatory. I hate going back to blood angels but its what I know best - divination, prescience especially, was just too damn vital to my army in every single game I played. Grey knights I feel benefit even MORE than my angels did because of the superior firepower and in a lot of cases melee power. Making sure those strong attacks all hit is too good to pass up and I'm a big fan of 2 is better than 1 especially when it comes to how good those two hqs are for the cost. I woulda killed for two librarians like coteaz and the OM Terminator (don't mention mephiston, he fits a totally different role and it sure as hell isn't support unless you say he supports his foot up the enemies ass)